Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

What is your limit for a "Cap %" for Nylander


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thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
42,303
12,752
Dubas ruined the best chance this franchise had had in eons for the shot at the cup.

Its a catch22 situation but "difficult decisions" unfortunately have to be made.

You can't trade Marner b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Tavares b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Matthews b/c he has full nmc/ntc (now and moving forward)

Your option is:
1) Trade Nylander and restructure cap a bit; when Tavares is off the cap then worry about that when the time comes. Meanwhile; don't mortgate future for playoff runs until Tavares is off the cap

OR

2) Re-sign Nylander for 9 to 10 AAV; deal with the cap crunch until Tavares if off; then after having paid Marner you have about 5M in savings that can be re-allocated. The bet you would be making is that after Tavares is off the cap the three guys (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) who would be making lion's share of the cap would drag this team forward in the playoffs.

Given last 7 years of how the so called "core-4" performs in the playoffs; whats the reasonable bet you are willing to make? In there lies my suggestion.

My suggestion is now that Marner cannot be traded (I wanted him traded to re-up Nylander at a lower AAV and then reallocate cap); and Matthews ahs re-signed for 13.25 AAV (highest AAV in the league until McJesus is probably up for renewal or Drai); and given the last 7 years of their performance in the post season; you unfortunately have to trade Nylander to restucture cap and roster. It sucks but thats the reality of the situation.

Unless one has firm conviction in option 2 (I don't); I am not sure what signing Nylander at a high AAV would accomplish when it comes to team results in the post season.

The only parade there will be is the pretty parade of names that the kids love. Dubas and Shanahan really did a number on us. Maybe Treliving can do something though, he seems good so far except for the Keefe thing. No hope or expectations sadly.
 

geo25

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
820
760
The only parade there will be is the pretty parade of names that the kids love. Dubas and Shanahan really did a number on us. Maybe Treliving can do something though, he seems good so far except for the Keefe thing. No hope or expectations sadly.
He's doing as he's told....sadly, ShannyCon pulls the strings. Wish he was canned..such incompetence. Chelios was sooo right in his public assessment of Shanahan.
 

Gallagbi

Formerly Eazy_B97
Jul 5, 2005
49,529
12,118
Since he started playing, there are only 9 right wingers with a higher ppg. Over the last three seasons, 150+ games, there are four: Marner, Rantanen, Pastrnak, and Kane. He's averaged between 1 and 3½ minutes less per game than them, as well as being the only one usually playing on the second line.

Marner $10.9
Rantanen $9.25
Pastrnak $11.25
Kane $5.25 (but he's 8 years older)
Nylander probably signs for $9.5

Even if you think Nylander isn't as desirable as the first three, that still leaves 29 teams where he would be an improvement over their #1.
Kane was at 10.5M, I think you're looking at his 50%AAV
 

Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
12,947
9,902
I don't think the "can't perform" comment is accurate. For their careers, Toronto's core players are nearly all point per game playoff performers. The notion that they don't perform in high-stress situations really isn't true. There have certainly been some games where individually and as a group they haven't looked good, but that is true of any player or team in any sport. Winning requires that a million different unpredictable variables fall your way. Just because it doesn't happen one year or for five years doesn't mean it won't happen. A team has to put itself in the best position to have those variables fall its way, and the only consistent truth in team sports is that the best way to do that it to amass the most talent possible.
A truly horrible post.

The fact that our core are (lol) “nearly” ppg players in the playoffs isn’t a defence of them. It’s outlining the specific f***ing problem.

Go look at the other players making Matthews Marner money. Are they (lol) “nearly” ppg players in the playoffs?

No. They’re much MUCH more.

Because when you make that much money, you’re supposed to carry the team on your back. Not be “pretty good I guess”.

Drain is 1.57 playoff ppg.

Mack is 1.3 playoff ppg.

And those guys make LESS than our core players. Then look at McDavid. Then rantanen. And on and in we go.

“But but but…. Our guys are near ppg players in the playoffs.”

One of the worst posts I’ve ever seen.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,831
13,535
Leafs Home Board
The only parade there will be is the pretty parade of names that the kids love. Dubas and Shanahan really did a number on us. Maybe Treliving can do something though, he seems good so far except for the Keefe thing. No hope or expectations sadly.
Willy is asking for $10.5 because of the ridiculous over-payment of the Marner contract by the former now fired GM. You can't really blame him because he was making $4 mil less annually now for years.

However if we still had our former incompetent GM I firmly believe Willy would be signed for his asking price of $10.5 mil and rocking his new contract and Leafs would now have 4 X double digit contracts and 4 of the top 12 AAV highest players in the game if that were the case and Leafs would move from Cap Hell :madfire:to Cap Armageddon :madfire: :madfire:territory with now 4 forwards eating up even more of a teams salary cap then previously, thus making the team even less Cup Competitive.

