Nylander - In round 2 doing his thing.

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What do we do with Nylander?

  • Re-sign

  • Trade

  • Let walk


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Historically, I think people just get tired of the Big 4 and their flaws:

Nylander is high skill who can give you shockingly low floor effort. But he's clearly not paid like the other three so it's a bit unfair that the expectations are the same. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team.

Depends on your expectations:

If you expect him to be the highest point producer, then that's just stupid. He's paid the 4th most, and should not be expected to score at the same level as Matthews or Marner. Tavares is in year, 5 ?? of 7 on his deal and one would be an idiot to expect Tavares to outproduce a player in the prime of his career with the skillset of Nylander.

However, what every player should always, without fail, be expected to do in the playoffs, is to put in the effort in every shift.

That is non-negotiable.

And you can't, and neither can anyone else, even begin to argue that Nylander has committed to every shift every game. It's not the regular season where all teams play 82 games. It's the time of year where you lose, you may go home.

Maybe we can't expect him to turn into Jere Lehtinen out there, but make a little effort on the back check.
On a similar note, he's never going to be Ovechkin with thunderous hits, but he's a big guy and shows us his strength when protecting the puck, so maybe once in a while he could accidentally brush up against someone else.

These last 2 points are not skill based, they have absolutely nothing to do with the pecking order on the team, and are huge markers for the effort level discharged through a game.

There are no free passes in terms of effort.

Period.

Marner suffers from Little Brother syndrome and in the big games when you have a war going on you have a finger painter trying to lead the troops.

Marner, while being the most creative player, has a ton of flaws in his game. Most noticeably, is his penchant for trying to do too much when things aren't going well.

The 99 point season must have gnawed at him after 2 others in the mid to high 90's as well.

Matthews is always going to be the big brother, and he always wants to show that he's just as worthy of praise.

Defensively, he's really good when he focuses on the defensive game (like while on the penalty kill), but isn't quite as focused on being smart defensively at even strength.

While his shot is not as dreadful as it was, it's still not his forte. He needs to show the shot in order to keep the opponents from cheating off him, but he goes through periods of shaking off good passing opportunities and forcing bad shots.

One thing I noticed last game was that when it wasn't working, Mitch started throwing his body around.
The guy is the size of a hamster, but he's not afraid to throw it out there.

Tavares is turning into a fossil before our eyes and I think a casual would be surprised he's 7 years younger than Giordano.

Tavares is what he always projected to be.
How anyone can be surprised is just baffling to me.

He's a fantastic face-off taker, high skill on the puck, great shooter in tight kind of player.

Tavares was never looked at as a great defender and he's never been a good skater.


Matthews the Mr Everything 2022 who took a big step back at every aspect while getting lapped by most of the upper echelon superstars in the regular season and has been inconsistently effective on this "run."

Matthews didn't score as much this year as he has in the past 2 seasons, but his overall game is by far, the best in the league.

Of all the talk of Barkov, etc, they don't hold a candle to Matthews in terms of what he can do offensively and defensively.

I posted a heat map of all the shots, hits, hits taken, shots blocked, etc of Matthews.

His positioning in the defensive zone is just about perfect, and his chances on offense are also concentrated in the slot.
He has been beyond snakebitten these 2 games with saves off the top of the blocker, off the shaft of the stick, and even a shot along the ice that Bob awkwardly fell onto.

Despite this, 12 playoff game point streak,
He's been physical, blocked a ton of shots, good at the backchecking to break up rushes, and about average at the dot (something he really needs to get better at cheating on).

Of the big guys, Matthews has played closest to his best.
The shots sometimes don't go in, and sometimes they do. That's down to a million factors.
The things outside of the goal scoring are all determined by the player, and he's been top notch on those individual parts of the game.
 
More on my level? What does that mean? I am asking out of curiosity. This is not my language.

Sorry if u got offended. Not my meaning. I got carried away.
The tone and shut up was directed at the mass of fans focusing only on the bad. Or only accept Nylander when he is the best player on the team(he should never be with the three 11mill) . Or not even then because one questionable effort.

What im saying is, you take the good with the bad. Most the time the good overweight the bad, by a good margin. You can wish yourself blue, but you cant change who a player is. What u can do how ever is to give said player biggest chance to succede, and not worse chance to succede. Because if u do you make the team a lot better. And IMO that is the whole point of coaching a team.

