Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is too funny, after the leafs fans hyping him up the last 2 years with ridiculous hyperbole they now have to downplay his game because they're too cheap to pay him :laugh:

We are not too cheap to sign him, and I really like his game, and his potential to get better.

However, we are not going to pay him 8-8.5M per year to keep him. That would be stupid, not cheap. We would just move him like any other asset.
 
Man people get worked up over this stuff lol.

This is real life, Nylander shouldn't care about the team or the fans, he should take as much as he can.

Your career can be over in one play, hockey is a dangerous sport. Get as much money as you can when you can.

Sure it makes things complicated in a cap-world, but that shouldn't be held against Nylander.

Nylander can take as much time as he wants as far as I'm concerned.
 
Can people stop repeating this lie?

Nylander draft + 1: 21 GP SHL - 20 pts -> 37gp AHL 32 pts
Tavares draft + 1: 82 GP NHL 54 pts

Nylander draft + 2: 38 GP AHL - 45 pts --> 22 GP NHL 13 pts
Tavares draft + 2: 79gp NHL 67 pts

Nylander draft + 3: 81gp NHL - 61 pts (winger)
Tavares draft + 3: 82 GP NHL - 81 pts (center)

Yeah, Nylander is a good player but he is NOT ON JOHN TAVARES DEVELOPMENT CURVE!!

Sorry for going off, I just have seen this repeated over and over, and its blatantly not true.

Good job at disproving something he didn’t say. He wasn’t talking about first three seasons after being drafted.
 
This is too funny, after the leafs fans hyping him up the last 2 years with ridiculous hyperbole they now have to downplay his game because they're too cheap to pay him :laugh:

Its not really funny, or true. There might be some Leaf fans that think he should get less than 6 mil (morons)...but there are also alot of non-Leaf fans that are saying he should get 8+ (also morons).

Most Leaf fans want him to sign a deal around the comparables they've seen around the league. Most Leaf fans think 6 years at 6.5 million or so would be a perfect deal for both sides.

Maybe (definitely) you're just a hater?
 
  • Like
Reactions: bukwas
Man people get worked up over this stuff lol.

This is real life, Nylander shouldn't care about the team or the fans, he should take as much as he can.

Your career can be over in one play, hockey is a dangerous sport. Get as much money as you can when you can.

Sure it makes things complicated in a cap-world, but that shouldn't be held against Nylander.

That’s how Shannahan operates when he played. Did anyone on those Red Wing teams take less money. Hell no, their payroll was tops in the league.
 
its hypocritical of shanahan to say a player should take a hometown discount when he signed an offersheet for more money instead of staying in n.j. how are they sinular
1. That was not in the cap era. Many teams in the cap era have their players take less than they would on the open market, ESPECIALLY as RFAs. This includes our direct rivals in Tampa and Boston.
2. People keep saying that nobody on that Detroit team took a discount, but how do you know this? Just because there was no cap, it doesn't mean that the owners were fine keeping everybody together and throwing whatever money they wanted at them. Them being stacked and having a high payroll does NOT mean that players were not taking discounts compared to what they could have gotten on the open market, so that they could keep the Dynasty together.
3. Go back and look at player salaries back then, and tell me it was the same thing. Shanahan made $625,000 in his first year in St Louis after that offer sheet, less than league minimum today. 3 mil total in his first 3 seasons with St Louis. Shanahan, in his highest paid year in the league, made less than what Nylander is asking as a 60-point RFA winger coming off his ELC in a cap world.
4. As somebody who left a situation to go to another team, only to miss out on cups with his old team, I'd say he's in a good position to comment on this holdout and whether he thinks it will be worth it for Nylander, especially in a cap environment where he's much less likely to have options or luck out and end up on a different Dynasty a few years later.
 
Its not really funny, or true. There might be some Leaf fans that think he should get less than 6 mil (morons)...but there are also alot of non-Leaf fans that are saying he should get 8+ (also morons).

Most Leaf fans want him to sign a deal around the comparables they've seen around the league. Most Leaf fans think 6 years at 6.5 million or so would be a perfect deal for both sides.

Maybe (definitely) you're just a hater?

6.5m what a lowball for the great Nylander, I'll echo it again - cheap.
 
