Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

They should just trade him now. Set an example for everyone else. Be a team player, and play the right way, or your gone.

No one likes lazy self-entitled individuals.

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

What, me worry?

He's soft. He's gonna stay soft too. He's always been soft.

That's not gonna change.

Every cap dollar counts. The Leafs can't afford to waste any. Nylander's only the third or fourth best forward on the team.

Yet insists on getting paid as much as the best players in the game.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Have you not seen Willy’s hair compared to his dad’s? No comparison. Seriously tho Michael Nylander may have chased every cent to provide for his family and Willy grew up rich because of his dad’s NHL salary and may not have to same sense of squeezing out every last cent on his own salary demands.

I dunno, Willy's hair doesn't look as thick as it used to be. Genetics always wins.

 

[ZEBROA]

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

They should just trade him now. Set an example for everyone else. Be a team player, and play the right way, or your gone.

No one likes lazy self-entitled individuals.

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

What, me worry?

He's soft. He's gonna stay soft too. He's always been soft.

That's not gonna change.

Every cap dollar counts. The Leafs can't afford to waste any. Nylander's only the third or fourth best forward on the team.

Yet insists on getting paid as much as the best players in the game.

Work on your peoples skill. You read Nylander totaly wrong. Yes his dad is rich. But he aint got a over inflated sense of self worth. Leafs management on the other hand has that for leaf players in general.

 

[IPS]

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

Thank god blowhards like you don't run the team otherwise they'd do stupid moves like trading Nylander "just because".

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

Would bet every cent I have Willy is a harder worker than you in every aspect of life despite his privileged childhood.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Would bet every cent I have Willy is a harder worker than you in every aspect of life despite his privileged childhood.

That's not saying much.

I would hope the bar for a professional athlete would be higher than the one set for me. You're right that I'm living proof work effort equals results. But just getting by shouldn't be good enough for Nylander.

Yet here we are....

 

[notDatsyuk]

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

They should just trade him now. Set an example for everyone else. Be a team player, and play the right way, or your gone.

No one likes lazy self-entitled individuals.

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

What, me worry?

He's soft. He's gonna stay soft too. He's always been soft.

That's not gonna change.

Every cap dollar counts. The Leafs can't afford to waste any. Nylander's only the third or fourth best forward on the team.

Yet insists on getting paid as much as the best players in the game.

Ignoring the character assassinations, Nylander's the third best forward on the team, and even if he gets $10M he'll still be only the fourth highest paid forward on the team.

I do agree that considering how much they have overpaid the other three, they can't afford to waste any more, but I'm not sure giving Nylander $9.5M is 'waste'.

 

[kevsh]

they can't afford to waste any more, but I'm not sure giving Nylander $9.5M is 'waste'.

On an individual basis, no. But that sentiment is why the Leafs haven't been able to fill out the roster with Cup-calibre talent. The team still doesn't have a strong enough blue line and the cap space (and assets) they get back from moving him could go a long way to addressing that.

Or, same methodology and move Marner instead. Either way, it's a reality that MLSE has refused to accept: They aren't going to win paying these four as much as they do, so something has to give.

 

[IPS]

Ignoring the character assassinations, Nylander's the third best forward on the team, and even if he gets $10M he'll still be only the fourth highest paid forward on the team.

I do agree that considering how much they have overpaid the other three, they can't afford to waste any more, but I'm not sure giving Nylander $9.5M is 'waste'.

If Nylander gets traded the secondary scoring is cooked. An aging JT is only gonna make everything worse without Willy there to drive the offense.

If there's nothing better out there (which there likely won't be) you have to work something out with Willy, it's only one terrible cap year you have to get though before JT is off the books.

 

[notDatsyuk]

On an individual basis, no. But that sentiment is why the Leafs haven't been able to fill out the roster with Cup-calibre talent. The team still doesn't have a strong enough blue line and the cap space (and assets) they get back from moving him could go a long way to addressing that.

Or, same methodology and move Marner instead. Either way, it's a reality that MLSE has refused to accept: They aren't going to win paying these four as much as they do, so something has to give.

True, but the one of the four who is giving the least value for his contract (and likely the only one of the four who is getting worse) is JT.