Nylander would have been better of playing on a third line the last 20games. Then playing with Tavares(i rather have Tavares on a Third line) . Thats how bad there styles are together. I belive Nylander gets mentaly drained before even stepping on ice knowing how he needs to play with Tavares.

And i think Nylander benifits of being a bit angry. Without being insulted. That is also up to Keefe to solve.

don't apologize
 
That's just silly. Most of Nylander's top flight play when he does engage that extra gear is solo.. that is why he doesn't really mesh with anyone they try him with and also why it is on HIM to play like he can.

True enough, the double digits just can't skate with him, especially Tavares.

And the double digits haven't shown they have an extra gear.

I think it is best he is moved to a team that skates without cheating.
 
Didn't watch the game ...

From everything I've read and seen one player showed he has another gear.

Nylander was by far the best player on the ice according to many reports.

Nylander showed he has that other gear.

How does the team he plays for engage that gear?

Is there a coach that help in that regard?

For the first half of the game this was Nylander's level of commitment:

You'll notice that he knows he's the only player who has any chance at covering the guy coming up the right wing.
He's a few feet behind him as they enter the zone, but Nylander's a great skater and that shouldn't be a deal breaker.

You'll also notice that his last stride is taken when he's at the top of the face-off circles as he enters the slot in front of Samsonov.
As in, for the 20 feet between him and the front of the net, he glides.

The puck comes across the slot for a great scoring chance, and thankfully it goes awry.

Nylander, who hasn't closed the distance due to not skating, lunges forward with his stick to "apply pressure on the pass", but he's well short of being a factor defensively.




And then, magically, at the 12 minute mark of the 2nd period, Nylander became a whole new player.

He didn't let up on a play again, battled through a bunch of instances of being closed off along the boards, and looked like a hound-dog looking for the puck.

The duality is just incredibly infuriating to watch, because we all know he can do it.
He can do it all game long, every game.

It's a choice not to.
 
Historically, I think people just get tired of the Big 4 and their flaws:

Nylander is high skill who can give you shockingly low floor effort. But he's clearly not paid like the other three so it's a bit unfair that the expectations are the same. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team.

Marner suffers from Little Brother syndrome and in the big games when you have a war going on you have a finger painter trying to lead the troops.

Tavares is turning into a fossil before our eyes and I think a casual would be surprised he's 7 years younger than Giordano.

Matthews the Mr Everything 2022 who took a big step back at every aspect while getting lapped by most of the upper echelon superstars in the regular season and has been inconsistently effective on this "run."

Tavares - 11
marner - 10.9
Matthews - 11.6
Rielly - 7.5
Nylander - 6.9

Matthews dropped 21 points in one more game played over last year.
Have to wonder if his injuries have permanently impacted his shooting?
marner scoring dropped by 5 goals in 8 more games.
Tavares still around PPG, and goals back up to mid 30's.
 
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And then, magically, at the 12 minute mark of the 2nd period, Nylander became a whole new player.

He didn't let up on a play again, battled through a bunch of instances of being closed off along the boards, and looked like a hound-dog looking for the puck.

The duality is just incredibly infuriating to watch, because we all know he can do it.
He can do it all game long, every game.

It's a choice not to.

It's almost like he'll let others do the heavy lifting, as he's 5th. on the hierarchy.
He's treated like a middle 6 player, so plays like a middle 6 player.
At the 12 minute mark of the 2nd. period, perhaps he realized the "stars" of the team weren't going to do it.
Kind of like at the World's when he's expected to help lead Sweden, he does. He isn't just another depth player there. He's not treated as a depth player, so he lives up to expectations.

I think he'll do better on his next team.
 
Depends on your expectations:

If you expect him to be the highest point producer, then that's just stupid. He's paid the 4th most, and should not be expected to score at the same level as Matthews or Marner. Tavares is in year, 5 ?? of 7 on his deal and one would be an idiot to expect Tavares to outproduce a player in the prime of his career with the skillset of Nylander.

However, what every player should always, without fail, be expected to do in the playoffs, is to put in the effort in every shift.

That is non-negotiable.

And you can't, and neither can anyone else, even begin to argue that Nylander has committed to every shift every game. It's not the regular season where all teams play 82 games. It's the time of year where you lose, you may go home.

