Nylander - In round 2 doing his thing.

[Menzinger]

So much hate for a player that is faaaaar from the sole reason we lost.

Keefe on the other hand can insert his gameplan in a orifice of his choice on himself and then contenplate his carrer choice. The players need to play better , but hell, the coach are supposed to make things easier not way harder.

Why a fourth line at all when trailing in the third. Why why why a Tavares/Nylander combo. Why not Nylander on pp1 when hot(or any other hot player 4 the day) . How hard can it be.

It might not work anyway. But we will never know because he tries the same thing over and over.

Yep, again, it's strange singling out Nylander for particular criticism when there's enough to go round the rest of the core forwards that game. Nylander at the very least was actually generating quality chances in that third period more so than anyone.

Team just needs a bit of puck luck next game and one of those post shots goes in

 

[saffronleaf]

He made it look easy, while the rest of the Leafs made Florida look like early 2000s Devils.

That's what game breaking speed does. Marner looked like he was skating in quicksand... His back gets progressively more humped over as the game went on. Really ugly skater. Maybe Marner is being overplayed but towards the end of last game he was really struggling to move.

ok but at least he's a neotenous local

 

[ZEBROA]

Will gets the criticism he deserves, he's not being singled out. He has a bad habit of going into float mode when he needs to turn it up. It has been a knock on him since his days in Sweden both Jr and SEL, conversely he also gets the kind of praise he deserves when he gets the arses out of the seats and the chins on chests. He is probably the best skater on the team, his wrist shot is second best on the team, his HockeyQ and ability to make plays are in the top 10 percentile in the league but for some reason he's never finished in the leagues top 10 of point getters.

It's strange no? Why is that does anyone think, is it just plain old bad luck, yeah that must be it, just darned old bad luck.

His getting crap ratio is bigger then the average player on the team. Oh he missed going to the net. He didnt take his guy. He always get these out of context stupid takes others dont. While doin the same sht. Mostly because people dont fkn understand the player he is. Yes he cheats on D to get better O chances. Or shut passing lanes instead of going in to the board. Will not change. Accept and shut the fk up. Like bein mad on a donkey for not being a boar. Give him tools to succede(not Tavares someone faast) . Be happy.

 

[sunstersun]

That 6 on 5 is a perfect example of Willy getting random crap.

Willy is actually doing ok, but realistically all 5 players are doing a bad job, yet we single out one dude lol. Then we accuse him of looking like he doesn't care? Meanwhile, afterwards he puts up the most dominant period of hockey of any Leaf this entire playoffs.

 

[freshwind]

these threads nothing if not entertaining ...
i have to honestly say i lay a large % of the blame on keefe but it does raise some questions in my mind .. for those that can remember past the last game or series during the season when wlliie was playing with auston he was leading the team in scoring and i am pretty sure he was 2nd in +/- ... hardly a defensive liability
keefe switched it up to get marner going and took willie off of pp1 ...
people will come on here and say "if he is a pro he would just play"
these guys are people too .. you cannot tell me if it was you it wouldn't piss you off?
previous years we were told to lay off marner or matthews for their playoffs because their xGF was great... why not the same benefit of the doubt for nylander after game 1? i saw he led both teams in xGF .. don't know about game 2, I don't generally follow those stats ... i am an old dog and i don't want to learn any new tricks
personally i would move on from keefe and marner regardless of the playoff success or lack thereof ... i have felt that way during the season and still do ... marner's potential new contract scares me far more than matthews or nylander
the position is not one of who is better, who i like or don't like but rather is what i feel is best for the team
i am okay with a discussion about this but not interested in a fanboy debate .. last one i got in to i was told i was an idiot because i didn't agree with the other poster ... too old for that crap and have seen it all as a leaf fan

 

[ULF_55]

Trade him to a team of his choice where he will sign an extension.

See if he would go to Canucks.

 

[Stephen]

Yep, again, it's strange singling out Nylander for particular criticism when there's enough to go round the rest of the core forwards that game. Nylander at the very least was actually generating quality chances in that third period more so than anyone.

Team just needs a bit of puck luck next game and one of those post shots goes in

Historically, I think people just get tired of the Big 4 and their flaws:

Nylander is high skill who can give you shockingly low floor effort. But he's clearly not paid like the other three so it's a bit unfair that the expectations are the same. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team.

Marner suffers from Little Brother syndrome and in the big games when you have a war going on you have a finger painter trying to lead the troops.

Tavares is turning into a fossil before our eyes and I think a casual would be surprised he's 7 years younger than Giordano.

