Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

[leaffaninvancouver]

Why not sign him for a 1 year deal and let him prove he's worth 8.5?

Because that would be stupid and the Leafs would lose all their leverage as he would make at least 8.5 going forward?

 

[Faltorvo]

How?

Matthews outproduced Eichel in his first two seasons by good margins. He has far better stats. The cap has gone up.

Why would he sign for the same?

he has????

i see 13 points and 7 points ,,, is that what you call good margins?

 

[hyduK]

I dont think he means bar = ceiling. Bar to me sounds like the floor. he's def worth more than Eichel, but shouldnt be near McDavid until he wins an Art Ross & Hart.

I'd agree he shouldn't get as much as McDavid.

But with an increased cap and the difference in production from Eichel, assuming his season goes as expected, he's certainly closer to McDavid money than Eichel.

 

[Wanderson]

Nylander is high if he thinks he’s worth 8.5M a year.

Solution: sign him to a 1 year deal, play him on Kadri’s line for the year, then renegotiate again and see what the numbers say then.

He can use the Draisaitl comparison all he wants. Draisaitl had better numbers, and he only got that contract because Edmonton management is incompetent. Most comparable contracts are in the 6-7M range.

If I’m going to buy a house and in the last two months 1 similar house sold for $800k but 4 similar houses sold for $500k, I’m paying for that $500k comparable.

Why should Nylander do that? He wants to sign a long-term contract now.

 

[Scott Stevens]

He should follow Shannahan's example and sign an offer-sheet....
I do find it funny that Shanahan preaches that the Wing players all took discounts to keep the team together but he jumped for the money when he came off his 1st contract....

Is it documented anywhere that any of them took any discounts? It was an uncapped league back then and I don’t remember the pizza man ever crying poor.

DO AS I SAY WILLIE NOT AS I DO

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Because that would be stupid and the Leafs would lose all their leverage as he would make at least 8.5 going forward?

So essentially you're saying that Nylander should take a pay cut no matter what?

 

[Wanderson]

RFA vs UFA. Tavares signed for 5 mill after scoring 81 in 82 games.

... in 2012.

 

[hyduK]

he has????

i see 13 points and 7 points ,,, is that what you call good margins?

Matthews had 132 points in 2 seasons.
Eichel had 113.

Matthews played two more games so lets call it 130 to keep it simple.

That's 17 more points in the first two seasons. 15% more points than Eichel had.

So yeah. That's a good margin. 15% more salary would put him > 12m.

And that's not even factoring in that goals are worth more than assists.

 

[Nizdizzle]

He should follow Shannahan's example and sign an offer-sheet....
I do find it funny that Shanahan preaches that the Wing players all took discounts to keep the team together but he jumped for the money when he came off his 1st contract....

Leafs would likely be fine with that. Going by what HF and Dreger have been suggestong, we'll be getting multiple 1st rounders back.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

So essentially you're saying that Nylander should take a pay cut no matter what?

How is not signing him for 8.5 million a paycut? I doubt Nylander wants a one year deal either, what happens if he breaks his leg? Players take less money for more term because it's guaranteed money.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

So essentially you're saying that Nylander should take a pay cut no matter what?

I’m not sure if you two are saying same thing.

I think you meant he takes 1 year deal and earns 8.5

Whereas he thinks you meant 8.5 for 1 year which sets qualifying offer at 8.5.

 

[Eat The Rich]

We appreciate you saying this. In any Matthews vs Eichel thread, you will find a ton of "liked" comments saying how Eichel is the better player of the 2.

That only applies to contract negotiations. When it comes time for those, the Leafs have the best damn team ever assembled who will all demand the highest salaries in the NHL. Any other time they're a lottery team at best.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Explain to me how Eichel is the bar for Matthews?

Matthews has a 40g/69p Rookie season. Eichel was 24g/56p.
Matthews had 34g/63p in 62g in his sophomore. Eichel had 24/57 in 61gp.
Eichel had 25g/65p in 64gp in his third season. Matthews will likely be above that unless he regresses significantly.

How is Eichel the ceiling for Matthews when he has outproduced him at every step?

Your numbers are wrong for Eichel. His 3rd season he had 64 points in 67 games. Not 65 points in 64 games.