I agree with you in theory that there should be a certain non-negotiable buy in for every player. I think of the Golden Knights as a real tight knit team structure, 20 guys pulling the same way, structured, fast, organized hockey, everyone's kind of a soldier in the trenches for you.

To me though, William Nylander more like Alexei Kovalev on the New York Rangers.

Do I want him to be closer to a Mark Messier? Yeah. But knowing you won't always get that, do you accept his space cadet approach to the game in the 5 spot on the cap pecking order, but any given night he has the raw ability to actually be better, more impactful than a Messier or Leetch? That's sort of the balancing act with Willie, the deal with the devil. And if your answer is, no, this doesn't work and we won't win that cup, I don't think that's the wrong conclusion either.

The force multiplier on Willie's issues is Mitch Marner. He's putting together some Selke recognition, engine of the team, etc. But he's also high and low confidence player with wild swings in his impact. Also a finger painter at times. Also prone to playing little brother hockey when the big boys come to play and being physically intimidaetd. He's on his own special program too and you'd never expect him to do any of the warrior stuff required to win. So we have a second deal with the devil in a guy who you can't really ask to play Vegas Golden Knights style buy in.
 
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It's almost like he'll let others do the heavy lifting, as he's 5th. on the hierarchy.
He's treated like a middle 6 player, so plays like a middle 6 player.
At the 12 minute mark of the 2nd. period, perhaps he realized the "stars" of the team weren't going to do it.
Kind of like at the World's when he's expected to help lead Sweden, he does. He isn't just another depth player there. He's not treated as a depth player, so he lives up to expectations.

I think he'll do better on his next team.

Nylander plays elite when he's playing guilty. That's why they don't hesitate to single him out whereas Mitch needs to be coddled. It's both admirable but like you said infuriating.

Maybe the next step in his career will be getting the boot from Toronto and playing with a permanent chip on his shoulder, a la Kadri. Kind of get kicked out of the nest and realize you're not a golden child with forever to make your mark.
 
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I agree with you in theory that there should be a certain non-negotiable buy in for every player. I think of the Golden Knights as a real tight knit team structure, 20 guys pulling the same way, structured, fast, organized hockey, everyone's kind of a soldier in the trenches for you.

To me though, William Nylander more like Alexei Kovalev on the New York Rangers.

Do I want him to be closer to a Mark Messier? Yeah. But knowing you won't always get that, do you accept his space cadet approach to the game in the 5 spot on the cap pecking order, but any given night he has the raw ability to actually be better, more impactful than a Messier or Leetch? That's sort of the balancing act with Willie, the deal with the devil. And if your answer is, no, this doesn't work and we won't win that cup, I don't think that's the wrong conclusion either.

The force multiplier on Willie's issues is Mitch Marner. He's putting together some Selke recognition, engine of the team, etc. But he's also high and low confidence player with wild swings in his impact. Also a finger painter at times. Also prone to playing little brother hockey when the big boys come to play and being physically intimidaetd. He's on his own special program too and you'd never expect him to do any of the warrior stuff required to win. So we have a second deal with the devil in a guy who you can't really ask to play Vegas Golden Knights style buy in.

And one of them makes 63.% of what the other does.
Or one makes 55% more than the other.

That is a huge difference in compensation.
 
While it's true part of this is on Nylander, players are tools and it's up to coaches to figure out how best to use them.

Kessel had a similar issue as Nylander - Mike Sullivan figured out the solution with him, and it helped lead the Pens to back to back cups

Like someone said above, the solution to Kessel was to shelter him heavily because he was also completely useless defensively and buttery soft. I'm not sure how much more Keefe can do than give Nylander the level of ozone/dzone starts he gets already.

I'm pretty sure Tavares, Matthews and Nylander are heavily slanted towards ozone already.
 
I agree with you in theory that there should be a certain non-negotiable buy in for every player. I think of the Golden Knights as a real tight knit team structure, 20 guys pulling the same way, structured, fast, organized hockey, everyone's kind of a soldier in the trenches for you.

To me though, William Nylander more like Alexei Kovalev on the New York Rangers.

Do I want him to be closer to a Mark Messier? Yeah. But knowing you won't always get that, do you accept his space cadet approach to the game in the 5 spot on the cap pecking order, but any given night he has the raw ability to actually be better, more impactful than a Messier or Leetch? That's sort of the balancing act with Willie, the deal with the devil. And if your answer is, no, this doesn't work and we won't win that cup, I don't think that's the wrong conclusion either.