Still, a third contract has a different set of expectations and gives the RFA different leverage and rights, and it requires the buying of more UFA years (as does an 8 year contract), which costs more. And he had more time in the NHL than Nylander (a full year), any way you want to look at it, and showed that he could be significantly better than anything Nylander has shown, once given similar opportunities.

A bridge deal doesn't work for either side. 1 year lumps all the big contracts together. 2 and 4 years carry significant risk of going into a lockout with no contract. 3 years hands Nylander all of the leverage and arbitration rights to UFA, which would probably result in him pricing himself off the team if this is his strategy now. Any of these number of years also carry significant financial risk for Nylander, and significant team building risk for the Leafs.
Well since any bridge is pretty much betting on the player the leafs could do three and then offer him what he's worth after that or trade him if he wants to arbitrate to Ufa.

The only danger is he ends up being worth more than seven or whatever he would sign for long term atm now . And then he doesn't factor into Matthew's or marners contracts.
 
Last edited:
Unrelated but sort of related to Nylander here. But I can’t believe owners/gms couldn’t figure out some sort of cost certainty or at bare minimum max contract lengths for RFA’s the last lockout.

Going forward, it will be reason #1 for the next work stoppage.

Now, back to your regular scheduled Nylander is good but not 8 million good conversations.
 
Man people get worked up over this stuff lol.

This is real life, Nylander shouldn't care about the team or the fans, he should take as much as he can.

Your career can be over in one play, hockey is a dangerous sport. Get as much money as you can when you can.

Sure it makes things complicated in a cap-world, but that shouldn't be held against Nylander.

Nylander can take as much time as he wants as far as I'm concerned.
well if he takes more than 56 days, thats 6 million he kissed goodbye. And the next season would be a bigger gamble with him missing a year already.
 
Last edited:
It's not a lie, you just can't read. It clearly states "Nylander's first 2 seasons in the NHL" not his draft + seasons, you just got annoyed at yourself.
I get it. So when you ignore all context and developmental path indicating quality of player... you're still wrong, because Tavares still showed more than Nylander has in those 2 years despite way more responsibility and less opportunity, and he still signed a cheap, long-term, team-friendly contract coming out of his ELC.
 
The Leafs are facing what teams have been facing when your young stars are looking to be paid. Do you pay like the Blackhawks and eat up cap space that is restrictive or the Pens whose stars understood that the number has to allow for some flexibility. Leafs have not won anything of note so the facts are you can't pay for some promised results. There is a blend here. If all these talents want to max out their contracts, then it is unlikely Toronto will win if they do so.
 
1. That was not in the cap era. Many teams in the cap era have their players take less than they would on the open market, ESPECIALLY as RFAs. This includes our direct rivals in Tampa and Boston.
2. People keep saying that nobody on that Detroit team took a discount, but how do you know this? Just because there was no cap, it doesn't mean that the owners were fine keeping everybody together and throwing whatever money they wanted at them. Them being stacked and having a high payroll does NOT mean that players were not taking discounts compared to what they could have gotten on the open market, so that they could keep the Dynasty together.
3. Go back and look at player salaries back then, and tell me it was the same thing. Shanahan made $625,000 in his first year in St Louis after that offer sheet, less than league minimum today. 3 mil total in his first 3 seasons with St Louis. Shanahan, in his highest paid year in the league, made less than what Nylander is asking as a 60-point RFA winger coming off his ELC in a cap world.
4. As somebody who left a situation to go to another team, only to miss out on cups with his old team, I'd say he's in a good position to comment on this holdout and whether he thinks it will be worth it for Nylander, especially in a cap environment where he's much less likely to have options or luck out and end up on a different Dynasty a few years later.

Yes and a cup of coffee used to be 25 cents. What's your point?
 
Leafs fans when it comes to Nylanders contract- He's just a 60 point winger. That's not that impressive. He's not worth more than 6MM.

Leafs fans when it comes to trading Nylander for a Dman- He's one of the best young players in the league. He's developing at the same pace as Tavares. Players of his caliber return young #1Dmen. We wouldn't trade him for anything less than a #1D.
Nobody has said he shouldn't make 6m. Nobody has said he's as good as Tavares. Nobody has said he will single-handedly return a young, established #1 D, which is why we don't want to trade him.

Just because Leaf fans don't want to trade him before he is done developing for anything less than his potential level after development, or for anything less than would help us now on an equal level as keeping Nylander, it doesn't mean you go out and overpay him for what you hope he becomes at some point.
 
well if he takes more than 56 days, thats 6 million he kissed goodbye. And the next season would be a bigger gamble with him missing a year already.