However because BT is holding firm, I'm holding out hope that he gets Nylander re-signed for around $9m mil on term, or he trades him for a decent return preferably and top 2-3 Dman. He won't let him walk after what happened in Calgary where he believed in good faith his players would re-sign and then they ran and left the franchise hanging.

PS. Once Treliving can get out from under the boat anchor of the Tavares contract in 2 years time and either walk away or cut his next contract, then Leafs will only have 2 players with double digits AAV and mercifully finally getting out of Cap Hell :madfire: & on to building a solid complete team :hockey: :stanley: with a rising Salary Cap and away from this core 4 forward top heavy nonsense.
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
11,584
9,644
Willy is asking for $10.5 because of the ridiculous over-payment of the Marner contract by the former now fired GM. You can't really blame him because he was making $4 mil less annually now for years.

However if we still had our former incompetent GM I firmly believe Willy would be signed for his asking price of $10.5 mil and rocking his new contract and Leafs would now have 4 X double digit contracts and 4 of the top 12 AAV highest players in the game if that were the case and Leafs would move from Cap Hell :madfire:to Cap Armageddon :madfire: :madfire:territory with now 4 forwards eating up even more of a teams salary cap then previously, thus making the team even less Cup Competitive.

However because BT is holding firm, I'm holding out hope that he gets Nylander re-signed for around $9m mil on term, or he trades him for a decent return preferably and top 2-3 Dman. He won't let him walk after what happened in Calgary where he believed in good faith his players would re-sign and then they ran and left the franchise hanging.

PS. Once Treliving can get out from under the boat anchor of the Tavares contract in 2 years time and either walk away or cut his next contract, then Leafs will only have 2 players with double digits AAV and mercifully finally getting out of Cap Hell :madfire: & on to building a solid complete team :hockey: :stanley: with a rising Salary Cap and away from this core 4 forward top heavy nonsense.
I thought he was asking for $10, and I expect him to get $9-9.5, which I think is acceptable.

I agree with all the rest.
 

Niagara Bill

Registered User
Oct 11, 2021
1,932
1,422
Pay the man, 10 or 10.5, just have the ability to trade him. Play him this year and either trade at deadline or end of season.
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
16,376
11,467
Pay the man, 10 or 10.5, just have the ability to trade him. Play him this year and either trade at deadline or end of season.
But Marner was overpaid and put us into cap hell at a similar salary...basically a cap dump...or so you've said.
 

tuckerintensity

armed with will and determination
Jul 16, 2022
324
405
A truly horrible post.

The fact that our core are (lol) “nearly” ppg players in the playoffs isn’t a defence of them. It’s outlining the specific f***ing problem.

Go look at the other players making Matthews Marner money. Are they (lol) “nearly” ppg players in the playoffs?

No. They’re much MUCH more.

Because when you make that much money, you’re supposed to carry the team on your back. Not be “pretty good I guess”.

Drain is 1.57 playoff ppg.

Mack is 1.3 playoff ppg.

And those guys make LESS than our core players. Then look at McDavid. Then rantanen. And on and in we go.

“But but but…. Our guys are near ppg players in the playoffs.”

One of the worst posts I’ve ever seen.
Wait until this guy finds out Marner's playoff PPG the last two seasons is higher than MacKinnon.

Oh wait, you don't like current stats? Since he came into the league, his PPG in the playoffs is the same as AO's and only .02 lower than AO's career. Since Matthews came into the league, higher PPG in the playoffs than Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Bergeron, Tkachuk (of the five, only Kane has a higher PPG for his career than Matthews).

Of the Top 8 AAV forwards (Top 10 includes 2 D), Marner and Matthews for their careers fall in the middle (they are 4 and 5).

I'm not saying don't paint a picture, I'm saying don't make shit up.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,203
24,643
But Marner was overpaid and put us into cap hell at a similar salary...basically a cap dump...or so you've said.
Are you comparing Marner's contract that took effect in 2019 ago to Nylander's next contract that will take effect in 2024?
 

ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,580
24,957
Richmond Hill, ON
Wait until this guy finds out Marner's playoff PPG the last two seasons is higher than MacKinnon.

Oh wait, you don't like current stats? Since he came into the league, his PPG in the playoffs is the same as AO's and only .02 lower than AO's career. Since Matthews came into the league, higher PPG in the playoffs than Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Bergeron, Tkachuk (of the five, only Kane has a higher PPG for his career than Matthews).

Of the Top 8 AAV forwards (Top 10 includes 2 D), Marner and Matthews for their careers fall in the middle (they are 4 and 5).

I'm not saying don't paint a picture, I'm saying don't make shit up.
I'll take MacK's production over the last two playoffs and his SC over Marner's. No contest career playoff points. Mitch has 10 goals in 50 playoff games while MacK has 44 goals in 77 games. Yikes.

