Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[notDatsyuk]

I actually expect him to be good at defence. A little more effort, a little more focus and a little more consistency in his own end and he’d be fine. For anyone with his physical gifts and skill set, it’s not too much to ask.

Why could Marchand and Bergeron kill penalties and not Willy?

He has done a bit. Last two seasons he had 33 minutes of PK time, and was on for 1 goal for and 2 against.
For comparison, Marner had 327 minutes of PK time, and was on for 10 goals for and 41 against.

 

[PromisedLand]

Absolutely. Unfortunately Dubas left us in a position where we can't trade either of the two we should for two more years.

So what do we do? Trade Nylander, or wait until JT's and Marner's contracts end? Anything else is pretty much shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic.

If we wait out two years, we can try a sign and trade for Marner or just re-sign him. We can just let JT walk, or sign him for a reasonable amount (2 years at $3 per?) or retire him upstairs, which I think is best for both him and the team.

What do you suggest?

Dubas ruined the best chance this franchise had had in eons for the shot at the cup.

Its a catch22 situation but "difficult decisions" unfortunately have to be made.

You can't trade Marner b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Tavares b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Matthews b/c he has full nmc/ntc (now and moving forward)

Your option is:
1) Trade Nylander and restructure cap a bit; when Tavares is off the cap then worry about that when the time comes. Meanwhile; don't mortgate future for playoff runs until Tavares is off the cap

OR

2) Re-sign Nylander for 9 to 10 AAV; deal with the cap crunch until Tavares if off; then after having paid Marner you have about 5M in savings that can be re-allocated. The bet you would be making is that after Tavares is off the cap the three guys (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) who would be making lion's share of the cap would drag this team forward in the playoffs.

Given last 7 years of how the so called "core-4" performs in the playoffs; whats the reasonable bet you are willing to make? In there lies my suggestion.

My suggestion is now that Marner cannot be traded (I wanted him traded to re-up Nylander at a lower AAV and then reallocate cap); and Matthews ahs re-signed for 13.25 AAV (highest AAV in the league until McJesus is probably up for renewal or Drai); and given the last 7 years of their performance in the post season; you unfortunately have to trade Nylander to restucture cap and roster. It sucks but thats the reality of the situation.

Unless one has firm conviction in option 2 (I don't); I am not sure what signing Nylander at a high AAV would accomplish when it comes to team results in the post season.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Dubas ruined the best chance this franchise had had in eons for the shot at the cup.

Its a catch22 situation but "difficult decisions" unfortunately have to be made.

You can't trade Marner b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Tavares b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Matthews b/c he has full nmc/ntc (now and moving forward)

Your option is:
1) Trade Nylander and restructure cap a bit; when Tavares is off the cap then worry about that when the time comes. Meanwhile; don't mortgate future for playoff runs until Tavares is off the cap

OR

2) Re-sign Nylander for 9 to 10 AAV; deal with the cap crunch until Tavares if off; then after having paid Marner you have about 5M in savings that can be re-allocated. The bet you would be making is that after Tavares is off the cap the three guys (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) who would be making lion's share of the cap would drag this team forward in the playoffs.

Given last 7 years of how the so called "core-4" performs in the playoffs; whats the reasonable bet you are willing to make? In there lies my suggestion.

My suggestion is now that Marner cannot be traded (I wanted him traded to re-up Nylander at a lower AAV and then reallocate cap); and Matthews ahs re-signed for 13.25 AAV (highest AAV in the league until McJesus is probably up for renewal or Drai); and given the last 7 years of their performance in the post season; you unfortunately have to trade Nylander to restucture cap and roster. It sucks but thats the reality of the situation.

Unless one has firm conviction in option 2 (I don't); I am not sure what signing Nylander at a high AAV would accomplish when it comes to team results in the post season.

Certainly agree with the first sentence.

Unfortunately, if you look at Matthews at 13.25, Marner at 12, and Nylander at 9.5, you are likely again looking at Willy as the best bang for the buck.

I suspect they may trade him, but I don't think it's the best move.

 

[Notsince67]

Certainly agree with the first sentence.

Unfortunately, if you look at Matthews at 13.25, Marner at 12, and Nylander at 9.5, you are likely again looking at Willy as the best bang for the buck.