The force multiplier on Willie's issues is Mitch Marner. He's putting together some Selke recognition, engine of the team, etc. But he's also high and low confidence player with wild swings in his impact. Also a finger painter at times. Also prone to playing little brother hockey when the big boys come to play and being physically intimidaetd. He's on his own special program too and you'd never expect him to do any of the warrior stuff required to win. So we have a second deal with the devil in a guy who you can't really ask to play Vegas Golden Knights style buy in.

Kovalev could have been a top 10 player of all time.

He's a nobody in terms of historical value.

Of the players I have watched, he is right there with Mario for best skillset.

The knock on him was never the ability, it was always the uncertainty of whether he would show up or not.

He should have won a couple of Hart and Richard trophies, and a few cups with NYR and Pitt.

But if you polled hockey people on who the best players were of his Era, he isn't ever even mentioned.

If you poll the same people on who was the most skilled, he's clearly first.

What a f***ing shame.

And Nylander isn't quite as hot and cold and Kovy.

He is not quite as high end, but doesn't disappear for as long. Thus far, Nylander has been a more consistent player and more prone to showing up in big games.

Nylander has also always responded well to the times he's challenged by his coaches.


I won't deny that I have made that connection many times over the last 7 years.

I've also stated publicly that I think Nylander's ceiling is Kessel.

He's a 2 time cup winner and was robbed of a Smythe....I'll take that from Willie as well.

And one of them makes 63.% of what the other does.
Or one makes 55% more than the other.

That is a huge difference in compensation.
Not right now he doesn't.


Every player is making the exact same amount right now.

It's not a matter of who makes more, it's a matter of who is contributing more to the team right now, and helping them win.
 
Like someone said above, the solution to Kessel was to shelter him heavily because he was also completely useless defensively and buttery soft. I'm not sure how much more Keefe can do than give Nylander the level of ozone/dzone starts he gets already.

I'm pretty sure Tavares, Matthews and Nylander are heavily slanted towards ozone already.

Just for reference on Kessel's playoff exploits.

1683397555834.png


Ice time over 2 years.
 
Kovalev could have been a top 10 player of all time.

He's a nobody in terms of historical value.

Of the players I have watched, he is right there with Mario for best skillset.

The knock on him was never the ability, it was always the uncertainty of whether he would show up or not.

He should have won a couple of Hart and Richard trophies, and a few cups with NYR and Pitt.

But if you polled hockey people on who the best players were of his Era, he isn't ever even mentioned.

If you poll the same people on who was the most skilled, he's clearly first.

What a f***ing shame.

And Nylander isn't quite as hot and cold and Kovy.

He is not quite as high end, but doesn't disappear for as long. Thus far, Nylander has been a more consistent player and more prone to showing up in big games.

Nylander has also always responded well to the times he's challenged by his coaches.


I won't deny that I have made that connection many times over the last 7 years.

I've also stated publicly that I think Nylander's ceiling is Kessel.

He's a 2 time cup winner and was robbed of a Smythe....I'll take that from Willie as well.


Not right now he doesn't.


Every player is making the exact same amount right now.

It's not a matter of who makes more, it's a matter of who is contributing more to the team right now, and helping them win.

Yeah, like both Willie and Kovy are wired in a way that you'll never get their peak play without poking, prodding and a lot of headaches.

Like if only he had the heart of a Wendel Clark, he would be the greatest Leaf of all time with that ability.

But the flipside of that is he unique value proposition is he's the 5th highest paid player but also has the raw ability that is arguably better than Matthews or Marner when on full throttle.

That's what gives Toronto its unique skill profile. But also part of the reason why we're a dead head slacker team that doesn't always have respect from the league.

Our Big 4 is basically 3x Good Will Hunting's and one Robin Williams.
 
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Then we expect Acciari to be held to the same standards as Matthews?
In terms of effort?


Yes.

In terms of laying his body on the line and doing the things that he is best suited for, in order to help the team win?

Yes.

