Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Gilmour1996]

Timing is everything. Sign him cheap a couple days after he gets hurt, or after he goes -4 in a game, or if he starts the season at 0.6ppg or if he is beaten bad in a fight by Cole Caufield.

 

[nuck]

Except the way you've just frame things isn't particularly accurate.....

The Leafs have let depth/support players leave in free agency, not core players. The last two core players to approach ufa (Matthews and Rielly) were both extended

There's nothing in Nylanders history that suggests he won't stay. His last contract negotiations ended with a six year deal with the team

The team has absolutely had enough cap room to give Nylander a contract in the range of his comparables and expected future contract.

Implying that others don't care about the team is obnoxious

The last deal came about because the season for him was about to be lost and he had zero control over any trade destinations if they got tired of the dance. And that was when he really had no leverage. I wouldn't say its automatic that he leaves after the playoffs but I don't think its realistic to think he won't take full advantage of his upcoming UFA status to grind the club for every nickel. He missed a third of a season as an RFA, so why would we reasonably assume he will be a more club friendly UFA?

Whatever he wants now, he will be wanting more next summer and obviously his trade value is going to be waaaay lower by then because their trading partners will be limited to one or two of his favorite destinations and they aren't getting any of his current lower cost.. Either they sign him now and continue dumpster diving to fill out their roster for 2 years or they deal him now and get the maximum return. Waiting makes no sense.

 

[Evilhomer]

The last deal came about because the season for him was about to be lost and he had zero control over any trade destinations if they got tired of the dance. And that was when he really had no leverage. I wouldn't say its automatic that he leaves after the playoffs but I don't think its realistic to think he won't take full advantage of his upcoming UFA status to grind the club for every nickel. He missed a third of a season as an RFA, so why would we reasonably assume he will be a more club friendly UFA?

Whatever he wants now, he will be wanting more next summer and obviously his trade value is going to be waaaay lower by then because their trading partners will be limited to one or two of his favorite destinations and they aren't getting any of his current lower cost.. Either they sign him now and continue dumpster diving to fill out their roster for 2 years or they deal him now and get the maximum return. Waiting makes no sense.

I think the reality is that Toronto is going to do everything they can to not let him go, which will inevitably mean paying him more than some people think he should be paid. But it won't be $10 million. He will end up signing well before the deadline for something around $9.5 million and Toronto's cap situation will be fine. The only time the cap will become an issue is when they have to decide on Samsonov, but I think that situation will be similar to what happened in Colorado when they let their starting goalie leave as a UFA after he won a Cup with them. I think Toronto will win this season and then let Samsonov go to the highest bidder on July 1.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Implying that others don't care about the team is obnoxious

That's not what I was implying.

I also read your initial comment as implying fans who are worried about another one of their favourite players walking out the door are overreacting.

But I'm not sure that's what you meant anymore either.

 

[Arzak]

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

They should just trade him now. Set an example for everyone else. Be a team player, and play the right way, or your gone.

No one likes lazy self-entitled individuals.

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

What, me worry?

He's soft. He's gonna stay soft too. He's always been soft.

That's not gonna change.

Every cap dollar counts. The Leafs can't afford to waste any. Nylander's only the third or fourth best forward on the team.

Yet insists on getting paid as much as the best players in the game.

Sums Mitch Marner. Nylander is made of tungsten compared to Money Mitch.

Leafs can't afford to lose Nylander.

Matthews can score 60 or he can be part of 25M PK duo, in that case, we'll need all the goals we can get.

 

[djdev]

what i would do if i was GM would be sign him to a 1 year deal with the understanding that once JT is off the books he can be signed long term, that JT contract is an albatross ATM

 

[Arzak]

what i would do if i was GM would be sign him to a 1 year deal with the understanding that once JT is off the books he can be signed long term, that JT contract is an albatross ATM

Why would Nylander sell 1 UFA year from his prime to sign at lower AAV now?

We should have this understanding with Matthews or Marner, but we are going to take a stand on one guy with a decent contract on this team. He gets the same amount of shit as the other core 4 while he needed to sit down to get half $$$ Mitch Money got. Madness

 

[Budz]

If the Leafs lose Nylander for nothing - that will be it for me.

 

[Notsince67]

If the Leafs lose Nylander for nothing - that will be it for me.