I suspect they may trade him, but I don't think it's the best move.

Not sure how you even get close to this conclusion. As a percentage of career points, Willy would be better paid and he played more games. This doesnt even touch the defensive contribution that Marner brings to the table.

 

[notbias]

Dubas ruined the best chance this franchise had had in eons for the shot at the cup.

Its a catch22 situation but "difficult decisions" unfortunately have to be made.

You can't trade Marner b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Tavares b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Matthews b/c he has full nmc/ntc (now and moving forward)

Your option is:
1) Trade Nylander and restructure cap a bit; when Tavares is off the cap then worry about that when the time comes. Meanwhile; don't mortgate future for playoff runs until Tavares is off the cap

OR

2) Re-sign Nylander for 9 to 10 AAV; deal with the cap crunch until Tavares if off; then after having paid Marner you have about 5M in savings that can be re-allocated. The bet you would be making is that after Tavares is off the cap the three guys (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) who would be making lion's share of the cap would drag this team forward in the playoffs.

Given last 7 years of how the so called "core-4" performs in the playoffs; whats the reasonable bet you are willing to make? In there lies my suggestion.

My suggestion is now that Marner cannot be traded (I wanted him traded to re-up Nylander at a lower AAV and then reallocate cap); and Matthews ahs re-signed for 13.25 AAV (highest AAV in the league until McJesus is probably up for renewal or Drai); and given the last 7 years of their performance in the post season; you unfortunately have to trade Nylander to restucture cap and roster. It sucks but thats the reality of the situation.

Unless one has firm conviction in option 2 (I don't); I am not sure what signing Nylander at a high AAV would accomplish when it comes to team results in the post season.

The best chance we had was the star players on ELCs... imagine having Nylander, Marner, and Matthews on ELCs and your big splash is Marleau...

If there was ever a best chance, it was when you had a 1C, 1RW, and 2RW on ELCs

 

[Bomber0104]

The best chance we had was the star players on ELCs... imagine having Nylander, Marner, and Matthews on ELCs and your big splash is Marleau...

If there was ever a best chance, it was when you had a 1C, 1RW, and 2RW on ELCs

Name one franchise that went from last place (drafting Matthews) to a Cup or even a conference finals in 3 years.

Since you seem to think this is the standard, you should have a lot of examples I'm sure.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Not sure how you even get close to this conclusion. As a percentage of career points, Willy would be better paid and he played more games. This doesnt even touch the defensive contribution that Marner brings to the table.

So we continue hoping that this core can finally “figure it out” and get through at least two rounds? If there was a trade available where we could get a legit top 4 dman and top 9 forward who can also PK, for Nylander, I would do it, seeing as how management is committed to M & M.

 

[Notsince67]

So we continue hoping that this core can finally “figure it out” and get through at least two rounds? If there was a trade available where we could get a legit top 4 dman and top 9 forward who can also PK, for Nylander, I would do it, seeing as how management is committed to M & M.

Trades are opportunistic. Players like Willy arent available every day but fair trades aren't either. If the team is looking to trade, it probably is going to happen in the season, after a top guy on a different team has a season threatening injury which opens up cap and desperation.

 

[ToneDog]

So we continue hoping that this core can finally “figure it out” and get through at least two rounds? If there was a trade available where we could get a legit top 4 dman and top 9 forward who can also PK, for Nylander, I would do it, seeing as how management is committed to M & M.

Based on what Tre got for M Tkachuk, I'd want more.

• 2022-Jul-22 Traded from Calgary Flames with conditional draft pick to Florida Panthers for MacKenzie Weegar, Jonathan Huberdeau, Cole Schwindt and round 1 pick in the 2025 draft

 

[Captain Crunch]

I don't think the "can't perform" comment is accurate. For their careers, Toronto's core players are nearly all point per game playoff performers. The notion that they don't perform in high-stress situations really isn't true. There have certainly been some games where individually and as a group they haven't looked good, but that is true of any player or team in any sport. Winning requires that a million different unpredictable variables fall your way. Just because it doesn't happen one year or for five years doesn't mean it won't happen. A team has to put itself in the best position to have those variables fall its way, and the only consistent truth in team sports is that the best way to do that it to amass the most talent possible.

