Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

[hyduK]

shanny is talking about willi taking a discount from his 8m per demand.

How do you know that? Do you know what he's been offered?

 

[Faltorvo]

The players care about the actual dollars. The team cares about the actual cap hit. I'm sure Nylander would love to structure a deal that pays him $10 million this season in signing bonus money. Why aren't the Leafs doing it?

who in gawds name is saying they are not?

 

[Tavares to Marner]

How do you establish that value for Matthews when Tavares got 11m?

Matthews already has one season as a 40 goal scorer, another where he was on pace for that. Over PPG pace in his second season. Unless he takes regresses this year, he's worth as much or more than Tavares (who btw has never scored 40g in his career).

RFA and UFA

UFA Matthews could pull 13M minimum

 

[Nizdizzle]

How do you establish that value for Matthews when Tavares got 11m?

Matthews already has one season as a 40 goal scorer, another where he was on pace for that. Over PPG pace in his second season. Unless he takes regresses this year, he's worth as much or more than Tavares (who btw has never scored 40g in his career).

Tavares was a UFA, Matthews is a RFA. They are nowhere near the same situation. Eichel is a much closer barometer for Matthews than Eichel.

 

[The Podium]

How do you establish that value for Matthews when Tavares got 11m?

Matthews already has one season as a 40 goal scorer, another where he was on pace for that. Over PPG pace in his second season. Unless he takes regresses this year, he's worth as much or more than Tavares (who btw has never scored 40g in his career).

RFA vs UFA. Tavares signed for 5 mill after scoring 81 in 82 games.

 

[hyduK]

RFA and UFA

Has nothing to do with it any more.

Eichel signed > 10m as an RFA. McDavid too.

That's the bracket Matthews is in. The rules have changed.

He's already worth as much as Tavares. If he has a good year this year he can easily ask for 11.5-12m, and he should.

 

[KlefDown]

6M for hall is disgustingly good, this guy is gonna have another monster season for sure

Matthews contract is gonna set the basis for the entire NHLs youngsters I feel, gonna be huge in separating that 2nd gap of stars from McDavid

Malkin makes more than Crosby.
Not all contracts are same and decided by skill level/gaps

That's why Schiefele at 6.125 for 8 years is the biggest steal of a contract in the NHL. His agent should be fired.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Nylander is high if he thinks he’s worth 8.5M a year.

Solution: sign him to a 1 year deal, play him on Kadri’s line for the year, then renegotiate again and see what the numbers say then.

He can use the Draisaitl comparison all he wants. Draisaitl had better numbers, and he only got that contract because Edmonton management is incompetent. Most comparable contracts are in the 6-7M range.

If I’m going to buy a house and in the last two months 1 similar house sold for $800k but 4 similar houses sold for $500k, I’m paying for that $500k comparable.

 

[GodEmperor]

What people don't get is that we can't pay Nylander 8 not because in a vacuum it's the end of the world, but because of how it reflects on Marner and Matthews, if Nylander is worth 8 (which he's not and Drai doesn't justify him being worth 8 considering everyone knows Drai isn't worth 8 either) then Marner is worth 10 and Matthews 12.

The Shanahan comments add another layer to this as well, I thought that this whole thing was being done to save a bit of cap money and everyone was in on it, then they would settle at something reasonable like 6.33-7, however it appears that Nylander is actually being delusional.

If that is the case, I would immediately start looking to trade him, he can earn 8 in some bumf*** market where NOBODY cares about Hockey and he will effectively get ZERO endorsements foregoing the tens of millions he could make in Toronto if he has even a bit of hustle or if the Leafs ever won the cup and he wouldn't pay to dine in the city for the rest of his life considering he and others would go down as Gods.

If he's effectively holding the team hostage with his nonsense, we don't need morons on the team, he and his father should know better of all people, so he can have a bit more up front money and give up legacy and down the line money considering if you win the cup in Toronto you can make easy advertisement money for the rest of your life.

 

[Tavares to Marner]

Has nothing to do with it any more.

Eichel signed > 10m as an RFA. McDavid too.

That's the bracket Matthews is in. The rules have changed.

He's already worth as much as Tavares. If he has a good year this year he can easily ask for 11.5-12m, and he should.

that's cause 10.5 is worth it for Eichel as would it be for Matthews

 

[Iceman]

Matthews is going to want at least 10.5 million a season next year. For Shanahan to suggest he should take a discount, while the team goes out and makes Tavares the highest paid player this season is laughable.

I predict both Marner and Matthews hold out next year. Maybe Nylander joins them.

Safe to say at least $11m.

 

[hyduK]

RFA vs UFA. Tavares signed for 5 mill after scoring 81 in 82 games.

The cap was much lower then.

He never scored 40g by that point (Matthews will have at least once, probably twice, and another at pace for it). Goals are worth more than assists.

Matthews outproduced him in his first two seasons already (probably will this season too).

RFA rules have changed (see Eichel, McDavid).

He's an 11.5-12m player in today's world. Assuming he keeps his production.

 

[Nizdizzle]

Has nothing to do with it any more.

