Speculation: Nylander Discussion - Part IV

[The Podium]

Same team choked last 2 yearz. If u ignore the hype what results do they have to show there a contender lol. They have nothing of note except some chokes.

Didn’t realize lower seeds can choke?

 

[FalcorMulch]

We're in a thread speaking of Toronto's cap problem. You're arguing Kadri shouldn't be dealt because he's good.

You're missing the point. If he's traded, it's to get rid of the salary.

Unless you'd rather deal Matthews away?

You don’t trade great contracts to shed salary though. It’s an inefficient way of creating cap space.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

No, I'm not. Just like I won't spend $30 on gas because milk is a buck cheaper at the store two hours away.

We don't know the landscape of the cap moving forward, as there are other players to be signed, not just Nylander, Marner and Matthews. Why would you sell Kadri and his back to back 32 goal seasons to save, literally, a few bucks on the cap. The Leafs are a business; you look at ROI. There isn't a better ROI on the Leafs than Kadri right now.

If they are looking to free up space, Nylander, signed or unsigned, goes before Kadri, as does Zaitsev. Ask me this time next year when we know exactly the cap situation.

Kadri isn't going anywhere. He's on one of the best deals in the league through '22. You are saving $4.5 here, not $7 million. Dubas isn't an idiot.

Unloading Zaitsev, while a sweet dream, might be a problem.

Nylander ? I agree.

Other small fry ? It takes two to tango.

 

[Just Rude]

I don't really buy that. Marner would be higher on my list based on skill and potential alone. Either way moving Kadri to help cover other contracts is most likely counter productive. You'd be better off moving Hyman and Brown before moving Kadri as the difference is basically $400,000.

This. Or as Beast Coast said, "non-core" pieces.

 

[Dustin]

Oh, I see.

You skipped over the title: "List of NHL players who have signed offer sheets"

I expected that there was something that you had missed, as you seem to be reasonably intelligent.

I can now take off my Sherlock Holmes cap...

Elementary! You pulled up a stat showing 36 people since 1986 have signed OS's. That's clearly a very small percentage compared to the complete masses of players who don't but clearly you are trying to make a point and probability be damned.

A little more research indicates that since 1997 only 1 player has changed teams using an OS. If your plan as a team is to acquire Nylander through OS, as you can see, using an OS is not really the best way to go about it.

Now I admit openly that I did not use Bing on any of these searches so I hope that doesn't invalidate my findings.

 

[Dustin]

This. Or as Beast Coast said, "non-core" pieces.

Yup. Even bad contracts can be moved if there are the appropriate picks and prospects added. I don't really see too many bad contracts on the Leafs right now. Zaitsev is certainly a possibility but he's only played 2 years and they have been on the opposite ends of the spectrum each year so I'm hesitant to declare that contract a waste.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

You pulled up a stat showing 36 people since 1986 have signed OS's. That's clearly a very small percentage compared to the complete masses of players who don't but clearly you are trying to make a point and probability be damned.

Did I claim anything else ?

My name is not Donald !

And getting back to the original point: I never claimed that the Leafs could decide to let Nylander go following an offer sheet signed by him.

The original point is that there does not appear to be any retaliatory offer sheet made since offer sheet exists.

 

[Boxscore]

Kuch is a winger. Top wingers should get paid less than top centers.

Kucherov is better and younger than Tavares. Doesn't matter the position. I'm not saying Tavares isn't "worth" top money, I'm just saying that it's hard to guilt trip your inner core to take less when you just went on the open market and paid Tavares top dollar. 11 mil is no discount - doesn't matter that the Sharks were desperate and stupid enough to pay Tavares more than McDavid lol. If Tavares truly wanted to give the Leafs a "discount" he would have did what Kucherov, Stamkos and Hedman did. He did not. This cannot be spun.

Then you have the state tax blahs blahs. If San Jose did offer 13mil a season then tavarez did indeed take a discount of 15%. I bet if you found a Bobby Orr jersey that was 15% off you'd be ****ing happy wouldn't you?

Forget state taxes. It's a benefit of playing in Florida. Guess what - there's a benefit to playing in Toronto too... you get to play in front of, perhaps, the most passionate and educated hockey fans on the planet, in the greatest hockey market on earth. For some people, you can't put a price tag on that. Supposedly, Tavares was one of those people. "I'm coming home...", remember all that good stuff?

