Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[nuck]

I think the Leafs are better off overpaying Nylander if it comes to that and dealing with the one year of cap hell afterwards waiting for Tavares 11M to come off the books.

Even if the Leafs replace him with one of the top UFA's such as Lindholm, Reinhart, Guentzel, Stamkos they're very likely to take a hit on production for the sake of modest at best cap savings.

Except they would have traded Willie for a solid return as well. If you are going to pay UFA rates anyway why not get the assets and the player? This lineup is no better than the one that went into that last playoffs and did little. Why are people so desperate to run it back as though they were knocking on the door of a Cup? "Look we can afford Willie if..." But why, they aren't that deep or that cap friendly everywhere else? He is a very good player but 40pts in 50 playoff games doesn't make him the short route to winning. Nobody is untouchable.

Some people are trying to make this into a Willie vs Marner thing (it isn't, he is just more tradeable). Keeping all the good forwards you can is the failed Dubas strategy where you can't afford good defense but look at all these danglers!. They actually shouldn't be spending any Willie savings on another scoring forward because that's more of the same thing they have done since KD year 1.

If no Willie then a D upgrade with some cost control. Their top 3 is still better than St Louis or Vegas. They just need a coach and a goalie and they might have 1 of those things if Woll comes back strong.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Last year after a full season he was 16th amongst nhl centers. lol keep trying I guess… but maybe not here in the Nylander thread

That's what I said.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Insider Trading: Extension talks continue between Toronto Maple Leafs, William Nylander | TSN.ca

Leafs, Nylander any closer on a deal?

Gino Reda: When we were at the Board of Governors meetings, team president Brendan Shanahan laughed when we asked if he was worried about how much he was going to have to pay William Nylander. There’s still nothing official between the two sides. Are they any closer?

Chris Johnston: Well, they’re certainly working away at it and I think that’s maybe why there is no worry. Because at this point in time, it does seem that the Leafs and William Nylander’s camp are on the same page on a number of fronts. For one, neither of them want to talk about this publicly, obviously they’re keeping a lid on negotiations as much as they can. But secondly, I think one thing that remains unchanged is what Nylander absolutely wants to be a Maple Leaf long-term. It’s still his goal and his camp’s goal to get a deal done. The Leafs want to sign a player who has had a tremendous season for them so far this year. And so the fact that the talks remain, that there does seem to be some optimism there, I think it’s a positive sign as we look toward a new year when they’ll try to get a deal done.

 

[ToneDog]

Except they would have traded Willie for a solid return as well. If you are going to pay UFA rates anyway why not get the assets and the player? This lineup is no better than the one that went into that last playoffs and did little. Why are people so desperate to run it back as though they were knocking on the door of a Cup? "Look we can afford Willie if..." But why, they aren't that deep or that cap friendly everywhere else? He is a very good player but 40pts in 50 playoff games doesn't make him the short route to winning. Nobody is untouchable.

Some people are trying to make this into a Willie vs Marner thing (it isn't, he is just more tradeable). Keeping all the good forwards you can is the failed Dubas strategy where you can't afford good defense but look at all these danglers!. They actually shouldn't be spending any Willie savings on another scoring forward because that's more of the same thing they have done since KD year 1.

If no Willie then a D upgrade with some cost control. Their top 3 is still better than St Louis or Vegas. They just need a coach and a goalie and they might have 1 of those things if Woll comes back strong.

I'd be calling Francis to see how desperate he is for a goal scorer.

 

[Drytoast]

After tonight it's fairly evident that we have some glaring holes on this roster specifically on defense and in goal. You may as well add third line center to that because we couldn't afford to keep Kerfoot.

And if the thought here is that the cap is going up that the only positions that we should be spending extra money on are again on a bunch of forwards with no consideration or thought in plugging the holes on defense which we've had for the last 7 years and in goal which we've had for the last 7 years enjoy perpetual failure.

 

[centipede2233]

Here’s the thing, the leafs window for contending for a Stanley cup is currently closed. they need to take a step back, trade Bertuzzi and domi at the deadline with max retention and recover any picks they can. With the coaching, defence and goaltending, this team is not going anywhere this year or next. It’s the 2025/26 season where the window opens back up.

 

[rumman]

Why should Nylander take a discount when marner/matthews/Tavares took every penny they could, and maxed their years for profit too. If Nylander should take a hometown discount...for his next team. Make it a winner.

I don’t think 88 took a discount on his contract, I think he’s earned a significant raise on his next contract. And yes 34 and 16 squeezed the nickel until the beaver farted so if that’s a concern of Willy’s I expect he’ll want to be overpaid too……..

 

[rumman]

After tonight it's fairly evident that we have some glaring holes on this roster specifically on defense and in goal. You may as well add third line center to that because we couldn't afford to keep Kerfoot.

And if the thought here is that the cap is going up that the only positions that we should be spending extra money on are again on a bunch of forwards with no consideration or thought in plugging the holes on defense which we've had for the last 7 years and in goal which we've had for the last 7 years enjoy perpetual failure.

Who really needed last night’s game to conclude the D is Swiss cheese, and the goaltender is highly questionable? When the game tightens up in the playoffs these problems will nly become exemplified……..

 

[ToneDog]

I don’t think 88 took a discount on his contract, I think he’s earned a significant raise on his next contract. And yes 34 and 16 squeezed the nickel until the beaver farted so if that’s a concern of Willy’s I expect he’ll want to be overpaid too……..

If Dreger is correct and he is looking at $11m now, I'd be seriously shopping him. You will never win with 4 overpaid playoff underperformers. Sorry that incudes Willie because he's taken nights off. Not one of them can dominate and win a series IMO. Rielly is the only one who has performed for the majority of a series. The others have their moments. Matty and Mitch slowly fade the deeper into a series and JT is too slow and he's lost his hands. He is better when he is fresher, but nobody remains fresh when you are playing a game every two nights against the same team and for 4 series.

 

[Jojalu]

Who really needed last night’s game to conclude the D is Swiss cheese, and the goaltender is highly questionable? When the game tightens up in the playoffs these problems will nly become exemplified……..

I really believe you have to throw out all blowout wins and losses. They just sort of happen every once and awhile.

Pretty obvious what the Leafs strengths and weaknesses are.

Now it's up to BT to decide if he thinks he can fix it this year, or if he wants to take a 2/3 year approach including possibly tradin Willy

 

[Drytoast]

Who really needed last night’s game to conclude the D is Swiss cheese, and the goaltender is highly questionable? When the game tightens up in the playoffs these problems will nly become exemplified……..

I mean...ya. I know this. You know this. But the majority of fans in our forum seem to think that we can afford to pay a player like William Nylander just because the cap is going up a few mil.

Matthews already ate what? half the cap increase? So I guess their plan is to retain Willy with the other half? While not leaving ANY to pay more to the other more needed positions and just hope we get the right combination of rental/fringe players looking to increase their value because they got to play some minutes with Marner?

Nylander should be traded now. No. We should not keep him as a rental because it's very evident this team doesn't have it this year. And we certainly can't afford him. We have holes. A trade would help shore up those holes while retaining talent. Losing him for nothing would be the most ultimate failure of this administration.

Marner and Taveres need to both come in cheaper if they want to stay. Tavares at about half his current value.

That's the harsh reality of where we actually are.

 

[ULF_55]

I like that he's being used on the PK.

Not the greatest at it, but heck, you need more than one RW to rotate on the PK.

Might save some energy for others once the games get tight.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nylander should be traded now. No. We should not keep him as a rental because it's very evident this team doesn't have it this year. And we certainly can't afford him. We have holes. A trade would help shore up those holes while retaining talent. Losing him for nothing would be the most ultimate failure of this administration.

Marner and Taveres need to both come in cheaper if they want to stay. Tavares at about half his current value.

That's the harsh reality of where we actually are.

Anyone trading for Willie as a rental would be a contender so they would be giving up futures meaning no holes would be "shored up". Trading Willie isn't "retaining talent", it's actually the opposite of retaining talent. Trading him isn't going to solve this teams problems, resigning him won't either, we're basically just f***ed no matter what.

Here's the harsh reality the way I see it. Our regulation PTS% is .517, good for 6th in the East, and 12th overall. The next 3 teams are at .516/.515 so we're just a hair above 15th. Were 9th overall by PTS% which is because we're running super hot in shootouts and as a result, the difference between our PTS% and our regulation PTS% is much bigger that it is for any other team this year, or last year. Anyone who thinks this is sustainable just doesn't understand how much short term variance in involved in OT/shootouts.

We're 30 games into the season and in regulation hockey, this is a bubble team. I think we're capable of much better, that is assuming that our goaltending improves once Woll is back and we stop playing Samsonov but we're still not close to being a serious contender. We play pond hockey most nights and pull off some entertaining comebacks now and then, fun to watch when it works. When it doesn't though, well then you sometimes get what happened last night.

 

[Stephen]

If Dreger is correct and he is looking at $11m now, I'd be seriously shopping him. You will never win with 4 overpaid playoff underperformers. Sorry that incudes Willie because he's taken nights off. Not one of them can dominate and win a series IMO. Rielly is the only one who has performed for the majority of a series. The others have their moments. Matty and Mitch slowly fade the deeper into a series and JT is too slow and he's lost his hands. He is better when he is fresher, but nobody remains fresh when you are playing a game every two nights against the same team and for 4 series.

Three things.

One, whenever it comes to debating whether we should purge Nylander or Marner, we fall into the trap of comparing what Nylander/Marner is vs the Field, which represents all the solutions at all the positions, all the star players you'd prefer, all the stud defensemen you'd rather have, all the more playoff battle tested warriors, etc. I'm not opposed to a move, but there's never really a concrete name or scenario whenever it comes time, because it doesn't seem like we're getting rid of one of those guys and getting Charlie McAvoy or Cale Makar at the same time...

Two, I'd rather the Leafs make the trade at a time of their choosing and not because of contract timelines. I see the Tavares deal coming up in 1.5 years, and I see a scenario where they could easily go from a Big 4 down to a Top 2 just by mishandling Nylander and then walking away from JT anyway. I think of how the Blues moved off Pietrangelo, planned for life without him by bringing in Faulk, Krug and more depth on D and it just ruined their whole program.

Three, if Nylander or Marner get moved off, it has to be after the Tavares contract has expired and they have more clarity. We get a lot of cap relief once that contract is done and the cap will also be rising. So we might be able to get back to the original configuration of Matthews, Marner, Nylander as in 2018, and build out the support cast differently anyway.

 

[arso40]

If Dreger is correct and he is looking at $11m now, I'd be seriously shopping him. You will never win with 4 overpaid playoff underperformers. Sorry that incudes Willie because he's taken nights off. Not one of them can dominate and win a series IMO. Rielly is the only one who has performed for the majority of a series. The others have their moments. Matty and Mitch slowly fade the deeper into a series and JT is too slow and he's lost his hands. He is better when he is fresher, but nobody remains fresh when you are playing a game every two nights against the same team and for 4 series.

Where did his hands go?? Like it’s crazy I was just saying this to myself watching him two games ago

 

[Drytoast]

Anyone trading for Willie as a rental would be a contender so they would be giving up futures meaning no holes would be "shored up". Trading Willie isn't "retaining talent", it's actually the opposite of retaining talent. Trading him isn't going to solve this teams problems, resigning him won't either, we're basically just f***ed no matter what.

Here's the harsh reality the way I see it. Our regulation PTS% is .517, good for 6th in the East, and 12th overall. The next 3 teams are at .516/.515 so we're just a hair above 15th. Were 9th overall by PTS% which is because we're running super hot in shootouts and as a result, the difference between our PTS% and our regulation PTS% is much bigger that it is for any other team this year, or last year. Anyone who thinks this is sustainable just doesn't understand how much short term variance in involved in OT/shootouts.

We're 30 games into the season and in regulation hockey, this is a bubble team. I think we're capable of much better, that is assuming that our goaltending improves once Woll is back and we stop playing Samsonov but we're still not close to being a serious contender. We play pond hockey most nights and pull off some entertaining comebacks now and then, fun to watch when it works. When it doesn't though, well then you sometimes get what happened last night.

Surely there is a dance partner out there strong on d but lacking up front. This isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Second. Even trading Willie for picks is SOMETHING. Letting a talent like him walk for nothing is the dumbest shit you can do long term or immediate for the leafs.

 

[arso40]

Three things.

One, whenever it comes to debating whether we should purge Nylander or Marner, we fall into the trap of comparing what Nylander/Marner is vs the Field, which represents all the solutions at all the positions, all the star players you'd prefer, all the stud defensemen you'd rather have, all the more playoff battle tested warriors, etc. I'm not opposed to a move, but there's never really a concrete name or scenario whenever it comes time, because it doesn't seem like we're getting rid of one of those guys and getting Charlie McAvoy or Cale Makar at the same time...

Two, I'd rather the Leafs make the trade at a time of their choosing and not because of contract timelines. I see the Tavares deal coming up in 1.5 years, and I see a scenario where they could easily go from a Big 4 down to a Top 2 just by mishandling Nylander and then walking away from JT anyway. I think of how the Blues moved off Pietrangelo, planned for life without him by bringing in Faulk, Krug and more depth on D and it just ruined their whole program.

Three, if Nylander or Marner get moved off, it has to be after the Tavares contract has expired and they have more clarity. We get a lot of cap relief once that contract is done and the cap will also be rising. So we might be able to get back to the original configuration of Matthews, Marner, Nylander as in 2018, and build out the support cast differently anyway.

Exactly, which was always the vision from the beginning we just need our dman we have our goalie we’re Really close we’re a captain jt contract expiring away from lord Stanley could still get it this year too

 

[arso40]

I mean...ya. I know this. You know this. But the majority of fans in our forum seem to think that we can afford to pay a player like William Nylander just because the cap is going up a few mil.

Matthews already ate what? half the cap increase? So I guess their plan is to retain Willy with the other half? While not leaving ANY to pay more to the other more needed positions and just hope we get the right combination of rental/fringe players looking to increase their value because they got to play some minutes with Marner?

Nylander should be traded now. No. We should not keep him as a rental because it's very evident this team doesn't have it this year. And we certainly can't afford him. We have holes. A trade would help shore up those holes while retaining talent. Losing him for nothing would be the most ultimate failure of this administration.

Marner and Taveres need to both come in cheaper if they want to stay. Tavares at about half his current value.

That's the harsh reality of where we actually are.

I could say it would be trading nylander cause you gave jt a no move clause that handcuffed the original vision I can’t get behind that when there’s an alternative that allows you to correct your mistake and manifest your vision marner and Matthews cannot do it alone in my opinion

 

[Gary Nylund]

Surely there is a dance partner out there strong on d but lacking up front. This isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Second. Even trading Willie for picks is SOMETHING. Letting a talent like him walk for nothing is the dumbest shit you can do long term or immediate for the leafs.

If you get a Dman for him, it's going to be a rental which solves nothing. TB did that same thing you call "dumbest shit" with Stamkos and guess what, he signed with them anyway.

If you're going to trade Nylander for futures you may as well tear it all down which you can't really do anyway because of those pesky NMC's. The time to make a move was after losing to MTL, moving Nylander as a rental isn't going to make this team a contender, not in the short term, and not any time during the Matthews era.

 

[Stephen]

Surely there is a dance partner out there strong on d but lacking up front. This isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Second. Even trading Willie for picks is SOMETHING. Letting a talent like him walk for nothing is the dumbest shit you can do long term or immediate for the leafs.