In terms of doing the dirty work of delivering hits, taking hits, blocking shots, of the 21 skaters used in 8 games, this is how it looks:


GPNamePenalties DrawnTakeawaysHitsHits TakenShots Blocked
8Acciari06591012
8Schenn16443014
8McCabe24393912
8Matthews28251411
8Tavares0518253
8Kerfoot2718227
2.5Bunting36750
8Marner2107187
8Nylander38282
 
Like someone said above, the solution to Kessel was to shelter him heavily because he was also completely useless defensively and buttery soft. I'm not sure how much more Keefe can do than give Nylander the level of ozone/dzone starts he gets already.

I'm pretty sure Tavares, Matthews and Nylander are heavily slanted towards ozone already.

It's not just sheltering though. Kessel was with guys who didn't compete with him for the puck and could keep up.

The problem with him and Tavares is they play very different styles of game. He works better with Matthews, but the issue there is they're both natural shooters. And the Leafs have been reluctant to try three scoring lines because so far they prefer having a top heavy lineup
 
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Yeah, like both Willie and Kovy are wired in a way that you'll never get their peak play without poking, prodding and a lot of headaches.

Like if only he had the heart of a Wendel Clark, he would be the greatest Leaf of all time with that ability.

But the flipside of that is he unique value proposition is he's the 5th highest paid player but also has the raw ability that is arguably better than Matthews or Marner when on full throttle.

That's what gives Toronto its unique skill profile. But also part of the reason why we're a dead head slacker team that doesn't always have respect from the league.

Our Big 4 is basically 3x Good Will Hunting's and one Robin Williams.

Here's my thing with Nylander:

I see the potential there to be a genuine top 15-20 player in the NHL.
I see the reality of him being a secondary, or tertiary player on every team in the NHL.

Those 2 realities don't line up and the difference between his potential and what he's done is all self-inflicted.

In terms of these playoffs, Nylander has been one of the worst performers in terms of the little things that 3rd and 4th line players usually contribute (hits, blocked shots, etc).

So, we tend to expect that to counter balance that lack of defensive effort, the player will make up for his shortcomings in the offensive zone, right?

In terms of those offensive stats, one player stands out as our best player.
Interestingly, he's also one of the top players in doing the dirty work as well.

NameGPtsChances ForScoring Chances ForHigh Danger Chances ForShots
Matthews51172501735
Tavares4743352430
Nylander2755271736
O'Reilly3927211119
Marner2125318523
Rielly3103714316


What this tells us is that Nylander is in fact the 4th overall offensive contributor offensively.
He's just about dead last in doing the little things.

He doesn't kill penalties or take face-offs.

This also illustrates that Matthews is by a country mile the best and most important player on this team.

It's not even remotely questionable how much better he is as a 200 foot player, than anyone else.
 
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So much praise for a minus 2, pointless player, with sheltered starts, for an awful loss. Man.
Both true and untrue.

Points you can't control. Hitting the post twice and setting up JT and Matthews numerous times and they can't convert is not on Willy

The defensive end is 100% on him.

He was very good on the one side of the puck
 
It's not just sheltering though. Kessel was with guys who didn't compete with him for the puck and could keep up.

The problem with him and Tavares is they play very different styles of game. He works better with Matthews, but the issue there is they're both natural shooters. And the Leafs have been reluctant to try three scoring lines because so far they prefer having a top heavy lineup

I think the much bigger problem is the team isn't prepared to play 60 minutes.

And that isn't a Nylander issue, that is a team issue.

Not being ready to start and not playing to the 20 minute mark.

This is a team wide problem, and singling out any individual is just trying to deflect blame from the root cause issue for the team.
 
Matthews has a equal bit up to his best.He can at his best take over games totaly. Yes he contribute even when he dont score, a lot more then Nylander does. As the lead player on this team he is supposed to, even at his worst. Why singel out Nylander for not playing at his best. When the best players on the team are far from that impactfull that they can be, when they leave everything on the ice. Any time Nylander is the best player on the team we have failed miserably as a team. If the others had stepped up to there best, as Nylander did we would have won.
 
Matthews has a equal bit up to his best.He can at his best take over games totaly. Yes he contribute even when he dont score, a lot more then Nylander does. As the lead player on this team he is supposed to, even at his worst. Why singel out Nylander for not playing at his best. When the best players on the team are far from that impactfull that they can be, when they leave everything on the ice. Any time Nylander is the best player on the team we have failed miserably as a team. If the others had stepped up to there best, as Nylander did we would have won.