The leafs would never get a rental the caliber of Nylander at the current price. If they have a chance at a deep run before the trade deadline, you decide to keep him all day long. If he walks then thats cool. He is cashing into his God given talent. If he gets hurt, he might walk anyways. Untradeable.
Where ever the negotiations stand, he wants to be here and the Leafs want to keep him. The only chance he has at 10+ is a spectacular year. Leafs best play is to offer up a slightly higher than market. Maybe 9.5mm x 6. If willy gets hurt, the number changes if he didn't sign.
If he kills it this year, you adjust accordingly.

 

[djdev]

The leafs would never get a rental the caliber of Nylander at the current price. If they have a chance at a deep run before the trade deadline, you decide to keep him all day long. If he walks then thats cool. He is cashing into his God given talent. If he gets hurt, he might walk anyways. Untradeable.
Where ever the negotiations stand, he wants to be here and the Leafs want to keep him. The only chance he has at 10+ is a spectacular year. Leafs best play is to offer up a slightly higher than market. Maybe 9.5mm x 6. If willy gets hurt, the number changes if he didn't sign.
If he kills it this year, you adjust accordingly.

only way im paying willy 9.5 is if hes a center AND has a 90+ point year, i feel like 9 million is a more than fair amount for a winger of his calibre and track record.

 

[Notsince67]

only way im paying willy 9.5 is if hes a center AND has a 90+ point year, i feel like 9 million is a more than fair amount for a winger of his calibre and track record.

Here are his projections on Evolving hockey. There isnt any point getting overly emotional about relative peanuts. At the least there is a model that supports the number I gave.

 

[djdev]

Here are his projections on Evolving hockey. There isnt any point getting overly emotional about relative peanuts. At the least there is a model that supports the number I gave.
View attachment 749531

are you implying that im "overly emotional" over nylander? lol i can assure you i am not. if they want to pay him 9.5 than i think its too much but its not the end of the world i suppose, but i look at a guy like tkachuk who signed for 9.5 and i dont believe willy is as valuable as someone like that. anyways, the real issue in all of this is that ridiculious JT contract lol. i get the reasoning behind it at the time but mannnn its really handcuffed this team in the past few years.

 

[Budz]

The leafs would never get a rental the caliber of Nylander at the current price. If they have a chance at a deep run before the trade deadline, you decide to keep him all day long. If he walks then thats cool. He is cashing into his God given talent. If he gets hurt, he might walk anyways. Untradeable.
Where ever the negotiations stand, he wants to be here and the Leafs want to keep him. The only chance he has at 10+ is a spectacular year. Leafs best play is to offer up a slightly higher than market. Maybe 9.5mm x 6. If willy gets hurt, the number changes if he didn't sign.
If he kills it this year, you adjust accordingly.

For my taste:

Team makes best offer (take it or leave it).

If he leaves it. You trade him as a rental to a contender for an ALL futures deal.

You then flip those assets for a Dman.

Under no circumstances can he walk for nothing. I see nothing to believe we are some lock for the cup (Willy or no Willy).

 

[Mess]

Willy little brother is on waivers today with Pens.

If the Leafs claimed Alex could this help in re-signing Willy?

Also Update:

The Athletic’s Jonas Siegel shared that Toronto forward William Nylander gave his agent, Lewis Gross, permission to continue negotiating a contract extension into the regular season. However, Nylander said he doesn’t want to hear updates until negotiations are closer to the finish line. Gross, notably, also represents Johnny Gaudreau, who had his own round of contract extension discussions with now-Leafs general manager Brad Treliving. The two sides, Gross and Treliving, aren’t unfamiliar with big-money extension discussions, which should be an interesting contributor to Nylander’s ongoing discussions.

 

[ACC1224]

Willy little brother is on waivers today with Pens.

View attachment 749535

If the Leafs claimed Alex could this help in re-signing Willy?

Also Update:

The Athletic’s Jonas Siegel shared that Toronto forward William Nylander gave his agent, Lewis Gross, permission to continue negotiating a contract extension into the regular season. However, Nylander said he doesn’t want to hear updates until negotiations are closer to the finish line. Gross, notably, also represents Johnny Gaudreau, who had his own round of contract extension discussions with now-Leafs general manager Brad Treliving. The two sides, Gross and Treliving, aren’t unfamiliar with big-money extension discussions, which should be an interesting contributor to Nylander’s ongoing discussions.

Not when they would have no where to play him, could make things worse.