My guess is if it ever comes to that he's simply going to make a trade demand in a couple of a weeks. What really at that point is there left to discuss.
 
Leafs fans when it comes to Nylanders contract- He's just a 60 point winger. That's not that impressive. He's not worth more than 6MM.

Leafs fans when it comes to trading Nylander for a Dman- He's one of the best young players in the league. He's developing at the same pace as Tavares. Players of his caliber return young #1Dmen. We wouldn't trade him for anything less than a #1D.
The rest of this website:

Pay Nylander 8M, he's worth that much (LMAO Leafs' cap issues are insane)

I wouldn't trade you my #7 D for Nylander, he's a bum who won't go into the corners.
 
$7 million x 8 for a 60pt guy!!! nothing wrong with that Willy Nilly!!!
 
The rest of this website:

Pay Nylander 8M, he's worth that much (LMAO Leafs' cap issues are insane)

I wouldn't trade you my #7 D for Nylander, he's a bum who won't go into the corners.

Pretty accurate!

I love having all this talent. Hand wringing over the cap is an exercise in futility. We're in a great position.

If Nylander is worth 8, and Marner is worth 9.5 (according to HF), I am really excited to see what some of the guys they consider superior get.

Boeser will get 10
Hischier will get 11
Pettersson will get 12
Provorov will get 10
Barzal will get 12

And that's comparing them to the current cap, might even go higher if the cap goes up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dangomon
The rest of this website:

Pay Nylander 8M, he's worth that much (LMAO Leafs' cap issues are insane)

I wouldn't trade you my #7 D for Nylander, he's a bum who won't go into the corners.
Yeah, there is a bit of cognitive dissonance with a few of the posters (from both sides) who have been pretty vocal in these threads.
 
My guess is if it ever comes to that he's simply going to make a trade demand in a couple of a weeks. What really at that point is there left to discuss.
Leafs don't have to trade him. But I'm sure if they got a one for one fair offer of a 6 million dollar young dman they would. If anybody thinks they'd just take anything for him, well their dreaming. Afterall it appears Willie thinks hes worth 8 let alone 6.
 
Linholm didn't sign with the ducks until 8 games into the season; Leafs have got no worries IMO; Nylander on the roster right now although will be better but is not a necessity when you take future into consideration when Leafs are gonna be up to the cap.

I know about Lindholm, though I think it was more than 8 days(but maybe that was Rakell, same season). Just saying given the same agent, pointing out the later date isn’t exactly a great representation of the situation given that one got done at the last minute. I’m aware there have been others go farther. Not sure if this is the first guy Gross has taken this far.
 
If they are having this much trouble signing Nylander what's going to happen when they have to resign Marner and Matthews? Matthews doesn't seem keen on taking a discount. How do you get away with paying Nylander only 6.5 when you're going to be forced to pay Matthews 11+? The gap between the two surely isn't that large?
 
  • Like
Reactions: voxel
Yes and a cup of coffee used to be 25 cents. What's your point?
Shanahan signed his last contract in 2009, not 1930.

Point is, Nylander has made more from his ELC than Shanahan did in his 1st 7 years in the league, and is currently being offered a 6-year contract that rivals Shanahan's career earnings.

Shanahan is not being a hypocrite by asking our young players to do exactly what young players all around the league do. Just because he signed an offer sheet one time, it doesn't mean the situations are at all similar. He was seeking less than what current players get on their ELCs or league minimum contracts, in a non-cap world.

They did not have anywhere close to the same level of financial security.
 
If they are having this much trouble signing Nylander what's going to happen when they have to resign Marner and Matthews? Matthews doesn't seem keen on taking a discount. How do you get away with paying Nylander only 6.5 when you're going to be forced to pay Matthews 11+? The gap between the two surely isn't that large?

Let's wait and see.

For the record, the gap definitely is that large to me. Just like Laine will get a huge pay increase over Ehlers. One is a very good player, a star who is extremely valuable. The other has a unique value and skillset that you simply don't stumble across often, and you need to pay extra for that. You don't let the walk over a few million.

Ehlers and Nylander are guys you need to keep, but the organization doesn't burn to ashes if you must move them. Matthews and Laine are guys that the organization is built around.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad