Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[supermann_98]

He's not paid for potential.

In his case he was. He scored 94 points in his 3rd year and we all rubbed our hands together figuring it was the start of multiple 100-115 point seasons ... instead he's levelled off as a ~95 point player and being paid as the highest winger in the game.

He sold us all a bill of goods and I've no doubt his next contract year (next year) he'll put away the wake board for the summer and actually train and come in and score 110+ points and cash in again on some sucker GM who falls for it.

 

[therealkoho]

Uhm is this the game thread?

 

[34]

Maybe he’s the one to let walk for nothing?

No, dont let anyone walk for nothing. Try to work out a sign and trade.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It is not a silly award Almost every hockey person in the world with the exception of a few here reference points in a season, not expected and not on pace for.
What is irrelevant is you using “on pace for” to prop up a player that has actually never reached this on pace for number.

They are silly awards. They're century-old traditions that the NHL carries on. They don't mean anything beyond the one specific stat they're showing, and the one specific stat they're showing is not what's being discussed here. Points per game (and even things like expected metrics) are well established within the game and the hockey community, whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. Pace is the only reasonable thing to look at when comparing a different number of different seasons with different lengths.

Also, the pace is not "propping up" anybody. It was a comparison of Marner and Nylander and both have played a similar percentage of games within their samples; in large part because the main discrepancies are caused by a global pandemic that eliminated games for everybody.

A simple question, has Marner ever had 100 points in a single season?

What you don't seem to be getting is that nobody cares. We're not talking about whether or not a player has hit some irrelevant mark.
You're attempting to set this arbitrary mark one above what Marner has done to exclude Marner from some group, and then trying to attach meaning to presence in this group when it actually says a whole lot of nothing, and is incredibly misleading in the way it's being used.

By the logic you're using, somebody who hits 1 point, then 100 points, then 1 point in three consecutive seasons is better than somebody who hits 99 points, 99 points, 99 points. By the logic you're using, somebody who hits 100 points is massively better than somebody who hits 99 points. Even if the 99 points was achieved in fewer games. Obviously, this logic is wrong. It relies entirely on the presence or lack thereof of something meaningless and undescriptive for it's representative value.

 

[Antropovsky]

Nylander is good but has warts....problem is, if Marner is worth 11 million, he is too.

Both are worth about 9 million when using NHL comparables.

 

[ULF_55]

So he has a new Leafs record?

Nylander sets Maple Leafs record for longest season-opening point streak

William Nylander stands alone in the Toronto Maple Leafs record books as he registered his ninth-straight game with a point to start the season.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[mapleleaf979]

If Nylander takes 9.5 o 10 million and remains this consistent. Marner will be forced to take a identical contract at most, or possibly less than Nylander. Marner will not take a paycut from 10.9 , so there is going to be a major problem. If Marner is given a raise to 11.5 or 12, the room dynamic will be ruined.

 

[ZEBROA]

Nylander will get around 9.5 Marner around 12,5.
Nylander has the highest chance to live up to it Marner not as big chance. i would have given Marner 1,5-2mill more then Nylander at every stage this far not 3 or 4. To much even for a selke almost 100p player. And Matthews 1.5 more then Marner. And when they win the cup whatever they want , noone cares then anymore Being overpaid is a burden in this case, and not a carrot.

 

[Notsince67]

I really don’t care what your background is. My point is Marner has never has a 100 point season. Full stop.

It is not a silly award Almost every hockey person in the world with the exception of a few here reference points in a season, not expected and not on pace for. What is irrelevant is you using “on pace for” to prop up a player that has actually never reached this on pace for number.
you guys can take numbers and manipulate them to say what ever fits your point.
A simple question, has Marner ever had 100 points in a single season?

The point is nobody cares because nobody measures it that way. He is considered an over 100 point player. Even Keefe said words to that effect

 

[rumman]

No, dont let anyone walk for nothing. Try to work out a sign and trade.

Why would a UFA agree to a sign and trade? For 8 yrs max term? I don’t think so. Let’s see how the season goes. Yeah they’ll be competitive in the regular season, but I see nothing to convince me that any changes made are enough to overcome paying 4 forwards half the cap. The D needs upgrades, won’t get Bertuzzi or Domi to resign for less which might be a good thing, but their replacements will cost more that’s for sure. Goaltending is another potential problem, let hope not……..

 

[Drytoast]

Trade em both if neither are willing to come in at a realistic value which is I agree is roughly 9m each.

I hate this contract heavy bullshit.

 

[rumman]

Trade em both if neither are willing to come in at a realistic value which is I agree is roughly 9m each.

I hate this contract heavy bullshit.

Marner’s NTC won’t let that happen, Tre imo didn’t have enough time to do anything in that reguard, probably all part of Dubas’ plan to hold the team ransom. I’ll bet he was floored when they passed on extending him, the weasel certainly took care of himself, but he’ll be exposed in Pittsburgh, book it…….

Nylander is good but has warts....problem is, if Marner is worth 11 million, he is too.

Both are worth about 9 million when using NHL comparables.

This would leaves a lot of scratch to improve the D, but never happen, they’ll fleece the Leafs, and why not if they’ll overpay you you’d be nuts not to take it……..

 

[Arzak]

The point is nobody cares because nobody measures it that way. He is considered an over 100 point player. Even Keefe said words to that effect

I agree, he is considered over 100 point player and PK elite.

Mitch got the best PR or maybe it's just Keefe trying to justify MM overpayment.

 

[rumman]

Just saw this, he interviewed with Friedman and Marek today.
Looks like we shouldn't expect a signing any time soon.