Is the team better off losing their best bargain of the four now, or waiting until the worst leaves in two years?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Ignoring the character assassinations, Nylander's the third best forward on the team, and even if he gets $10M he'll still be only the fourth highest paid forward on the team.

I do agree that considering how much they have overpaid the other three, they can't afford to waste any more, but I'm not sure giving Nylander $9.5M is 'waste'.

I'm not convinced it's money well spent either.

Even if Nylander is worth $10M. It's still the same asset allocation that failed so many times already. Nylander is the fourth most important forward on the team.

Trading him for Hellebuyck sure makes a lot of sense if you are just trying to win it all this year and not worried if Nylander is coming back.

Otherwise a young stud defenseman would be nice too.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I'm not convinced it's money well spent either.

Even if Nylander is worth $10M. It's still the same asset allocation that failed so many times already. Nylander is the fourth most important forward on the team.

Trading him for Hellebuyck sure makes a lot of sense if you are just trying to win it all this year and not worried if Nylander is coming back.

Otherwise a young stud defenseman would be nice too.

Yes, the team suffers from poor asset allocation, but is the answer to dump the one of the four who is actually the best asset allocation, or wait two years until the worst is gone?

Nylander is the third best and third (or possibly second) most important forward on the team, and still only the fourth-best paid (at under $7 this year, and even at $10 next year).

Hellebuyck is making virtually the same as Willy, and I'm not sure he's as much of an upgrade in net as we would lose at forward.

A "stud defenceman" would be nice, but again, I ask 'who is available that we could get?'

 

[supermann_98]

I dunno, Willy's hair doesn't look as thick as it used to be. Genetics always wins.

Still holding up much better than Matthews and for Swedish Leaf historical comparison Mats Sundin

 

[Menzinger]

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

They should just trade him now. Set an example for everyone else. Be a team player, and play the right way, or your gone.

No one likes lazy self-entitled individuals.

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

What, me worry?

He's soft. He's gonna stay soft too. He's always been soft.

That's not gonna change.

Every cap dollar counts. The Leafs can't afford to waste any. Nylander's only the third or fourth best forward on the team.

Yet insists on getting paid as much as the best players in the game.

It's hardly uncommon or a sign of anything if a player still under contract is still negotiating an extension. It's fairly common for negotiations to go passed October - Pastrnak signed his recent extension last March for example.

it seems as if it's fans more than anyone who create these artificial deadlines as to when it is and when it is not acceptable to sign a deal ect.

 

[nuck]

What level of dman do you think you get in return for Nylander? Do you think we could get a good #2/lower end number 1?

The thing about Nylander and D men is his next deal prevents them from making any improvements on the back end. It doesn't have to be a #1 guy. Can he get you a player who is clearly better than McCabe or Klinger? I think so plus more and that player won't cost $9.5M dollars per. The cap space alone would give them a ton of opportunities that bringing Willie back wouldn't allow. Even when JT is gone they will still have 2 forwards in the salary hypersphere and a 3rd guy will push them to never quite afford the cost of a true #1 defenceman.

You can't build from the front line back in a cap world unless you have some real bargain deals providing quality depth which the club doesn't. They need what $10M gives to improve at various positions more than another $10M forward. How many years has it been since any club won with a "big 3" at forward eating up their salary budget? Its not even a thing that works. Who were the Hawks and Kings and Pens 3rd best forwards? Penguins kind of did it with Kessel in the last go round but with the Leafs retaining he was only a $6.8M player. Willie is good but on a club with MM and AM he is a luxury, not a cog.

 

[Evilhomer]

Still holding up much better than Matthews and for Swedish Leaf historical comparison Mats Sundin

Sadly, genetics don't care how much money you make. If your hair loss is pre-determined, get on that Finasteride/Rogaine regimen as early as you can.

 

[Nylanderthal]

It's only the ones who listen to the talking heads (thinking that they have even an ounce of intelligence to offer) who keep saying D, or G instead of what has actually killed them. Lack of secondary (and timely) scoring in the playoffs.

You can tell who actually watches and who just regurgitates what dimwits like kypreos bunkis and other talking heads have to say.

Is anyone surprised this guy hasn't signed yet?

