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Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

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Critical91 said:
Ah, so now were at the heart of it.

You are guessing.
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Sure, ignoring all the discussion done regarding this, it makes sense to say they’re just guessing. Too bad there’s been pages of discussion on that exact thing, and that it’s not just a guess.

What was detroit’s payroll in 2003 compared to the league average again?
 
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If we trade Nylander like how the Kessel trade turned out, I'll take it. Second overall pick? Yes please.

Never gonna happen though, and we would want D not just picks.
 
hittes petr sykora said:
Sure, ignoring all the discussion done regarding this, it makes sense to say they’re just guessing. Too bad there’s been pages of discussion on that exact thing, and that it’s not just a guess.

What was detroit’s payroll in 2003 compared to the league average again?
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Their cumulative payroll has nothing to do with what the individual players were offered.

Think of it this way: what was the market value of that team? Do we know? When I look up the highest salaries during that time period, I see underpaid players on that team. Shanny is saying that during his time there, individual players took less to stay with the team. Whether the team was the highest payroll or not during those years isn't relevant.
 
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Critical91 said:
What does a team's payroll have to do with whether an individuals salary is market value?
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You don’t need me to hold your hand here dude. If a team is spending $40 million more than the league average, they’re paying their players more. What specific underpaid players do you’ve see on those Detroit teams? These vague statements are garbage.
 
Hunter368 said:
Agreed

Your employer talking about you taking less then market value for the good of the organization comes off very wrong imo. Add that to the fact Shanny history plus their coach making significantly more then any coach in the nhl.....kinda sends a bad message about the leadership & message. Like you I would of preferred him to say nothing.
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What are you talking about? Ehlers just signed for 6 mil long term, so did Pasta at 6.6, Gudreau at 6.75. Right now Nylander is equal to Ehlers, Pasta is better(not by much) an Gudreau is a lot better . So how is asking for 8 million expecting 7.5 not Nylander his father and agent looking for Premium pricing. Its a joke. Just because the entire cap goes up by a million doesn't mean each star player gets paid an extra million per year.
 
hyduK said:
Sure it is. Eichel and McDavid are the most recent elite RFA signings. Both signed UFA like contracts.
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McDavid most definitely would have gotten more as UFA. So you are using 1 bad contract as "evidence" of a league-wide trend, contrary to what has always happened since the beginning of RFAs, and contrary to all of the other examples.

hyduK said:
No ones predicting the downfall of anything.
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Lmao. Have you taken a look around?

hyduK said:
The bar has been set for elite RFAs.
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The bar for elite RFAs was set a long time ago, and it didn't magically change overnight.
 
Can’t believe dubas left this so late into the off season and wasn’t able to have him signed by the season opener. Huge fail on his part for a player he has no intentions on trading.
 
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orbiter11 said:
What are you talking about? Ehlers just signed for 6 mil long term, so did Pasta at 6.6, Gudreau at 6.75. Right now Nylander is equal to Ehlers, Pasta is better(not by much) an Gudreau is a lot better . So how is asking for 8 million expecting 7.5 not Nylander his father and agent looking for Premium pricing. Its a joke. Just because the entire cap goes up by a million doesn't mean each star player gets paid an extra million per year.
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Not sure what your talking about even......where did I ever say he deserves 8 million or even close to that? Aka I didn’t say it.
 
nabob said:
Shanny is the only one with an agenda to say the crap like he did. It comes off really disingenuous considering when he was in Nylander’s spot he accepted a huge offer sheet to get himself paid.
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What hes getting at is Tavares (the best all around player on our team) just left at least 10 mill on the table to come play in Toronto. I dont think dubas is trying to lowball anyone. Its the premium pricing that players and agents demand. I said before Nylander should make slightly more then Ehlers plus inflation. Hes not worth more right now. This concept seems to work fine for Tampa Bay with Stamkos , Hedman and company.
 
hittes petr sykora said:
You don’t need me to hold your hand here dude. If a team is spending $40 million more than the league average, they’re paying their players more. What specific underpaid players do you’ve see on those Detroit teams? These vague statements are garbage.
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So if Player A is worth 8 million but takes 6, and Player B is worth 7 and takes 4.5, and Player C is worth 10 and takes 8....then the team payroll is still higher than league average, are those players not taking a paycut to stay with the team because the total exceeds the average?