This comes down to cap money and flexibility to keep the "team" in tact under the cap. Hedman, Stamkos, Kucherov ALL took less (probably by 1.5 to 2 mil each, in fact) to keep the team together. That 6 mil allows them to keep a player like Point when needed.

If Tavares took 9.5 like Kucherov, I am convinced the Leafs could then convince Nylander to take a mil less, and the same with Marner and Matthews. But he didn't. 11 mil is 1.5 less than Connor-freaking-McDavid. Again, because the Sharks were insane doesn't mean the rest of the league needs to be.

 

[Dustin]

Did I claim anything else ?

My name is not Donald !

Look, is this going anywhere? I and apparently a lot of people don't think Nylander will be signing an OS as there have been very few players that have signed one over the years and even less when the player leaves the team.

I think if this deal can't get done and the Leafs feel compelled to get this done they will most likely trade him in a 1 for 1 kind of deal that benefits the Leafs. That's pretty rare too but it's still the best option for all parties involved.

My take on this is like Gaudreau's negotiation it will end with Nylander still being a Leaf and taking less than he is asking for.

If your opinion is different that's fine but there's no data that would suggest him signing a OS is the probable outcome.

 

[Kingsfan1]

After hearing Nylanders comments today and then Shannys and Dubas I think it’s likely he gets traded which sucks .

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Look, is this going anywhere? I and apparently a lot of people don't think Nylander will be signing an OS as there have been very few players that have signed one over the years and even less when the player leaves the team.

I think if this deal can't get done and the Leafs feel compelled to get this done they will most likely trade him in a 1 for 1 kind of deal that benefits the Leafs. That's pretty rare too but it's still the best option for all parties involved.

My take on this is like Gaudreau's negotiation it will end with Nylander still being a Leaf and taking less than he is asking for.

If your opinion is different that's fine but there's no data that would suggest him signing a OS is the probable outcome.

We got lost along the way.

I never claimed that Nylander would sign an offer sheet.

The original point was that there does not appear to be any retaliatory offer sheet made since offer sheet exists, which was the possibility raised by the poster I quoted.

 

[flamesforcup]

Didn’t realize lower seeds can choke?

Remember how u guys said Boston will be easy cause u beat them in the regular season?

 

[PromisedLand]

Gudreau didn''t sign until Oct. 10 and has a same pos agent as Nylander ---> Lewis Gross

If any of your players has Gross as an agent don't worry your RFAs negotiation are gonna be the same............

Brian Burke basically said that Gross made ridiculous demands on Gurdreau's behalf but Flames didn't make the news public to protect the player

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Remember how u guys said Boston will be easy cause u beat them in the regular season?

Not in the slightest. If you’re talking about fringe posts from a small amount of people, you can do the exact same for fans of any fan base. God knows if we went digging we’d find some gems in your history.

 

[Dustin]

We got lost along the way.

I never claimed that Nylander would sign an offer sheet.

The original point was that there does not appear to be any retaliatory offer sheet made since offer sheet exists, which was the possibility raised by the poster I quoted.

Perhaps. There doesn't appear to be any retaliatory behaviour but again all the sample sizes are quite small and in most cases the team that matches the OS was ok with the contract. People assumed Nashville would not be able to match Weber's due to it being so heavily loaded but that turned out to not be true and Weber became a better asset for Nashville because of it.

Most people in here who are for the OS believe teams will use this as some kind of "attack" against Toronto. We either force them to overpay for their player or we give them next to nothing for their player. Just like the fact there are very few retaliatory scenarios against an OS there are just as few when giving one. The only one I can even think that may qualify would be Penner.

Teams are much more interested in making themselves better than making other teams worse and overpaying for a player and losing assets is not really a great way to make your team successful.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Gudreau didn''t sign until Oct. 10 and has a same pos agent as Nylander ---> Lewis Gross

If any of your players has Gross as an agent don't worry your RFAs negotiation are gonna be the same............

