Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Aashir]

I love what I have seen of Nylander this year but @ 11m, I'm looking to move him rather than risk him walking for nothing. What do you do this summer if you have signed Willie for $10.5mx8 and they lose in round #1? You gonna run it back? No way they box themselves in by giving 88 a NMC so odds are he will be the one to go anyway.

Yea idk about nylander at 11. I’m fine with him being resigned for anything under 10 if he keeps up a 100 point pace for the entire season. It would line him up with Matthew tkachuk’s deal from florida.
You honestly need Marner to either take the same deal or come down to 10 as well.
Tavares will go down to 5-7ish.

it sucks that none of the big 3 were/are willing to take slight discounts. RNH did for the oilers, fiala did for the kings.

 

[Stephen]

I love what I have seen of Nylander this year but @ 11m, I'm looking to move him rather than risk him walking for nothing. What do you do this summer if you have signed Willie for $10.5mx8 and they lose in round #1? You gonna run it back? No way they box themselves in by giving 88 a NMC so odds are he will be the one to go anyway.

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Knies, Cowan, Rielly and whatever else you fancy feels like a great starting place for a team 2025 and beyond.

I'm just not in love with the idea that we let Nylander, probably our second best pure talent, walk out of frustration this summer, let Tavares go next year and suddenly be down to Matthews and Marner with no control over what kind of free agents, what positions you can spend your money on. Suddenly we didn't get stronger on D, didn't have control over a G and are down to 50% of what made this team a possible contender in the first place.

There's improving the team and there's mandated changes for the sake of change.

 

[Drytoast]

I'm not following the idea that lesser, cheaper players being better at winning. Walking away from Marner and Nylander and even Tavares doesn't suddenly mean the team will have quality depth as a replacement.

We spent the entire Burke years trying to do that in free agency. They couldn't even make the playoffs then

I dunno how to explain this without using sock puppets at this point.

The cap structure of paying our forwards the bulk of the cap is a failure. We don't need a Nylander. We need a decent forward who is solid but where we can also have defense which is solid. Nylander or any winger at 11 is dumb. It's dumb. Matthews at 13+ is dumb. But we need money to spend on third line centers. On defense and on goal.

Trading a winger who demands 11 is a win regardless if you only get a decent defender back. Freeing up the cap space is necessary. Nylander is not an 11M value player. He just isn't.

 

[Americanadian]

I'm not following the idea that lesser, cheaper players being better at winning. Walking away from Marner and Nylander and even Tavares doesn't suddenly mean the team will have quality depth as a replacement.

We spent the entire Burke years trying to do that in free agency. They couldn't even make the playoffs then

When is the last time a team won the cup with 4 forwards taking up 49%+ of the roster (49% this year, more than 49% for the last 4 seasons). There is a reason some people believe depth is the answer.

 

[Drytoast]

When is the last time a team won the cup with 4 forwards taking up 49%+ of the roster (49% this year, more than 49% for the last 4 seasons). There is a reason some people believe depth is the answer.

This.

I am not willing to pay Nylander 11. And I am refusing to use him as a rental during a year where we are CLEARLY NOT WINNING ANYTHING.

 

[ToneDog]

Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Knies, Cowan, Rielly and whatever else you fancy feels like a great starting place for a team 2025 and beyond.

I'm just not in love with the idea that we let Nylander, probably our second best pure talent, walk out of frustration this summer, let Tavares go next year and suddenly be down to Matthews and Marner with no control over what kind of free agents, what positions you can spend your money on.

There's improving the team and there's mandated changes for the sake of change.

Agreed looks good on paper but if they come up short this April, you are kidding yourself. The 3 amigos are never winning you a SC. As good as Knies and Cowan look, other teams have been drafting more and as good or better prospects. It is only a matter of time before they catch up. With JT here next year @ 11m, I expect the same old, same old.

 

[ToneDog]

When is the last time a team won the cup with 4 forwards taking up 49%+ of the roster (49% this year, more than 49% for the last 4 seasons). There is a reason some people believe depth is the answer.

As Shanny would say, there is always a first time. The guy is just stringing everybody along collecting a paycheck while keeping the fans who pay for regular season tickets entertained by running the same core and expecting different results in the playoffs. This year, he doesn't even have a capable goalie.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not following the idea that lesser, cheaper players being better at winning. Walking away from Marner and Nylander and even Tavares doesn't suddenly mean the team will have quality depth as a replacement.

We spent the entire Burke years trying to do that in free agency. They couldn't even make the playoffs then

For example, let's say Willie gets $11 million.

We get the least bang for the buck with Tavares on his current contract, and that arrangement melts away in 1.5 years time, freeing up $11 million in flexibility.

In the meantime, Nylander's raise to a worst case scenario to $11 million is basically Willie's $7.0 million, plus $2.6 million in automatic cap increase (the other portion eaten up by Matthews already). Plus an extra carve out of $1.5 million from the rest of the roster.

Meanwhile, Brodie, Domi, Bertuzzi and Samsonov come off the books freeing up around $17 million and keeping any one of them is entirely optional.

And this is for one season.

 

[Stephen]

Agreed looks good on paper but if they come up short this April, you are kidding yourself. The 3 amigos are never winning you a SC. As good as Knies and Cowan look, other teams have been drafting more and as good or better prospects. It is only a matter of time before they catch up. With JT here next year @ 11m, I expect the same old, same old.

I think we most likely take a step back in 2024-25, but don't see how we get closer to winning by getting rid of Nylander and then let Tavares walk, and have to re-sign Marner, going from a Big 4 you don't like to possibly just a Big 2, or maybe just Matthews and a bunch of cap space.

Unless we go Rantanen, Draisaitl, Saros and whatever else free agent shopping but that seems like you're just looking for NBA style moonshot spending sprees.

 

[Drytoast]

For example, let's say Willie gets $11 million.

We get the least bang for the buck with Tavares on his current contract, and that arrangement melts away in 1.5 years time, freeing up $11 million in flexibility.

In the meantime, Nylander's raise to a worst case scenario to $11 million is basically Willie's $7.0 million, plus $2.6 million in automatic cap increase (the other portion eaten up by Matthews already). Plus an extra carve out of $1.5 million from the rest of the roster.

Meanwhile, Brodie, Domi, Bertuzzi and Samsonov come off the books freeing up around $17 million and keeping any one of them is entirely optional.

And this is for one season.

What money are putting towards defense, third line center or goal? Why the f*** do I want to continue paying Nylander a high percentage of the cap?

 

[TMLegend]

I dunno how to explain this without using sock puppets at this point.

The cap structure of paying our forwards the bulk of the cap is a failure. We don't need a Nylander. We need a decent forward who is solid but where we can also have defense which is solid. Nylander or any winger at 11 is dumb. It's dumb. Matthews at 13+ is dumb. But we need money to spend on third line centers. On defense and on goal.

Trading a winger who demands 11 is a win regardless if you only get a decent defender back. Freeing up the cap space is necessary. Nylander is not an 11M value player. He just isn't.

You're basically saying you'd rather have Bertuzzi + Ryan Graves than William Nylander.

I know which one I'd rather have. I'd rather retain the elite talent than disperse his cap hit to two lesser players.

After Tavares contract expires after next season the cap problems will largely disappear anyways. Letting Nylander walk or trading him is incredibly short sighted to me.

 

[ToneDog]

I think we most likely take a step back in 2024-25, but don't see how we get closer to winning by getting rid of Nylander and then let Tavares walk, and have to re-sign Marner, going from a Big 4 you don't like to possibly just a Big 2, or maybe just Matthews and a bunch of cap space.

Unless we go Rantanen, Draisaitl, Saros and whatever else free agent shopping but that seems like you're just looking for NBA style moonshot spending sprees.

I agree and if so why not cash in on Nylander with a combination of picks and top prospects, if they decide not to go for it this TDL because they see the warts and that there are too many holes to fill? Find a team that has accumulated a number of high end prospects and see if they are willing overpay. Philly, LA and Seattle? LA traded their top prospects for Carter and Richards when they thought they could them over the top. I can see a team thinking Willie might be that piece.

 

[Stephen]

What money are putting towards defense, third line center or goal? Why the f*** do I want to continue paying Nylander a high percentage of the cup?

Let me give you the big picture if you're not appreciating it.

Nylander is our leading scorer and on a 1.4 PPG scoring clip, on pace for 115 points. This offensive production represents the 3rd highest single season in 106 years of Leafs history behind Doug Gilmour's 127 in 1992-93 and Darryl Sittler's 117 points in 1977-78.

And you're talking to me about depth? You can't figure out the middle of the roster with $17 million in restructuring after Brodie, Bertuzzi, Domi and Samsonov come off the books? You can't wait a damn year for $11 million of Tavares to vanish?

I'm not opposed to big changes, but don't talk about 3C, defensemen and goalies without names. And I don't want to hear about how we just need a 40 goal, 100 point scoring winger to finish off the team when we're deep and medicore again.

 

[Menzinger]

When is the last time a team won the cup with 4 forwards taking up 49%+ of the roster (49% this year, more than 49% for the last 4 seasons). There is a reason some people believe depth is the answer.

I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it is to get quality depth pieces. Having money to spend on a position doesn't suddenly mean you're actually going to get bang for your buck

 

[TMLegend]

I agree and if so why not cash in on Nylander with a combination of picks and top prospects, if they decide not to go for it this TDL because they see the warts and that there are too many holes to fill? Find a team that has accumulated a number of high end prospects and see if they are willing overpay. Philly, LA and Seattle? LA traded their top prospects for Carter and Richards when they thought they could them over the top. I can see a team thinking Willie might be that piece.

You're not getting high end prospects for a rental...

