Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Jojalu]

Problem is Marner will want Matthews money, which:
A) Matthews isn't even worth, and
B) Marner is already overpaid making his current $10.9m

The level that Dubas screwed over this team just seems to get worse as time goes on

So what should the Matthews and Marner contracts AAV looked like?

Marner 7×9?
Matthews 5x10?

The 3.5 mil saved would have done what exactly?

 

[rumman]

What if they want 6? Just a blanket statement means nothing - what do you think they are worth? What would you pay them?

They’re not worth what they’ll be asking, of this I am certain. 88 has looked phenomenal so far no doubt about it, I‘ll bet his game falls off before the inks dry on his new contract.……….

 

[thewave]

So what should the Matthews and Marner contracts AAV looked like?

Marner 7×9?
Matthews 5x10?

The 3.5 mil saved would have done what exactly?

It means a lot. 3.5m added to the 4m you pay for a junky defender gets you a decent one. That or you add 1m to each of the 3rd line players and get upgrades for depth. That or split it at the C position and get the best Cs you can in bottom 6.

 

[Arzak]

So what should the Matthews and Marner contracts AAV looked like?

Marner 7×9?
Matthews 5x10?

The 3.5 mil saved would have done what exactly?

I know that one.

It would set precedence and save us an additional $XM on Nylander and the rest of the team.

It would also put is in a much better position now- since I don't see Leafs asking Marner for a discount. He could go from 9 to 9.5 ez pz, now he'll go from $11M hopefully to Arizona.

Same with Matthews.

$3.5M was closer to $7-10M across the roster and more in the future with the next set of contracts.

 

[horner]

Willy 8 * 10 mil

 

[notDatsyuk]

They’re not worth what they’ll be asking, of this I am certain. 88 has looked phenomenal so far no doubt about it, I‘ll bet his game falls off before the inks dry on his new contract.……….

So what are they worth?

 

[Yall are crazy]

It's easy to identify bias when someone thinks Marner's gap on Nylander exceeds 2 mil.

Even more than a 1 mil gap looks iffy right now. In an ideal world you have Nylander @ 9.5-10 and Marner around 10-10.5ish. I do think Marner deserves slightly more for the defensive bonus.

Marner getting elite level 12+ is absurd. I enjoyed reading stats when I was like 12 years old. Now I just want a cup and Marner eating 12+ mil cap space isn't how you get one. Have to capitalize on his monster trade value if he wants that much. That trade value guarantees we won't get worse without him. Either stay equal or get better.

Then yall shouldve stopped matthews. Getting a raise.

 

[hotpaws]

So what should the Matthews and Marner contracts AAV looked like?

Marner 7×9?
Matthews 5x10?

The 3.5 mil saved would have done what exactly?

the 3.5m saved is the difference between signing Brodie or Petro

the main problem is still signing JT

 

[IPS]

It means a lot. 3.5m added to the 4m you pay for a junky defender gets you a decent one. That or you add 1m to each of the 3rd line players and get upgrades for depth. That or split it at the C position and get the best Cs you can in bottom 6.

When people try and diminish how valuable cap space is that's an argument ender right there. It's just pure silliness.

~1M to 1.5M is the difference between you walking away with a stud like Pietrangelo in free agency or just just coming up short and having to settle for Brodie and a 3rd pair scrub.

Diminshing the value of cap space to try and tell people it's OK that the kids are demanding overpayments is lunacy. These guys don't put it on the line in the playoffs, they do not deserve the defense some people give them.

 

[rumman]

So what are they worth?

Here’s a clue, Single digits……..

 

[notDatsyuk]

Here’s a clue, Single digits……..

Still evasive?

 

[Drytoast]

Still evasive?

9

 

[Menzinger]

 

[Gallagbi]

Gotta win that board battle, Mitch

 

[notDatsyuk]

9

You think Marner and Nylander are each worth about 9?

Ok. Personally I would say maybe 9.5 each, but with the way Dubas handled the previous round of contracts for the four forwards, it's unreasonable to expect either to take that, particularly Mitch.

Unfortunately I don't think letting either walk is a viable option. Even worse, although I can see Nylander settling for 10, I don't see Marner willing to consider anything less than 11.5.

Maybe I'm just too pragmatic.

 

[Drytoast]

You think Marner and Nylander are each worth about 9?

Ok. Personally I would say maybe 9.5 each, but with the way Dubas handled the previous round of contracts for the four forwards, it's unreasonable to expect either to take that, particularly Mitch.