They should just trade him now. Set an example for everyone else. Be a team player, and play the right way, or your gone.

No one likes lazy self-entitled individuals.

The typical behaviour of a privileged childhood. The result of which is an over inflated sense of self worth. His carefree attitude reminds me of Alfred E. Newman.

What, me worry?

He's soft. He's gonna stay soft too. He's always been soft.

That's not gonna change.

Every cap dollar counts. The Leafs can't afford to waste any. Nylander's only the third or fourth best forward on the team.

Yet insists on getting paid as much as the best players in the game.

Unsurprisingly awful take as usual

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It's hardly uncommon or a sign of anything if a player still under contract is still negotiating an extension. It's fairly common for negotiations to go passed October - Pastrnak signed his recent extension last March for example.

it seems as if it's fans more than anyone who create these artificial deadlines as to when it is and when it is not acceptable to sign a deal ect.

I think in this case the anxiety expressed by the fans is warranted.

A) ML$E and Treliving both have a recent history of allowing players to walk to free agency.

B) Fans have seen favourite player after favourite player leave before and expect it again.

C) There is nothing in Nylander's history to suggest he will stay unless the Leafs pay him a bank breaking amount.

D) The Leafs can't afford to give this guy what he wants so the expectation is that he will walk to the highest bidder.

So you'll have to excuse us fans who are a tad bit cynical about this whole thing.

Don't you think the wool's been pulled over our eyes a few too many times already? Are we supposed to just forget about all the lies, mis-communication, and broken promises? Is it the fans fault they are worried about another one of their favourite players leaving to free agency again?

Actually, you know what, you're probably right.

It is our fault for caring about the team and the players.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think in this case the anxiety expressed by the fans is warranted.

A) ML$E and Treliving both have a recent history of allowing players to walk to free agency.

B) Fans have seen favourite player after favourite player leave before and expect it again.

C) There is nothing in Nylander's history to suggest he will stay unless the Leafs pay him a bank breaking amount.

D) The Leafs can't afford to give this guy what he wants so the expectation is that he will walk to the highest bidder.

So you'll have to excuse us fans who are a tad bit cynical about this whole thing.

Don't you think the wool's been pulled over our eyes a few too many times already? Are we supposed to just forget about all the lies, mis-communication, and broken promises? Is it the fans fault they are worried about another one of their favourite players leaving to free agency again?

Actually, you know what, you're probably right.

It is our fault for caring about the team and the players.

A) Because other players have done it, he must? Great logic!

B) Because fans have seen it before, it must happen in the future? More great logic!

C) There is nothing in Nylander's history to suggest he won't stay.

D) Apparently his original ask was $10M, which means he will likely sign for less. Tre, who is in a better position to know, seems to think the Leafs can afford him.

So you'll have to excuse us fans who want to see him stay if we don't subscribe to your cynicism.

How many of the 'lies, mis-communications (sic) and broken promises" were made by Nylander?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

A) Because other players have done it, he must? Great logic!

B) Because fans have seen it before, it must happen in the future? More great logic!

C) There is nothing in Nylander's history to suggest he won't stay.

D) Apparently his original ask was $10M, which means he will likely sign for less. Tre, who is in a better position to know, seems to think the Leafs can afford him.

So you'll have to excuse us fans who want to see him stay if we don't subscribe to your cynicism.

How many of the 'lies, mis-communications (sic) and broken promises" were made by Nylander?

Induction: the inference of a general law from particular instances.

That's logic. It's a basic tenet of logic actually. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour.

There is nothing in any of this team's, Treliving's, or Nylander's history to suggest this guy isn't leaving to the biggest payout first chance he can.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive and setting themselves up for disappointment when one of their favourite players walks out the door for no return.

Again.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Induction: the inference of a general law from particular instances.

That's logic. It's a basic tenet of logic actually. The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour.

There is nothing in any of this team's, Treliving's, or Nylander's history to suggest this guy isn't leaving to the biggest payout first chance he can.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive and setting themselves up for disappointment when one of their favourite players walks out the door for no return.

Again.

That's nowhere close to inductive logic - all you're doing is saying that because some cats are black, then all cats must be, which is a logical fallacy.