 

[Notsince67]

are you implying that im "overly emotional" over nylander? lol i can assure you i am not. if they want to pay him 9.5 than i think its too much but its not the end of the world i suppose, but i look at a guy like tkachuk who signed for 9.5 and i dont believe willy is as valuable as someone like that. anyways, the real issue in all of this is that ridiculious JT contract lol. i get the reasoning behind it at the time but mannnn its really handcuffed this team in the past few years.

I think we can all agree that Tkachuks contract is a bit of a bargain. It was signed with one great season and his previous years were pretty sub-Nylander

For my taste:

Team makes best offer (take it or leave it).

If he leaves it. You trade him as a rental to a contender for an ALL futures deal.

You then flip those assets for a Dman.

Under no circumstances can he walk for nothing. I see nothing to believe we are some lock for the cup (Willy or no Willy).

I see nothing either seeing we arent out of the pre-season yet

 

[Gary Nylund]

Under no circumstances can he walk for nothing. I see nothing to believe we are some lock for the cup (Willy or no Willy).

Unless of course he you know, walks for nothing. This team spends on rentals every year who walk, why would you expect this "own rental" to be any different? They did it way back when with JVR, frankly I'd be surprised if they did anything different this time around.

 

[Budz]

Unless of course he you know, walks for nothing. This team spends on rentals every year who walk, why would you expect this "own rental" to be any different? They did it way back when with JVR, frankly I'd be surprised if they did anything different this time around.

So, using past mistakes as justification for letting a Top 50 NHL player to walk for nothing. Odd stance to take.

I sure hope we are smarter than this.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So, using past mistakes as justification for letting a Top 50 NHL player to walk for nothing. Odd stance to take.

I sure hope we are smarter than this.

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just telling you what I expect will happen. But of course there's always the possibility of signing him next summer, you should factor that into your thinking as well. And in the unlikely event that we do win the cup this season and Nylander plays great for us while we do it, then it'll also be worth it no?

What would you expect to get in a trade for Nylander as a rental anyway? The only trade I can seem even remotely making sense for us is trading him for an equal value Dman but anyone like that would also be a rental so you wouldn't be happy with that either, correct?

 

[1specter]

So, using past mistakes as justification for letting a Top 50 NHL player to walk for nothing. Odd stance to take.

I sure hope we are smarter than this.

I don't think he's justifying that's what should happen. @Gary Nylund definitely wants Nylander back, but is skeptical of management doing it right based on their track record.

 

[ACC1224]

So, using past mistakes as justification for letting a Top 50 NHL player to walk for nothing. Odd stance to take.

I sure hope we are smarter than this.

He'll have more value to the Team playing out the season than anything he will return.

 

[Budz]

I'm not justifying anything, I'm just telling you what I expect will happen. But of course there's always the possibility of signing him next summer, you should factor that into your thinking as well. And in the unlikely event that we do win the cup this season and Nylander plays great for us while we do it, then it'll also be worth it no?

What would you expect to get in a trade for Nylander as a rental anyway? The only trade I can seem even remotely making sense for us is trading him for an equal value Dman but anyone like that would also be a rental so you wouldn't be happy with that either, correct?

Fair enough.

I would anticipate getting more than what it cost the Oiler’s to grab Ekholm.

To maximize Willy’s value you have to do it in 2 (not one). No contender will give up a major nhl player to get Willy. No non-contender will even want Willy.

1. Move him for a huge futures deal.
2. Use those futures to grab a very good dman.

Again, in my mind - losing 88 for nothing would be my last straw as a fan.

 

[ACC1224]

Fair enough.

I would anticipate getting more than what it cost the Oiler’s to grab Ekholm.

To maximize Willy’s value you have to do it in 2 (not one). No contender will give up a major nhl player to get Willy. No non-contender will even want Willy.

1. Move him for a huge futures deal.
2. Use those futures to grab a very good dman.

Again, in my mind - losing 88 for nothing would be my last straw as a fan.

Why would anyone pay that when he will just walk as a UFA?

 

[Budz]

Why would anyone pay that when he will just walk as a UFA?

You trade him to a contender at the deadline. You don’t think a Colorado/Vegas/Seattle/Kings won’t want a Nylander at the deadline?

 

[ACC1224]

You trade him to a contender at the deadline. You don’t think a Colorado/Vegas/Seattle/Kings won’t want a Nylander at the deadline?

Of course, any team would he's a great player.
Not the best idea to make contenders stronger when you're a contender yourself though.

So you feel other teams should pay and then let the player walk but it's a bad idea for the Leafs to let a player walk?
Why isn't that a bad idea for them?