Unfortunately I don't think letting either walk is a viable option. Even worse, although I can see Nylander settling for 10, I don't see Marner willing to consider anything less than 11.5.

Maybe I'm just too pragmatic.

Marner we are stuck with because NMC (unless we could get him to waive it). Nylander we can trade easily and get a few good/solid players. Like what Boston has, to round out the roster.

I'm over both of them.

 

[Jojalu]

When people try and diminish how valuable cap space is that's an argument ender right there. It's just pure silliness.

~1M to 1.5M is the difference between you walking away with a stud like Pietrangelo in free agency or just just coming up short and having to settle for Brodie and a 3rd pair scrub.

Diminshing the value of cap space to try and tell people it's OK that the kids are demanding overpayments is lunacy. These guys don't put it on the line in the playoffs, they do not deserve the defense some people give them.

The difference of Brodie and Pietro is 3.8 million and the assumption he ever wanted to come here.

No one has ever argued the value of capspace but the extra 3-4 million that was paid to Marner/Matthews only is valuable if you believe the Leafs are one player away.

The 11 million spent on Tavares could have been used to round out a better roster is an arguement I can buy into.

 

[Arzak]

The difference of Brodie and Pietro is 3.8 million and the assumption he ever wanted to come here.

No one has ever argued the value of capspace but the extra 3-4 million that was paid to Marner/Matthews only is valuable if you believe the Leafs are one player away.

The 11 million spent on Tavares could have been used to round out a better roster is an arguement I can buy into.

On one hand I get, 1M here or there who cares? But that's how you end up with 4 players eating half your cap.

In an ideal situation, you want a couple of players to overperform their contract. We are not discussing this part ever, just hoping not to get fleeced again.

You also need to strike gold with couple of Knies like players (unlikely we'll get Pasta with our 1st round pick), but we have 1 Knies instead of 8- even if only half of them turned out to be useful that's still potential for a lot of music for 750K ELC. Leafs with their hate for Cap never tried to understand the role of ELC contracts.




These overpayments are the reason we can't get Pietro while wasting 1st after first on Folignos.
No one would trade Knies for Foligno now, but we would trade that pick in a heartbeat.

 

[Racer88]

Has Marners no trade clause kicked in yet or do we have the ability to trade him

 

[notDatsyuk]

Has Marners no trade clause kicked in yet or do we have the ability to trade him

It kicked in in the summer - either June 1 or July 1.

 

[rumman]

Marner we are stuck with because NMC (unless we could get him to waive it). Nylander we can trade easily and get a few good/solid players. Like what Boston has, to round out the roster.

I'm over both of them.

gotta let 16 walk if his ask is too high, which it will be, unless everybody's okay with wasting another year waiting for JT's contract to expire

 

[mjd1001]

So what should the Matthews and Marner contracts AAV looked like?

Marner 7×9?
Matthews 5x10?

The 3.5 mil saved would have done what exactly?

I can't give specifics because I don't know who was, is, or will be available. But don't fall into the trap of thinking 'who could I get for $3.5m', thats not it. Rather its who could I have gotten INSTEAD of Domi for $3.5m MORE than I paid him...or what kind of D-man could I have for $5.5m INSTEAD of McCabe for 2m. Or maybe even better, how many players can you take on around the trade deadline if you have an extra $3.5m to fit a trade candidate under the cap.

 

[Jojalu]

I can't give specifics because I don't know who was, is, or will be available. But don't fall into the trap of thinking 'who could I get for $3.5m', thats not it. Rather its who could I have gotten INSTEAD of Domi for $3.5m MORE than I paid him...or what kind of D-man could I have for $5.5m INSTEAD of McCabe for 2m. Or maybe even better, how many players can you take on around the trade deadline if you have an extra $3.5m to fit a trade candidate under the cap.

It would be great if the Leafs had extra cap room at the deadline.

Pretty much no team does every year except Carolina that aspires to win the Cup.

 

[Racer88]

It kicked in in the summer - either June 1 or July 1.

I thought so…….crap

 

[Dekes For Days]

So what should the Matthews and Marner contracts AAV looked like?

Marner 7×9?
Matthews 5x10?

The 3.5 mil saved would have done what exactly?

The question isn't even what we could have done with an extra 3.5m, because an extra 3.5m was never an option.
We had two options. Pay them the reasonable contracts they got, consistent with post-ELC contract history. Or offer the above and watch them laugh at the insult and leave.
We'd have a lot of cap space then. A horrible team, with all our best players gone and no way to replace them, re-entering an endless rebuild, but lots of cap space.