Again, there is nothing in any of this team's, Trelivings, or Nylander's history to suggest that this particular player is leaving.

You're dealing in generalizations and trying to apply them to specifics, which is bad logic, or more correctly a lack of logic.

"Again." Again what? When was the last time that William Nylander walked out the door on the Leafs for no return?

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

That's nowhere close to inductive logic - all you're doing is saying that because some cats are black, then all cats must be, which is a logical fallacy.

Again, there is nothing in any of this team's, Trelivings, or Nylander's history to suggest that this particular player is leaving.

You're dealing in generalizations and trying to apply them to specifics, which is bad logic, or more correctly a lack of logic.

"Again." Again what? When was the last time that William Nylander walked out the door on the Leafs for no return?

No.

What I'm saying is that given the history of all parties involved there is a greater than non-zero probability that Nylander doesn't sign an extension with the team.

Again: as in when Hyman, JVR, Gaudreau, and any other fan favourite walked out the door to free agency with no return.

At this point you are just being facetious.

 

[LeafEgo]

On an individual basis, no. But that sentiment is why the Leafs haven't been able to fill out the roster with Cup-calibre talent. The team still doesn't have a strong enough blue line and the cap space (and assets) they get back from moving him could go a long way to addressing that.

Or, same methodology and move Marner instead. Either way, it's a reality that MLSE has refused to accept: They aren't going to win paying these four as much as they do, so something has to give.

These options may already be gone. Nylanders rental return is going to be less valuable than just renting him ourselves for this years run. He would have to be interested in a move to get full value given his mntc, Gross, and the need to discuss extending with the acquiring team.

Marner is going to go from one full nmc to another.

I do wonder if Willy will get the full nmc that Matty got, and Marner will get. That could add some flexibility down the road, but at this point restructuring cap allocation probably means losing someone for nothing.

 

[meefer]

There is minimal value to trade WN at this point, unless you believe he’s peaked in value. Which, as I view it, suggests he won’t be playing as hard, or harder than ever to max out his next contract. A contradiction? He’s a darned good, if at times, frustrating player. This is his year, I’m curious as to how he approaches it. A fully engaged WN might be something to see.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No.

What I'm saying is that given the history of all parties involved there is a greater than non-zero probability that Nylander doesn't sign an extension with the team.

Again: as in when Hyman, JVR, Gaudreau, and any other fan favourite walked out the door to free agency with no return.

At this point you are just being facetious.

Which is entirely different than saying because other people did, he will. There is a non-zero chance he will leave, but also a non-zero chance he will stay, and what other people have done in the past isn't relevant.

Neither is his being a fan favourite.

If you want to say you think he will leave, that is fine, but don't make specious arguments.

And of course you didn't answer my question, because there is no answer other than 'never'.

Edit: that's actually two questions you avoided:
1) How many of the 'lies, mis-communications (sic) and broken promises" were made by Nylander?
2) When was the last time that William Nylander walked out the door on the Leafs for no return?

 

[Menzinger]

I think in this case the anxiety expressed by the fans is warranted.

A) ML$E and Treliving both have a recent history of allowing players to walk to free agency.

B) Fans have seen favourite player after favourite player leave before and expect it again.

C) There is nothing in Nylander's history to suggest he will stay unless the Leafs pay him a bank breaking amount.

D) The Leafs can't afford to give this guy what he wants so the expectation is that he will walk to the highest bidder.

So you'll have to excuse us fans who are a tad bit cynical about this whole thing.

Don't you think the wool's been pulled over our eyes a few too many times already? Are we supposed to just forget about all the lies, mis-communication, and broken promises? Is it the fans fault they are worried about another one of their favourite players leaving to free agency again?

Actually, you know what, you're probably right.

It is our fault for caring about the team and the players.

Except the way you've just frame things isn't particularly accurate.....

The Leafs have let depth/support players leave in free agency, not core players. The last two core players to approach ufa (Matthews and Rielly) were both extended

There's nothing in Nylanders history that suggests he won't stay. His last contract negotiations ended with a six year deal with the team

The team has absolutely had enough cap room to give Nylander a contract in the range of his comparables and expected future contract.

Implying that others don't care about the team is obnoxious