So it comes down to reshuffling the deck chairs in the bottom 6, and hoping that our defence, which is made up of a #2-3 dman and the rest being #4-6’s, can help this core finally get it done in the playoffs. It still seems like we could use more cap space to do justice to this plan, especially with our defence.

Trades are opportunistic. Players like Willy arent available every day but fair trades aren't either. If the team is looking to trade, it probably is going to happen in the season, after a top guy on a different team has a season threatening injury which opens up cap and desperation.

As well as that team not being on Willy’s no trade list.

 

[LeafEgo]

Name one franchise that went from last place (drafting Matthews) to a Cup or even a conference finals in 3 years.

Since you seem to think this is the standard, you should have a lot of examples I'm sure.

It's a hell of a narrative to explain why our best days were behind us when Dubie took over.

Watch out for Anaheim (EK would have been a good fit). Poor Buffalo, times just about up.

 

[ToneDog]

So it comes down to reshuffling the deck chairs in the bottom 6, and hoping that our defence, which is made up of a #2-3 dman and the rest being #4-6’s, can help this core finally get it done in the playoffs. It still seems like we could use more cap space to do justice to this plan, especially with our defence.


As well as that team not being on Willy’s no trade list.

Yeah the last thing we need is Tre to trade him to a team on his no trade list, have Willie reject it and then turn around and trade him for a year of Barrie and Kerfoot.

 

[ToneDog]

It's a hell of a narrative to explain why our best days were behind us when Dubie took over.

Watch out for Anaheim (EK would have been a good fit). Poor Buffalo, times just about up.

LOL. Yeah Buffalo should have won at least two cups already having drafted Eichel and Dahlin and should be favoured to win a third this year with Power in his third year. In reality Buffalo is just starting to scratch the surface. If Levi is da real deal, I like their chances to make the playoffs or better this year.

 

[ShaneFalco]

So we continue hoping that this core can finally “figure it out” and get through at least two rounds? If there was a trade available where we could get a legit top 4 dman and top 9 forward who can also PK, for Nylander, I would do it, seeing as how management is committed to M & M.

They're learning how to win
to
They just need to develop that killer instinct
to
They'll push through
to
Goalied/unlucky/beat the eventual SCF

 

[VanW27]

Based on what Tre got for M Tkachuk, I'd want more.

• 2022-Jul-22 Traded from Calgary Flames with conditional draft pick to Florida Panthers for MacKenzie Weegar, Jonathan Huberdeau, Cole Schwindt and round 1 pick in the 2025 draft

Imagine if we traded Marner for Tkachuk last off-season, what a home run that would have been.

 

[Captain Crunch]

They're learning how to win
to
They just need to develop that killer instinct
to
They'll push through
to
Goalied/unlucky/beat the eventual SCF

And that has been working so well!

 

[ToneDog]

And that has been working so well!

Tre in: Dubas out: hope has been restored.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Tre in: Dubas out: hope has been restored.

But Shanahan is still here. However, I am so glad Dubas is finally gone!

 

[Captain Crunch]

The way I am seeing it....

If we subtract JT's 11 AAV we have to factor in raises from all

Matthews got 13.25 - 11.6 = 1.7M raise
Nylander (guess) 9.5 - 7 = 2.5M raise
Marner (guess) 13 - 11 = 2M raise

If we sum the difference we are about: 6.2M raise; we take it away from 11 AAV from Tavares the left over is about 4.8M some of which will go towards increases for goalie; Lily; Knies, etc.

Even with JT not being on the cap; doesn't help much; and when we do comparison with other divisional rivals, conference rivals (I mean we have to go through them in playoffs); and then look at western conference; Leafs salary/cap allocation would be one of the worst in the League.



I don't agree with this assessment.

If they are so good why do we only have one 1st round win in 7 years? I am not even making it up; its a fact!

Ideal scenario is that if some players are taking lion's share of the cap then they have to out perform i.e. go more than ppg and drag their team out of the mess which of course has not been the case in the last 7 years.

Then if you ppg is the only expectation; then we need quality depth to insulate these players; which we cannot have if we don't have enough cap left over.

Exactly! It’s like a dog chasing its tail, or the movie “Groundhog Day”! Wash, rinse, repeat! The list goes on and on!