Matthews the Mr Everything 2022 who took a big step back at every aspect while getting lapped by most of the upper echelon superstars in the regular season and has been inconsistently effective on this "run."

 

[PROUD PAPA]

these threads nothing if not entertaining ...
i have to honestly say i lay a large % of the blame on keefe but it does raise some questions in my mind .. for those that can remember past the last game or series during the season when wlliie was playing with auston he was leading the team in scoring and i am pretty sure he was 2nd in +/- ... hardly a defensive liability
keefe switched it up to get marner going and took willie off of pp1 ...
people will come on here and say "if he is a pro he would just play"
these guys are people too .. you cannot tell me if it was you it wouldn't piss you off?
previous years we were told to lay off marner or matthews for their playoffs because their xGF was great... why not the same benefit of the doubt for nylander after game 1? i saw he led both teams in xGF .. don't know about game 2, I don't generally follow those stats ... i am an old dog and i don't want to learn any new tricks
personally i would move on from keefe and marner regardless of the playoff success or lack thereof ... i have felt that way during the season and still do ... marner's potential new contract scares me far more than matthews or nylander
the position is not one of who is better, who i like or don't like but rather is what i feel is best for the team
i am okay with a discussion about this but not interested in a fanboy debate .. last one i got in to i was told i was an idiot because i didn't agree with the other poster ... too old for that crap and have seen it all as a leaf fan

Too big of a fan base to have everyone on the same page and too passionate to be on our best behaviour all the time. It used to piss me off too but I enjoy meaningful hockey discussion. I manage the bullshit mainly by recognizing the usual suspects and scrolling on by. It helps.

 

[ULF_55]

Historically, I think people just get tired of the Big 4 and their flaws:

Nylander is high skill who can give you shockingly low floor effort. But he's clearly not paid like the other three so it's a bit unfair that the expectations are the same. He's the 4th highest paid player on the team.

Marner suffers from Little Brother syndrome and in the big games when you have a war going on you have a finger painter trying to lead the troops.

Tavares is turning into a fossil before our eyes and I think a casual would be surprised he's 7 years younger than Giordano.

Matthews the Mr Everything 2022 who took a big step back at every aspect while getting lapped by most of the upper echelon superstars in the regular season and has been inconsistently effective on this "run."

Nylander is 5th highest paid player.

4th. highest forward.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Nylander clearly dominated the last 15 mins of the game. It just raises more questions about him. Where is that guy 90% of the time ? I give him no credit for game 2 effort. If that Nylander shows up for the next 4 games, we will win 4 in a row. Matthews is also, not competing.

 

[therealkoho]

His getting crap ratio is bigger then the average player on the team. Oh he missed going to the net. He didnt take his guy. He always get these out of context stupid takes others dont. While doin the same sht. Mostly because people dont fkn understand the player he is. Yes he cheats on D to get better O chances. Or shut passing lanes instead of going in to the board. Will not change. Accept and shut the fk up. Like bein mad on a donkey for not being a boar. Give him tools to succede(not Tavares someone faast) . Be happy.

No how bout you, and you can save that tone for somebody more on your level

You can accept a guy who won't when he just doesn't feel like it even though he can any time he seemingly wants to.

 

[ZEBROA]

No how bout you, and you can save that tone for somebody more on your level

You can accept a guy who won't when he just doesn't feel like it even though he can any time he seemingly wants to.

More on my level? What does that mean? I am asking out of curiosity. This is not my language.

Sorry if u got offended. Not my meaning. I got carried away.
The tone and shut up was directed at the mass of fans focusing only on the bad. Or only accept Nylander when he is the best player on the team(he should never be with the three 11mill) . Or not even then because one questionable effort.

What im saying is, you take the good with the bad. Most the time the good overweight the bad, by a good margin. You can wish yourself blue, but you cant change who a player is. What u can do how ever is to give said player biggest chance to succede, and not worse chance to succede. Because if u do you make the team a lot better. And IMO that is the whole point of coaching a team.

Nylander would have been better of playing on a third line the last 20games. Then playing with Tavares(i rather have Tavares on a Third line) . Thats how bad there styles are together. I belive Nylander gets mentaly drained before even stepping on ice knowing how he needs to play with Tavares.

And i think Nylander benifits of being a bit angry. Without being insulted. That is also up to Keefe to solve.

 

[notDatsyuk]

These takes are hilarious. Bench the most creative player they have on the PP. Sure thing, coach.