And then when you watch MacK and Marner perform in the playoffs, it is not even fair.
 

Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
12,947
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Wait until this guy finds out Marner's playoff PPG the last two seasons is higher than MacKinnon.

Oh wait, you don't like current stats? Since he came into the league, his PPG in the playoffs is the same as AO's and only .02 lower than AO's career. Since Matthews came into the league, higher PPG in the playoffs than Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Bergeron, Tkachuk (of the five, only Kane has a higher PPG for his career than Matthews).

Of the Top 8 AAV forwards (Top 10 includes 2 D), Marner and Matthews for their careers fall in the middle (they are 4 and 5).

I'm not saying don't paint a picture, I'm saying don't make shit up.
Well, for people like Ovy, you're comparing the career of someone in their late 30's to someone's all prime years. A more fair comparison is playoff ppg after their first 7 seasons (spoiler... it doesn't look good for matthews).

Regardless, a superstar having mediocre playoff numbers, but overwhelming team playoff success is fine. See Kane.

It's also fine for a superstar to have ridiculously good playoff numbers with mediocre team playoff success (See McDrai. They're doing all they can. Can't blame them).

What the leafs have is superstar players with mediocre individual stats and pathetic team playoff success. It's the double whammy.

If Matthews had 1.57 ppg in the playoffs (like Drai), nobody would be blaming him or even criticizing his recent cap hit. Everyone would be like "Matthews is carrying the leafs on his shoulders but his teammates keep letting him down."

That's now what's happening though. His playoff stats are TERRIBLE in relation to his current direct comparables. And these guys eat up too much of our cap to not be absolutely dominant in the playoffs.
 

egd27

exspecta usque ad proximum annum
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Jul 8, 2011
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A truly horrible post.

The fact that our core are (lol) “nearly” ppg players in the playoffs isn’t a defence of them. It’s outlining the specific f***ing problem.

Go look at the other players making Matthews Marner money. Are they (lol) “nearly” ppg players in the playoffs?

No. They’re much MUCH more.

Because when you make that much money, you’re supposed to carry the team on your back. Not be “pretty good I guess”.

Drain is 1.57 playoff ppg.

Mack is 1.3 playoff ppg.

And those guys make LESS than our core players. Then look at McDavid. Then rantanen. And on and in we go.

“But but but…. Our guys are near ppg players in the playoffs.”

One of the worst posts I’ve ever seen.
Last 4 post seasons / Minimum 20 GP / Forwards Only

RankPlayerP/GP
1​
Connor McDavid
1.83​
2​
Leon Draisaitl
1.69​
3​
Nathan MacKinnon
1.37​
4​
Mikko Rantanen
1.33​
5​
Nikita Kucherov
1.29​
6​
Brad Marchand
1.18​
7​
Jack Eichel
1.18​
8​
Gabriel Landeskog
1.09​
9​
Brayden Point
1.07​
10​
David Perron
1.05​
11
Auston Matthews
1.03​
12​
Nazem Kadri
1.03​
13​
David Pastrnak
1.03​
14​
Mika Zibanejad
1.00​
15
Mitchell Marner
1.00​
16​
Ryan O'Reilly
0.97​
17​
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
0.97​
18
William Nylander
0.97​
19​
Sebastian Aho
0.96​
20​
Johnny Gaudreau
0.95​
43
John Tavares
0.71​
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,580
24,957
Richmond Hill, ON
Last 4 post seasons / Minimum 20 GP / Forwards Only

RankPlayerP/GP
1​
Connor McDavid
1.83​
2​
Leon Draisaitl
1.69​
3​
Nathan MacKinnon
1.37​
4​
Mikko Rantanen
1.33​
5​
Nikita Kucherov
1.29​
6​
Brad Marchand
1.18​
7​
Jack Eichel
1.18​
8​
Gabriel Landeskog
1.09​
9​
Brayden Point
1.07​
10​
David Perron
1.05​
11
Auston Matthews
1.03​
12​
Nazem Kadri
1.03​
13​
David Pastrnak
1.03​
14​
Mika Zibanejad
1.00​
15
Mitchell Marner
1.00​
16​
Ryan O'Reilly
0.97​
17​
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
0.97​
18
William Nylander
0.97​
19​
Sebastian Aho
0.96​
20​
Johnny Gaudreau
0.95​
43
John Tavares
0.71​
If you do $/Playoff Point, our guys should be at the top of the list.
 
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ShaneFalco

Registered User
Jul 15, 2012
21,414
15,770
London, On
I'll take MacK's production over the last two playoffs and his SC over Marner's. No contest career playoff points. Mitch has 10 goals in 50 playoff games while MacK has 44 goals in 77 games. Yikes.