Eichel signed > 10m as an RFA. McDavid too.

That's the bracket Matthews is in. The rules have changed.

He's already worth as much as Tavares. If he has a good year this year he can easily ask for 11.5-12m, and he should.

It has everything to do with it. Any Hockey insider will tell you the same. UFA contracts and RFA contracts are two very different things.

 

[hyduK]

that's cause 10.5 is worth it for Eichel as would it be for Matthews

How?

Matthews outproduced Eichel in his first two seasons by good margins. He has far better stats. The cap has gone up.

Why would he sign for the same?

 

[Saekk]

I'm guessing you're one of those unobjective leaf haters I was referring to.

I'm not suggested thaaaaaat we did - I'm suggesting thaaat we will.

[mod]

It's easier to spot the delusional ones from the other side in these types of threads though.

 

[LighthouseKeepr]

Taking less money at 11m after you've already made a decent bank in your career is different than asking someone who's in the 6-7m range to take a discount though.

Also consider that Tavares has a lot more endorsement opportunity than Nylander. He's the hometown boy and Nylander is 4th on the team in terms of endorsements.

He is 22 years of age and he has the option to put his ink onto a piece of paper and he is GUARANTEED to be paid $50 MILLION+ (6.25x8) with the potential to make even millions more when this contract expires eight years from now!

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

How?

Matthews outproduced Eichel in his first two seasons by good margins. He has far better stats. The cap has gone up.

Why would he sign for the same?

Why is UFA vs RFA so hard to understand?

 

[Iceman]

is a bridge deal inevitable at this point?

Well, what is considered a bridge deal? The only type of bridge deal I can see Nylander signing would be a 1 year contract but I doubt neither party really want that, particularly not the Leafs who might see him ask for $9m after this season. Not saying they should give him $8m now though.

 

[hyduK]

It has everything to do with it. Any Hockey insider will tell you the same. UFA contracts and RFA contracts are two very different things.

Hockey insiders as in the Leafs fans living in lala land where their players sign discounts for the privilege of playing for the storied franchise that hasn't won in 50 years?

Because Eichel and McDavid contracts say differently.

 

[hyduK]

Why is UFA vs RFA so hard to understand?

Why is the fact that McDavid got 12.5 as an RFA and Eichel 10.5 hard to understand?

Eichel was an RFA when he signed that 10.5.

Matthews has outproduced Eichel.

They are in the same situation with Matthews having better production. Matthews can negotiate for at least 11.5 if he wants.

 

[KlefDown]

Youre exact quote was



He was worth max, offered lass than max, and asked for ever less than what was offered. You must have not liked that.

man that makes no sense.
McDavid was given a blank cheque. McDavid said a number and Oilers said DONE. their was no negotiation. We signed him mid-summer of his second year ELC.

and you and I both know Leafs aren't asking Nylander for a 500k discount, it's substantially more than that

 

[Scott Stevens]

What people don't get is that we can't pay Nylander 8 not because in a vacuum it's the end of the world, but because of how it reflects on Marner and Matthews, if Nylander is worth 8 (which he's not and Drai doesn't justify him being worth 8 considering everyone knows Drai isn't worth 8 either) then Marner is worth 10 and Matthews 12.

The Shanahan comments add another layer to this as well, I thought that this whole thing was being done to save a bit of cap money and everyone was in on it, then they would settle at something reasonable like 6.33-7, however it appears that Nylander is actually being delusional.

If that is the case, I would immediately start looking to trade him, he can earn 8 in some bum**** market where NOBODY cares about Hockey and he will effectively get ZERO endorsements foregoing the tens of millions he could make in Toronto if he has even a bit of hustle or if the Leafs ever won the cup and he wouldn't pay to dine in the city for the rest of his life considering he and others would go down as Gods.

If he's effectively holding the team hostage with his nonsense, we don't need morons on the team, he and his father should know better of all people, so he can have a bit more up front money and give up legacy and down the line money considering if you win the cup in Toronto you can make easy advertisement money for the rest of your life.

DO THE RIGHT THING WILLIE

 

[Nizdizzle]

Hockey insiders as in the Leafs fans living in lala land where their players sign discounts for the privilege of playing for the stories franchise that hasn't won in 50 years?

Because Eichel and McDavid contracts say differently.

Oooh, pulling out the 50 years card. Can always tell when someone is being backed into a corner.

Eichel signed for the exact contract that you objected to (9.5 to 10.5). That is the bar for Matthews' contract. McDavid is the best player in the world, that is not a comparable for him.

 

[MyBudJT]

Why is the fact that McDavid got 12.5 as an RFA and Eichel 10.5 hard to understand?

Eichel was an RFA when he signed that 10.5.

Matthews has outproduced Eichel.

They are in the same situation with Matthews having better production. Matthews can negotiate for at least 11.5 if he wants.

Just because Eichel got overpaid, Just because Draitsatl got overpaid, doesn't mean the Leafs need to overpay their RFAs...

 

[KlefDown]

Why is UFA vs RFA so hard to understand?

UFA vs RFA really doesn't matter when it comes to superstar contracts. especially in today's NHL