MSN

I’d offer 88 a deal in the range of 8-8.9 million X 8, take it or leave it. If he refuses trade him, if he accepts it makes signing 16 easier, Marner is grossly overpaid, and he needs to give some of that money back on his next contract if he wants to be a Leaf going forward………

 

[BrannigansLaw]

If Nylander takes 9.5 o 10 million and remains this consistent. Marner will be forced to take a identical contract at most, or possibly less than Nylander. Marner will not take a paycut from 10.9 , so there is going to be a major problem. If Marner is given a raise to 11.5 or 12, the room dynamic will be ruined.

agreed.

Boy genius royally f***ed us handing out these undeserved contracts. We operate in our own nonsensical cap bubble thanks to that idiot.

 

[supermann_98]

Maybe he’s the one to let walk for nothing?

When you look at the list of defensemen who are UFA the same time as Marner is you have to let him walk, you don't pay this guy more than what he's making now, he's simply not worth it

 

[DraftSchmaft]

It's easy to identify bias when someone thinks Marner's gap on Nylander exceeds 2 mil.

Even more than a 1 mil gap looks iffy right now. In an ideal world you have Nylander @ 9.5-10 and Marner around 10-10.5ish. I do think Marner deserves slightly more for the defensive bonus.

Marner getting elite level 12+ is absurd. I enjoyed reading stats when I was like 12 years old. Now I just want a cup and Marner eating 12+ mil cap space isn't how you get one. Have to capitalize on his monster trade value if he wants that much. That trade value guarantees we won't get worse without him. Either stay equal or get better.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I’d offer 88 a deal in the range of 8-8.9 million X 8, take it or leave it. If he refuses trade him, if he accepts it makes signing 16 easier, Marner is grossly overpaid, and he needs to give some of that money back on his next contract if he wants to be a Leaf going forward………

So you're saying trade him, as expecting him to sign for under 9 is laughable.

If Mitch was previously signed for 9 it might be possible to sign them both for maybe 9.5 now, but Mitch isn't going to take a cut, and there's no good reason for Willy to accept 2 less than what he's already getting.

We should be happy if Willy settles for anything under 10.

 

[notDatsyuk]

When you look at the list of defensemen who are UFA the same time as Marner is you have to let him walk, you don't pay this guy more than what he's making now, he's simply not worth it

You don't have to let him walk, as his new contract starts when JT's ends.

Let JT walk, sign him for a lot less, or make him a coach. Give Mitch a small raise, and use the JT savings on D.

 

[rumman]

So you're saying trade him, as expecting him to sign for under 9 is laughable.

If Mitch was previously signed for 9 it might be possible to sign them both for maybe 9.5 now, but Mitch isn't going to take a cut, and there's no good reason for Willy to accept 2 less than what he's already getting.

We should be happy if Willy settles for anything under 10.

buh bye...........

 

[notDatsyuk]

It's easy to identify bias when someone thinks Marner's gap on Nylander exceeds 2 mil.

Even more than a 1 mil gap looks iffy right now. In an ideal world you have Nylander @ 9.5-10 and Marner around 10-10.5ish. I do think Marner deserves slightly more for the defensive bonus.

Marner getting elite level 12+ is absurd. I enjoyed reading stats when I was like 12 years old. Now I just want a cup and Marner eating 12+ mil cap space isn't how you get one. Have to capitalize on his monster trade value if he wants that much. That trade value guarantees we won't get worse without him. Either stay equal or get better.

Marner doesn't have a "monster trade value".

He's got an NMC that covers the rest of his current contract, so unless you can convince him to waive it, you can't trade him until it ends. When it does, you have an unsigned UFA who's been overpaid to date, and expects to be so again.

If you sign him for even $12 and somehow manage to not include a new NMC, what will his trade value be? Probably good, but not 'monster'.

buh bye...........

?

 

[rumman]

Marner doesn't have a "monster trade value".

He's got an NMC that covers the rest of his current contract, so unless you can convince him to waive it, you can't trade him until it ends. When it does, you have an unsigned UFA who's been overpaid to date, and expects to be so again.

If you sign him for even $12 and somehow manage to not include a new NMC, what will his trade value be? Probably good, but not 'monster'.


?

no way I'd pay 88 or 16 what they will want full stop. Get what you can from trading 88 and see if that wakes up 16, if not let him walk, their cap room can be used to upgrade elsewhere, hate losing a asset almost as much as overpaying a player due to cap constraints. Who knows perhaps 16 will then come in at a reasonable ask, doubt he want to move teams.......

 

[notDatsyuk]

no way I'd pay 88 or 16 what they will want full stop. Get what you can from trading 88 and see if that wakes up 16, if not let him walk, their cap room can be used to upgrade elsewhere, hate losing a asset almost as much as overpaying a player due to cap constraints. Who knows perhaps 16 will then come in at a reasonable ask, doubt he want to move teams.......

What if they want 6? Just a blanket statement means nothing - what do you think they are worth? What would you pay them?

 

[supermann_98]

You don't have to let him walk, as his new contract starts when JT's ends.

Let JT walk, sign him for a lot less, or make him a coach. Give Mitch a small raise, and use the JT savings on D.

Problem is Marner will want Matthews money, which:
A) Matthews isn't even worth, and
B) Marner is already overpaid making his current $10.9m

The level that Dubas screwed over this team just seems to get worse as time goes on

 

[Drytoast]

Problem is Marner will want Matthews money, which:
A) Matthews isn't even worth, and
B) Marner is already overpaid making his current $10.9m

The level that Dubas screwed over this team just seems to get worse as time goes on

He's pittsburgh's problem now. The issue now is to get players to understand that they are all not rockstar's who drafted first overall and play a 200 foot game as one of the NHL's elite top 5 centers.