Nylander's nickname is Red Herring.

With a queue of Charlatans passing by.
 
Both true and untrue.

Points you can't control. Hitting the post twice and setting up JT and Matthews numerous times and they can't convert is not on Willy

The defensive end is 100% on him.

He was very good on the one side of the puck
Maybe that’s why he is this way, people praise his offensive prowess, even when his effort is easily the worst on the entire team. It’s not even that he’s bad defensively, look at his first half this year, he was great, hustling, disrupting, winning pucks to exit the zone, I was loving him. This is why I’m more angry than usual, you showed me you have it in you Willie, now is when we need it. This guy will always dazzle and his goals absolve the other bullshit, but he’s simply been a liability this playoffs and it’s just lazy, rather than mediocre ability. Anyways he will score again and we will get the “suck it haters” crap, but for me I’ll be looking for some desire on our side of the red line, then I’m back on board with the flow.
 
Here's my thing with Nylander:

I see the potential there to be a genuine top 15-20 player in the NHL.
I see the reality of him being a secondary, or tertiary player on every team in the NHL.

Those 2 realities don't line up and the difference between his potential and what he's done is all self-inflicted.

In terms of these playoffs, Nylander has been one of the worst performers in terms of the little things that 3rd and 4th line players usually contribute (hits, blocked shots, etc).

So, we tend to expect that to counter balance that lack of defensive effort, the player will make up for his shortcomings in the offensive zone, right?

In terms of those offensive stats, one player stands out as our best player.
Interestingly, he's also one of the top players in doing the dirty work as well.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]Pts[/TD]
[TD]Chances For[/TD]
[TD]Scoring Chances For[/TD]
[TD]High Danger Chances For[/TD]
[TD]Shots[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tavares[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nylander[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]O'Reilly[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marner[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rielly[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


What this tells us is that Nylander is in fact the 4th overall offensive contributor offensively.
He's just about dead last in doing the little things.

He doesn't kill penalties or take face-offs.

This also illustrates that Matthews is by a country mile the best and most important player on this team.

It's not even remotely questionable how much better he is as a 200 foot player, than anyone else.

This is why the Marner > Matthews takes don't make any sense to me. Matthews isn't even shooting the puck to 60% of his full ability since last season and he's still quite clearly the best player on the team.
 
Maybe that’s why he is this way, people praise his offensive prowess, even when his effort is easily the worst on the entire team. It’s not even that he’s bad defensively, look at his first half this year, he was great, hustling, disrupting, winning pucks to exit the zone, I was loving him. This is why I’m more angry than usual, you showed me you have it in you Willie, now is when we need it. This guy will always dazzle and his goals absolve the other bullshit, but he’s simply been a liability this playoffs and it’s just lazy, rather than mediocre ability. Anyways he will score again and we will get the “suck it haters” crap, but for me I’ll be looking for some desire on our side of the red line, then I’m back on board with the flow.

It will be nice for everyone when he is gone.
 
Here's my thing with Nylander:

I see the potential there to be a genuine top 15-20 player in the NHL.
I see the reality of him being a secondary, or tertiary player on every team in the NHL.

Those 2 realities don't line up and the difference between his potential and what he's done is all self-inflicted.

Yeah I think Nylander has the raw skill to be a Top 15 player in the league as well and it's frustrating as hell that he can't piece it all together... But you also have to remember he's not paid that way and we have 4 guys who earn more money than he does.

When things are firing on all cylinders, it means we have a guy waiting in the weeds who can give a Top 15 player knockout punch. That's Phil Kessel in Pittsburgh behind Crosby, Malkin and Letang territory.

You know why we have such a big problem with Nylander? It's largely because of John Tavares. To put it lightly, Tavares isn't an $11 million impact forward under any circumstances. So when the team pays them both a combined salary of $18 million and rolls them out on a line together, you're basically running a duo that averages $9 million in salary each. That's outside of Nylander's pay grade so you naturally demand more and more for him to compensate.

Put it another way. If our Big 4 was something like Matthews, Draisaitl, Marner and Nylander no one would have nearly the same issue with Willie, flaws and all.

What you re-sign Nylander for is an entirely different question. If he's coming in at around $8 million, it's still okay. But if he's inching towards Matthew Tkachuk money at $9.5 million then that's kind of a problem.
 

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