Marner does need to shoot more often to keep the opposition from assuming pass, but he actually did get a bunch of shots last game so...

Keefe has already dropped him to the second unit.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This just in, a back to back 30 goal scorer can't shoot.

There is zero chance of Marner coming off PP1 so why even debate it?

Nylander should probably move up and one of Tavares and ROR should drop down since they are basically the same player on the PP anyways.

Since ROR is doing much better on faceoffs, particularly on the PP, I'd say JT is the one to drop.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I agree. 91 should come off the PP for 88. He is so good at controlled entries, which incidentally is the biggest problem with the powerplay.

Also had the kucherov like “will he shoot or pass” going on which sets up easy tap in’s all the time.

I wonder what goes through Nylander’s head when he has the game of his life, but is stuck playing with 91, and only gets 18 minutes while his buddies play 27 minutes.

Hard not to get a little mentally checked out. Remember how good 88 always is when Matthews is hurt? He steps up when he is needed.

Keefe not only limits his ice time, but strips him off PP1 when he has been dominant on it all year, and plays him with 91 which has been a dog shit combo for two years now.

I’d be pissed if I was 88 quite frankly.

I could give a f*ck about 91 not getting points if not on PP. End of the day he does very little but shovel home loose pucks. Take him off.

JT was acquired by Dubas, and has an $11M NMC contract given him by Dubas.

Keefe wouldn't dare take him off PP1 or limit his time or drop him to the third line. Willy is the only one who makes JT look even tolerable at ES, so Keefe has to put them together.

That's the only logical reason I can find.

 

[studebaker17]

ROR and Tavares both create net front presense that none of the others including Nylander do . Without screens and havok in front of the net you're not going to just fire the puck and beat the goalies clean no matter how good the shooter is.

Rielly is probably the most expendable on the PP but you're not going all forwards , that was a pretty big fail . So if not him then probably Mathews would be the guy to take out for nylander and i doubt that would happen or should .

Marners pretty elite at zone entries as well although i get sick of watching the stupid drop back play every single time from Rielly . Maybe mix it up some once in while .

Nylander is the bonofide quarterback on PP2 , think myself he just needs more mins and another skilled guy on his unit so maybe swap 0'Rielly or Mathews with bunting on the 2 units . Knies would of gave them a lot better an option . Then coach needs to run the PP that's hotter more .
All that said , the PP isn't even bad as is . It's above average . The thing that kills the leafs pp when it runs dry is always the same thing . to much passing around the outside and not enough crashing the net .

 

[studebaker17]

JT was acquired by Dubas, and has an $11M NMC contract given him by Dubas.

Keefe wouldn't dare take him off PP1 or limit his time or drop him to the third line. Willy is the only one who makes JT look even tolerable at ES, so Keefe has to put them together.

That's the only logical reason I can find.

Holy conspiracy theory lol. Dubas's job is on the line as well as Keefe's so he'll wnat Keefe to win any which way it takes . This is professional sports .
Aside from that Tavares is pretty damn good on the pp . I can buy into the fact maybe split Nylander and Tavares up 5 on 5 and Nylander would actually thrive on 3rd line with Kerfoot and maybe Lafferty or Acciari . They'd be a matchup hell for the opposition having 3 lines . One of them will be getting tired 1st or 2nd pairing d or 3rd pairings .
Also not opposed to moving Marner onto JT's line in that scenario then all 3 big guns are separate . Can't cover them all . At least with Marner on Tavares line it's not a black hole defensively .

 

[DarkKnight]

There’s a 12 goal difference between Nylander and Marner, even strength goals against, and people here actually think he’s being unfairly singled out. Perhaps reaccess your bias, others are just noticing reality. It’s funny too, nobody had any problem pointing out this stuff with Holl, or Gio of late for that matter. I’d add, the discrepancy is even more appalling when you factor in Bill leads forwards in offensive zone starts, literally tilting the ice to lower the probabiltiy for goals against and heighten goals for.

This place is tedious, he’s been garbage defensively, his effort is appalling at times, nobody wants to see it. I want maximum Bill, all over the ice, you’ll never here another peep from me.