The Leafs will get a late first, a B level prospect, and a cap dump at best if they trade Nylander this year.

 

[Stephen]

I agree and if so why not cash in on Nylander with a combination of picks and top prospects, if they decide not to go for it this TDL because they see the warts and that there are too many holes to fill? Find a team that has accumulated a number of high end prospects and see if they are willing overpay. Philly, LA and Seattle? LA traded their top prospects for Carter and Richards when they thought they could them over the top. I can see a team thinking Willie might be that piece.

I'm not opposed to selling off this year either, but why wouldn't we be selling off Bertuzzi, Brodie, Domi, McCabe and padding out the org depth this year?

The whole purge Nylander game. Makes. No. F'ing. Sense.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If you get a d-man for him, the chances of the d-man asking for 11 million a year are very slim. Come on man. Stop being so thick headed

SInce you insist on being rude, I'm done with you. Have a nice day.

 

[ToneDog]

You're not getting high end prospects for a rental...

The Leafs will get a late first, a B level prospect, and a cap dump at best if they trade Nylander this year.

Agreed. IMO they will not trade him as a rental unless the fall off a cliff. If I am trading him it would have to be to a team that Wilie immediately resigns with, as LA did with PLD.

 

[Menzinger]

You're not getting high end prospects for a rental...

The Leafs will get a late first, a B level prospect, and a cap dump at best if they trade Nylander this year.

Yep. We have plenty of evidence of what 1st line wingers get as rentals, and it's not mind blowing. 1st + B level prospect or another pick

We're not getting the Eichel on level return for 50 games worth of Nylander

 

[Stephen]

I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it is to get quality depth pieces. Having money to spend on a position doesn't suddenly mean you're actually going to get bang for your buck

I think people see the pieces we are missing to be a full on contender/favorite to win and are weighing the possibility of solving all of our problems with one change and not appreciating the downgrade they are proposing:

Nylander making $11 million in a worst case scenario basically looks like $10.5 million in cap for Bertuzzi and Brodie if we're just talking about decent UFA results with upper middle class salaries. Or Jarnkrok, Domi and Brodie. Would that push us over the top?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I love what I have seen of Nylander this year but @ 11m, I'm looking to move him rather than risk him walking for nothing. What do you do this summer if you have signed Willie for $10.5mx8 and they lose in round #1? You gonna run it back? No way they box themselves in by giving 88 a NMC so odds are he will be the one to go anyway.

Depends on the risk IMO. If you think there's a good chance of getting it done, even in the summer then I'd take that risk. If I knew for sure he was going to leave, that's another story.

I'm not opposed to selling off this year either, but why wouldn't we be selling off Bertuzzi, Brodie, Domi, McCabe and padding out the org depth this year?

The whole purge Nylander game. Makes. No. F'ing. Sense.

Exactly. I'd much, much rather sell off all those guys than Nylander.

 

[Stephen]

You're not getting high end prospects for a rental...

The Leafs will get a late first, a B level prospect, and a cap dump at best if they trade Nylander this year.

I challenge anyone to come up with 2 high end prospect names who are not in the NHL, who belong to a Top 8 contender right now, with the ability to absorb $7 million or so in Nylander's cap space (less so by the deadline) without asking the Leafs to take on a bad contract.

I challenge anyone to identify a contender currently overflowing with number one defensemen who wish they had one less.

I'm willing to hear it, but I bet you these scenarios don't exist.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm not opposed to selling off this year either, but why wouldn't we be selling off Bertuzzi, Brodie, Domi, McCabe and padding out the org depth this year?

The whole purge Nylander game. Makes. No. F'ing. Sense.

Purge is not the right word. I look at it as selling high for a player we cannot afford to pay because we already have 3 overpaid soft forwards who have not been able to get us over the goal line 5 years in a row. To make it worse, other than Boston, they have been the favourites with the home ice advantage.

If you want to overpay 88, start looking to move Tavares this summer after he is paid his bonus. Yes, he has a NMC but he can be forced to waive like Mcdonaugh was. Then sign Lindholm as your #2C.

 

[fahad203]

Last 10 games or so he has been glorified Phil Kessel
If you want to give Phil Kessel 10+ million dollars, go ahead.

 

[ToneDog]

I challenge anyone to come up with 2 high end prospect names who are not in the NHL, who belong to a Top 8 contender right now, with the ability to absorb $7 million or so in Nylander's cap space (less so by the deadline) without asking the Leafs to take on a bad contract.

I challenge anyone to identify a contender currently overflowing with number one defensemen who wish they had one less.

I'm willing to hear it, but I bet you these scenarios don't exist.

Leafs can easily retain 50% at the TLD leaving $1.8m. Easy to find a team willing to retain half of that. I am not familiar with teams' prospects pool. I know LA has Clarke who should be top 4 dman or better. Would you take Byfield and Clarke for Willie? That this the kind of deal I'd be looking to make.