 

[danfromwaterloo]

Here's how the calculus plays out:

Nylander is not - by any stretch - a proven commodity. He's a young player who has three years in the league, and two straight 61 point seasons. If he thinks he's getting 8.5M he's dreaming, and the Leafs should trade him.

If he's doing the math properly, he should notice that playing on the Leafs this year should drastically elevate his point totals. 80 points is within reach. If he signs a bridge at 6.5M for two or three years, and shows the league that he's an 80 point player, he'll be able to sign an 8.5-9M a year deal for significant term. He should view the next two years as fertile ground to prove his actual worth to the league. His belief that he is somehow a proven player is misguided.

If he doesn't sign in the next week to 10 days, the Leafs should move him out - to send the message to Marner that we won't be bullied next year. Matthews will get paid because he is proven.

 

[mashedpotato]

It's easier to spot the delusional ones from the other side in these types of threads though.

There's nothing delusional about expecting that management can / will resolve a contract negotiation that is entirely in their favor.

 

[hyduK]

That only applies to contract negotiations. When it comes time for those, the Leafs have the best damn team ever assembled who will all demand the highest salaries in the NHL. Any other time they're a lottery team at best.

Good thing we actually have cold hard numbers for salary negotiations. Matthews produced 15% more points over his first two seasons than Eichel. That's 1.575m worth of salary.

 

[hyduK]

Your numbers are wrong for Eichel. His 3rd season he had 64 points in 67 games. Not 65 points in 64 games.

My bad.

Matthews is gonna be making bank it looks like if Eichel is what he's being compared against.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Realistically, how much should Nylander, Marner and Matthews sign for if they take discounts?

After that...ask yourself if they will sign for that much.

I think we'll end up seeing Matthews at 11, Marner at 8 and Nylander at 7 million.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Matthews had 132 points in 2 seasons.
Eichel had 113.

Matthews played two more games so lets call it 130 to keep it simple.

That's 17 more points in the first two seasons. 15% more points than Eichel had.

So yeah. That's a good margin. 15% more salary would put him > 12m.

And that's not even factoring in that goals are worth more than assists.

Matthews produced 79% of what Mcdavid did in his 1st 2 seasons, so he should only get $9.8 (79% of Mcdavid's deal), no? This is your logic here, so it should hold up.

 

[Eat The Rich]

Good thing we actually have cold hard numbers for salary negotiations. Matthews produced 15% more points over his first two seasons than Eichel. That's 1.575m worth of salary.

I'm not arguing that.

I just think it's hilarious that nobody gives any Leaf player proper credit until it's contract time.

 

[hyduK]

Matthews produced 79% of what Mcdavid did in his 1st 2 seasons, so he should only get $9.8 (79% of Mcdavid's deal), no? This is your logic here, so it should hold up.

If Dubas can swing that I'm sure it'd be great.

Doubt it happens though.

And I was just pointing out that the difference in their production was in fact significant.

 

[Faltorvo]

Matthews had 132 points in 2 seasons.
Eichel had 113.

Matthews played two more games so lets call it 130 to keep it simple.

That's 17 more points in the first two seasons. 15% more points than Eichel had.

So yeah. That's a good margin. 15% more salary would put him > 12m.

And that's not even factoring in that goals are worth more than assists.

lmfao, so, so ,so lemme get this straight

a 8.5p more on average is a "good margin"?

and goal scoring matters, ok, got it.

 

[hyduK]

lmfao, so, so ,so lemme get this straight

a 8.5p more on average is a "good margin"?

and goal scoring matters, ok, got it.

Ugh yeah...it is a pretty good margin in a league where 100p is a huge season.

Again, it's 15%. That's not an insignificant amount.

 

[GodEmperor]

DO THE RIGHT THING WILLIE

If the right thing is earning less, making a lesser legacy and destroying lifetime earning potential so he can earn the same amount (if he actually hustled to get endorsements) or even less, than yeah do the right thing and get traded out of Hockey mecca to an irrelevant market.

 

[KlefDown]

I think the problem is Leafs want to sign Nylander for 8 years but only pay him in the typical 5-6 year contract range.