 

[hullsy47]

Trades are opportunistic. Players like Willy arent available every day but fair trades aren't either. If the team is looking to trade, it probably is going to happen in the season, after a top guy on a different team has a season threatening injury which opens up cap and desperation.

I think willy signs when the leafs are in Sweden
Parents can be there the whole Chebang
But I won't be surprised if the Leafs get tempted with an offer they can't refuse
Players like Nylander are what all 30 teams covey

 

[JKG33]

I think willy signs when the leafs are in Sweden
Parents can be there the whole Chebang
But I won't be surprised if the Leafs get tempted with an offer they can't refuse
Players like Nylander are what all 30 teams covey

Really? Soft wingers who demand $10m AAV with a career .8ppg (regular season and playoffs) are what teams covet?

 

[notdoneyet]

Imagine if we traded Marner for Tkachuk last off-season, what a home run that would have been.

Imagine if we traded matthews for Tkachukblast off season what a home run that would have been
He would have put the team on his back something that the 13.25 million dollar man hasn’t done in 7 years

 

[PromisedLand]

LOL. Yeah Buffalo should have won at least two cups already having drafted Eichel and Dahlin and should be favoured to win a third this year with Power in his third year. In reality Buffalo is just starting to scratch the surface. If Levi is da real deal, I like their chances to make the playoffs or better this year.

Sabres missed the playoffs by just one point last season; I think they would be better this season

 

[geo25]

I don't think the "can't perform" comment is accurate. For their careers, Toronto's core players are nearly all point per game playoff performers. The notion that they don't perform in high-stress situations really isn't true. There have certainly been some games where individually and as a group they haven't looked good, but that is true of any player or team in any sport. Winning requires that a million different unpredictable variables fall your way. Just because it doesn't happen one year or for five years doesn't mean it won't happen. A team has to put itself in the best position to have those variables fall its way, and the only consistent truth in team sports is that the best way to do that it to amass the most talent possible.

Over a 7 year period? Nah, I disagree. When other teams dial it up our core disappears. Stop with the excuses. We will never win with this core & the amount of cap space they take. Just like the definition of insanity....

Dubas ruined the best chance this franchise had had in eons for the shot at the cup.

Its a catch22 situation but "difficult decisions" unfortunately have to be made.

You can't trade Marner b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Tavares b/c he has full nmc/ntc
You can't trade Matthews b/c he has full nmc/ntc (now and moving forward)

Your option is:
1) Trade Nylander and restructure cap a bit; when Tavares is off the cap then worry about that when the time comes. Meanwhile; don't mortgate future for playoff runs until Tavares is off the cap

OR

2) Re-sign Nylander for 9 to 10 AAV; deal with the cap crunch until Tavares if off; then after having paid Marner you have about 5M in savings that can be re-allocated. The bet you would be making is that after Tavares is off the cap the three guys (Matthews, Marner, Nylander) who would be making lion's share of the cap would drag this team forward in the playoffs.

Given last 7 years of how the so called "core-4" performs in the playoffs; whats the reasonable bet you are willing to make? In there lies my suggestion.

My suggestion is now that Marner cannot be traded (I wanted him traded to re-up Nylander at a lower AAV and then reallocate cap); and Matthews ahs re-signed for 13.25 AAV (highest AAV in the league until McJesus is probably up for renewal or Drai); and given the last 7 years of their performance in the post season; you unfortunately have to trade Nylander to restucture cap and roster. It sucks but thats the reality of the situation.

Unless one has firm conviction in option 2 (I don't); I am not sure what signing Nylander at a high AAV would accomplish when it comes to team results in the post season.

Agreed 100%...

 

[notDatsyuk]

Really? Soft wingers who demand $10m AAV with a career .8ppg (regular season and playoffs) are what teams covet?

Since he started playing, there are only 9 right wingers with a higher ppg. Over the last three seasons, 150+ games, there are four: Marner, Rantanen, Pastrnak, and Kane. He's averaged between 1 and 3½ minutes less per game than them, as well as being the only one usually playing on the second line.

Marner $10.9
Rantanen $9.25
Pastrnak $11.25
Kane $5.25 (but he's 8 years older)
Nylander probably signs for $9.5

Even if you think Nylander isn't as desirable as the first three, that still leaves 29 teams where he would be an improvement over their #1.