 

[studebaker17]

these threads nothing if not entertaining ...
i have to honestly say i lay a large % of the blame on keefe but it does raise some questions in my mind .. for those that can remember past the last game or series during the season when wlliie was playing with auston he was leading the team in scoring and i am pretty sure he was 2nd in +/- ... hardly a defensive liability
keefe switched it up to get marner going and took willie off of pp1 ...
people will come on here and say "if he is a pro he would just play"
these guys are people too .. you cannot tell me if it was you it wouldn't piss you off?
previous years we were told to lay off marner or matthews for their playoffs because their xGF was great... why not the same benefit of the doubt for nylander after game 1? i saw he led both teams in xGF .. don't know about game 2, I don't generally follow those stats ... i am an old dog and i don't want to learn any new tricks
personally i would move on from keefe and marner regardless of the playoff success or lack thereof ... i have felt that way during the season and still do ... marner's potential new contract scares me far more than matthews or nylander
the position is not one of who is better, who i like or don't like but rather is what i feel is best for the team
i am okay with a discussion about this but not interested in a fanboy debate .. last one i got in to i was told i was an idiot because i didn't agree with the other poster ... too old for that crap and have seen it all as a leaf fan

Keefe switched it up not to get Marner going , he was already the hottest leaf player for a while at that point. He switched it to try and get Matty going somehow . Nylander and Mathews together wasn't great imo. Nylander was playing great and was just masking the fact that Matty wasn't .
Why he was taken off pp1 had more to do with O'Rielly than anything else . That and Nylander makes PP2 relevent .

 

[notDatsyuk]

ROR and Tavares both create net front presense that none of the others including Nylander do . Without screens and havok in front of the net you're not going to just fire the puck and beat the goalies clean no matter how good the shooter is.

Rielly is probably the most expendable on the PP but you're not going all forwards , that was a pretty big fail . So if not him then probably Mathews would be the guy to take out for nylander and i doubt that would happen or should .

Marners pretty elite at zone entries as well although i get sick of watching the stupid drop back play every single time from Rielly . Maybe mix it up some once in while .

Nylander is the bonofide quarterback on PP2 , think myself he just needs more mins and another skilled guy on his unit so maybe swap 0'Rielly or Mathews with bunting on the 2 units . Knies would of gave them a lot better an option . Then coach needs to run the PP that's hotter more .
All that said , the PP isn't even bad as is . It's above average . The thing that kills the leafs pp when it runs dry is always the same thing . to much passing around the outside and not enough crashing the net .

Two "net front presence" doesn't really help if two of the three others won't shoot but are content to just pass it around the outside. Willy in place of either JT or ROR gives you two skilled passers as well as two shooters, and you still have one "net front presence".

But I agree Willy makes the second unit much more dangerous just by himself.

 

[thewave]

He made it look easy, while the rest of the Leafs made Florida look like early 2000s Devils.

That's what game breaking speed does. Marner looked like he was skating in quicksand... His back gets progressively more humped over as the game went on. Really ugly skater. Maybe Marner is being overplayed but towards the end of last game he was really struggling to move.

Keefe barely rested them going in and lets be honest, our team does not have the best work ethic either. When they need more energy it's not there or it's only there for short spurts. More often than not we are being outworked. Why would that be?

Personally if we lose this series they whole organization needs a real top to bottom overhaul. It's the only way, they need to have a lean organization with as few perks and luxuries as possible. Make Toronto into a middle of the road team as far as luxury with a focus on work.

 

[ULF_55]

Didn't watch the game ...

From everything I've read and seen one player showed he has another gear.

Nylander was by far the best player on the ice according to many reports.

Nylander showed he has that other gear.

How does the team he plays for engage that gear?

Is there a coach that help in that regard?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Didn't watch the game ...

From everything I've read and seen one player showed he has another gear.

Nylander was by far the best player on the ice according to many reports.

Nylander showed he has that other gear.

How does the team he plays for engage that gear?

Is there a coach that help in that regard?

That's just silly. Most of Nylander's top flight play when he does engage that extra gear is solo.. that is why he doesn't really mesh with anyone they try him with and also why it is on HIM to play like he can.

 

[Menzinger]

That's just silly. Most of Nylander's top flight play when he does engage that extra gear is solo.. that is why he doesn't really mesh with anyone they try him with and also why it is on HIM to play like he can.

While it's true part of this is on Nylander, players are tools and it's up to coaches to figure out how best to use them.

Kessel had a similar issue as Nylander - Mike Sullivan figured out the solution with him, and it helped lead the Pens to back to back cups

 

[studebaker17]

While it's true part of this is on Nylander, players are tools and it's up to coaches to figure out how best to use them.

Kessel had a similar issue as Nylander - Mike Sullivan figured out the solution with him, and it helped lead the Pens to back to back cups

Sullivan's solution was 3rd line away from top checkers and top d pairings . Exactly why Nylander should also be on a fast skating 3rd line .