And then when you watch MacK and Marner perform in the playoffs, it is not even fair.
One turns to a perimeter game bc of the lack of time and space in.the playoffs. That and he's built like a 16 year old
 
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ToneDog

56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Jun 11, 2017
25,580
24,957
Richmond Hill, ON
One turns to a perimeter game bc of the lack of time and space in.the playoffs. That and he's built like a 16 year old
The successful one plays like a wrecking ball. That goal he scored in the SCF vs Tampa is all you need to see. But hey Marner is 1 for 1 and lethal on penalty shots.
 
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Throw More Waffles

Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
Oct 9, 2015
12,947
9,902
Last 4 post seasons / Minimum 20 GP / Forwards Only

RankPlayerP/GP
1​
Connor McDavid
1.83​
2​
Leon Draisaitl
1.69​
3​
Nathan MacKinnon
1.37​
4​
Mikko Rantanen
1.33​
5​
Nikita Kucherov
1.29​
6​
Brad Marchand
1.18​
7​
Jack Eichel
1.18​
8​
Gabriel Landeskog
1.09​
9​
Brayden Point
1.07​
10​
David Perron
1.05​
11
Auston Matthews
1.03​
12​
Nazem Kadri
1.03​
13​
David Pastrnak
1.03​
14​
Mika Zibanejad
1.00​
15
Mitchell Marner
1.00​
16​
Ryan O'Reilly
0.97​
17​
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
0.97​
18
William Nylander
0.97​
19​
Sebastian Aho
0.96​
20​
Johnny Gaudreau
0.95​
43
John Tavares
0.71​
It's just so embarrassing...
 

Niagara Bill

Registered User
Oct 11, 2021
1,932
1,422
But Marner was overpaid and put us into cap hell at a similar salary...basically a cap dump...or so you've said.
What I am saying is make him happy, pay him 2024 25 year and trade him at the end of this year .he is 6.9 this year.
Make the choice to move on now.

They currently have the ability to trade him.
Right, don't give it up.
you have 6.9 this year, sign him extension snd trade him after our cup win this yr.
 

notDatsyuk

Registered User
Jul 20, 2018
11,584
9,644
What I am saying is make him happy, pay him 2024 25 year and trade him at the end of this year .he is 6.9 this year.
Make the choice to move on now.


Right, don't give it up.
you have 6.9 this year, sign him extension snd trade him after our cup win this yr.
I don't think they can give up the M-NTC while signing an extension.

We aren't winning the Cup this year.

If he signs for $9-9.5, which is likely, he'll still be the best bargain, and we'll gain much more by just letting JT expire.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
76,871
43,586
Right, don't give it up.
you have 6.9 this year, sign him extension snd trade him after our cup win this yr.
Not sure what you mean by 'don't give it up". It's there for the duration of the contract.
 

egd27

exspecta usque ad proximum annum
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2011
17,203
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GTA
If you do $/Playoff Point, our guys should be at the top of the list.
Why not, it's a quiet day at the office.

Since the number of GP varies, I used the ppg X 30 gp to level that out (16, 34 88 all have 30 gp over the past 4 seasons) and used the 2022-23 AAV (even though that skewed players like Gaudreau and MacKinnon)

Here you go:

RankPlayerP/GPPoints / 30gpAAVcap per point
1​
John Tavares0.7121$ 11,000,000$ 516,432
2​
Auston Matthews1.0331$ 11,640,250$ 376,707
3​
Mitchell Marner1.0030$ 10,903,000$ 363,433
4​
Johnny Gaudreau0.9529$ 9,750,000$ 342,105
5​
Nathan MacKinnon1.3741$ 12,600,000$ 306,569
6​
Brayden Point1.0732$ 9,500,000$ 295,950
7​
Sebastian Aho0.9629$ 8,460,250$ 293,759
8​
Mika Zibanejad1.0030$ 8,500,000$ 283,333
9​
Jack Eichel1.1835$ 10,000,000$ 282,486
10​
Ryan O'Reilly0.9729$ 7,500,000$ 257,732
11​
Nikita Kucherov1.2939$ 9,500,000$ 245,478
12​
William Nylander0.9729$ 6,962,366$ 239,257
13​
Mikko Rantanen1.3340$ 9,250,000$ 231,830
14​
Connor McDavid1.8355$ 12,500,000$ 227,687
15​
Nazem Kadri1.0331$ 7,000,000$ 226,537
16​
David Pastrnak1.0331$ 6,666,667$ 215,750
17​
Gabriel Landeskog1.0933$ 7,000,000$ 214,067
18​
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins0.9729$ 5,125,000$ 176,117
19​
Brad Marchand1.1835$ 6,125,000$ 173,023
20​
Leon Draisaitl1.6951$ 8,500,000$ 167,653
 
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