Brian Burke basically said that Gross made ridiculous demands on Gurdreau's behalf but Flames didn't make the news public to protect the player

That was before that season started though, started October 12th. Not that it makes a huge difference. But going into the season unsigned is 1 level up from being 2 days before the season starts without a contract. The date is fairly irrelevant. The day relative to when the season starts is what's important when you get this close.

 

[Dustin]

After hearing Nylanders comments today and then Shannys and Dubas I think it’s likely he gets traded which sucks .

I guess. I mean I would rather see what this team can do with all the pieces we have but any trade involving Nylander will have to benefit the Leafs now and would most likely need to be a 1 for 1 kind of deal.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I don't really buy that. Marner would be higher on my list based on skill and potential alone. Either way moving Kadri to help cover other contracts is most likely counter productive. You'd be better off moving Hyman and Brown before moving Kadri as the difference is basically $400,000.

I've never understood why anyone would suggest moving Kadri to save money. Kadri is on one of the best contracts in the league, hes one of the last players you move to save cap. You keep the core intact and move guys like Brown and Hyman I.e players who are luxuries, not part of the core.

 

[Dustin]

I've never understood why anyone would suggest moving Kadri to save money. Kadri is on one of the best contracts in the league, hes one of the last players you move to save cap. You keep the core intact and move guys like Brown and Hyman I.e players who are luxuries, not part of the core.

Agreed. Furthermore this entire concept is based on Nylander signing for too much money. I doubt very much he's going to sign for $4.5 million more than the Leafs want him to sign.

 

[The Podium]

Remember how u guys said Boston will be easy cause u beat them in the regular season?

Nope, I certainly didn’t. Even if so, regardless of some fans opinions the underdog lower seed can’t really choke, especially when they were down and out and still brought it to game 7

 

[PromisedLand]

That was before that season started though, started October 12th. Not that it makes a huge difference. But going into the season unsigned is 1 level up from being 2 days before the season starts without a contract. The date is fairly irrelevant. The day relative to when the season starts is what's important when you get this close.

Linholm didn't sign with the ducks until 8 games into the season; Leafs have got no worries IMO; Nylander on the roster right now although will be better but is not a necessity when you take future into consideration when Leafs are gonna be up to the cap.

 

[LeafShark]

Nylander > Ovechkin

 

[Heldig]

Hope this is settled soon. Nylander is fun to watch.

 

[Pelle31]

What people don't get is that we can't pay Nylander 8 not because in a vacuum it's the end of the world, but because of how it reflects on Marner and Matthews, if Nylander is worth 8 (which he's not and Drai doesn't justify him being worth 8 considering everyone knows Drai isn't worth 8 either) then Marner is worth 10 and Matthews 12.

The Shanahan comments add another layer to this as well, I thought that this whole thing was being done to save a bit of cap money and everyone was in on it, then they would settle at something reasonable like 6.33-7, however it appears that Nylander is actually being delusional.

If that is the case, I would immediately start looking to trade him, he can earn 8 in some bum**** market where NOBODY cares about Hockey and he will effectively get ZERO endorsements foregoing the tens of millions he could make in Toronto if he has even a bit of hustle or if the Leafs ever won the cup and he wouldn't pay to dine in the city for the rest of his life considering he and others would go down as Gods.

If he's effectively holding the team hostage with his nonsense, we don't need morons on the team, he and his father should know better of all people, so he can have a bit more up front money and give up legacy and down the line money considering if you win the cup in Toronto you can make easy advertisement money for the rest of your life.

Lol, he's not holding the team hostage, Dubas and Shanahan have a number and Nylander's camp has a number and right now they're playing a game of chicken with each other. If Nylander doesn't budge off his stance then the Leafs will have to consider trading him. There's no guarantee that the Leafs will win a cup in the next 7 years so saying he's giving up legacy and future money if he doesn't sign a team friendly contract is comical. That's wishful thinking that Leafs fans expect Nylander to be a good foot soldier and give up millions for the good of the team. If you were in his shoes would you do that.

 

[Del Preston]

Shanahan's comments are laughable when you look at his own history as a player. When he was Nylander's age he signed an offer sheet that increased his salary by 773%.

He made over $40M in 8.5 seasons with the Wings, when Detroit was one of the biggest spenders in the league and there was no salary cap (except for his last season there). They weren't taking less money to keep the team together, because they didn't have to.