You are asking me to guess what some of these players were offered, and I can't give you those numbers. I wasn't involved in those negotiations, nor is it easy to scrounge up contract data from that time period. What I do know, is that Shanny says they took cuts, and he has better inside information than most of us.
 
Fluke Schenn said:
Whats interesting to me regarding McDavid and Eichel - would their teams being any good (Edmonton with the one year blip after a good playoff performance of course), have affected what price they signed for?
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The Oilers challenged for first in the division that entire season.
Traditionally a team doing well, especially in the playoffs as Leafs fans predict for the Leafs would cause an increase in cost to resign players.
 
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You have to take comments from management with a grain of salt. Their authority doesn’t mean they’re speaking truthfully or in good faith. I don’t trust management.

This is a speculation thread, don’t bully people for speculating.
 
Leafs87 said:
Can’t believe dubas left this so late into the off season and wasn’t able to have him signed by the season opener. Huge fail on his part for a player he has no intentions on trading.
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Say what now? So it's Dubas fault, that Nylander won't sign to the $ value, that the Leafs feel he is worth?

Noting, it wasn't left that late in the offseason.... it just didn't get done, because they aren't close enough. I can't find exactly when negotiations began, but there were certainly talks three months ago, and notifications of such in the press.
 
orbiter11 said:
What hes getting at is Tavares (the best all around player on our team) just left at least 10 mill on the table to come play in Toronto. I dont think dubas is trying to lowball anyone. Its the premium pricing that players and agents demand. I said before Nylander should make slightly more then Ehlers plus inflation. Hes not worth more right now. This concept seems to work fine for Tampa Bay with Stamkos , Hedman and company.
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Can’t really compare Tampa for tax reasons. Also because they have a much stronger all around club and are more contenders than the Leafs.

What JT did as a UFA means nothing regarding the Nylander contract.
 
Fogelhund said:
Say what now? So it's Dubas fault, that Nylander won't sign to the $ value, that the Leafs feel he is worth?

Noting, it wasn't left that late in the offseason.... it just didn't get done, because they aren't close enough. I can't find exactly when negotiations began, but there were certainly talks three months ago, and notifications of such in the press.
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I can’t rmeember which event but Nylander was supposed to come to NA for a tournament or something in late August and they essentially started negotiating then
 
Critical91 said:
So if Player A is worth 8 million but takes 6, and Player B is worth 7 and takes 4.5, and Player C is worth 10 and takes 8....then the team payroll is still higher than league average, are those players not taking a paycut to stay with the team because the total exceeds the average?

You are asking me to guess what some of these players were offered, and I can't give you those numbers. I wasn't involved in those negotiations, nor is it easy to scrounge up contract data from that time period. What I do know, is that Shanny says they took cuts, and he has better inside information than most of us.
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But Shanny himself has a history of getting himself paid and not taking a pay cut when he was in the same shoes Nylander is in now. Someither he’s a hypocrite or a liar.
 
I'm kinda curious what a package of Nylander + a combination of Gardiner and/or 1st would get the leafs.
 
Dekes For Days said:
The bar for elite RFAs was set a long time ago, and it didn't magically change overnight.
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So who is the comparable for Matthews then if it's not Eichel.

All I see is Leaf fans saying they won't sign a stupid contract like Buffalo. But I've yet to see a reasonable comparison for Matthews who has a smart contract.

8 years of Matthews is gonna be 11m at minimum. Maybe if you sign him for 5 year you'll get down to the 9m range.
 
Fogelhund said:
Say what now? So it's Dubas fault, that Nylander won't sign to the $ value, that the Leafs feel he is worth?

Noting, it wasn't left that late in the offseason.... it just didn't get done, because they aren't close enough. I can't find exactly when negotiations began, but there were certainly talks three months ago, and notifications of such in the press.
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To be fair we don’t know who is at fault, all we know is the rumour of Nylander ask.....just as important that we don’t know is the Leafs offer. It’s just a negotiation, so both parties liked started out at unrealistic numbers and just haven’t come to terms yet and neither likely Is budging. We don’t know if Nylander is being anymore unrealistic then the Leafs are. Time will tell
 
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