Yeah, it’s extremely out of the realm of possibility. Aside from the fact that it’s no longer the early 90s when blockbusters mid season occurred… If you could name a contender built mostly on D and lacking firepower, you’ve probably narrowed it down to one team. Carolina. If you drill down on their D, you’re not getting Slavin.

There isn’t a magical team out there with 3x Charlie McAvoy’s and itching to get rid of one.

 

[Menzinger]

I mean...ya. I know this. You know this. But the majority of fans in our forum seem to think that we can afford to pay a player like William Nylander just because the cap is going up a few mil.

Matthews already ate what? half the cap increase? So I guess their plan is to retain Willy with the other half? While not leaving ANY to pay more to the other more needed positions and just hope we get the right combination of rental/fringe players looking to increase their value because they got to play some minutes with Marner?

Nylander should be traded now. No. We should not keep him as a rental because it's very evident this team doesn't have it this year. And we certainly can't afford him. We have holes. A trade would help shore up those holes while retaining talent. Losing him for nothing would be the most ultimate failure of this administration.

Marner and Taveres need to both come in cheaper if they want to stay. Tavares at about half his current value.

That's the harsh reality of where we actually are.

Walking away from star talent to have more capspace for free agency isn't exactly a clear blueprint for success either. You're still overpaying guys, just less talented older versions of guys

 

[Drytoast]

If you get a Dman for him, it's going to be a rental which solves nothing. TB did that same thing you call "dumbest shit" with Stamkos and guess what, he signed with them anyway.

If you're going to trade Nylander for futures you may as well tear it all down which you can't really do anyway because of those pesky NMC's. The time to make a move was after losing to MTL, moving Nylander as a rental isn't going to make this team a contender, not in the short term, and not any time during the Matthews era.

If you get a d-man for him, the chances of the d-man asking for 11 million a year are very slim. Come on man. Stop being so thick headed

Walking away from star talent to have more capspace for free agency isn't exactly a clear blueprint for success either. You're still overpaying guys, just less talented older versions of guys

You are walking away from a forward whom you can't win with. Who is requesting to eat more of your cap. You trade him for somebody who's decent. Not the best of the best but who won't eat your cap?

 

[ToneDog]

Three things.

One, whenever it comes to debating whether we should purge Nylander or Marner, we fall into the trap of comparing what Nylander/Marner is vs the Field, which represents all the solutions at all the positions, all the star players you'd prefer, all the stud defensemen you'd rather have, all the more playoff battle tested warriors, etc. I'm not opposed to a move, but there's never really a concrete name or scenario whenever it comes time, because it doesn't seem like we're getting rid of one of those guys and getting Charlie McAvoy or Cale Makar at the same time...

Two, I'd rather the Leafs make the trade at a time of their choosing and not because of contract timelines. I see the Tavares deal coming up in 1.5 years, and I see a scenario where they could easily go from a Big 4 down to a Top 2 just by mishandling Nylander and then walking away from JT anyway. I think of how the Blues moved off Pietrangelo, planned for life without him by bringing in Faulk, Krug and more depth on D and it just ruined their whole program.

Three, if Nylander or Marner get moved off, it has to be after the Tavares contract has expired and they have more clarity. We get a lot of cap relief once that contract is done and the cap will also be rising. So we might be able to get back to the original configuration of Matthews, Marner, Nylander as in 2018, and build out the support cast differently anyway.

I love what I have seen of Nylander this year but @ 11m, I'm looking to move him rather than risk him walking for nothing. What do you do this summer if you have signed Willie for $10.5mx8 and they lose in round #1? You gonna run it back? No way they box themselves in by giving 88 a NMC so odds are he will be the one to go anyway.

 

[Menzinger]

If you get a d-man for him, the chances of the d-man asking for 11 million a year are very slim. Come on man. Stop being so thick headed


You are walking away from a forward whom you can't win with. Who is requesting to eat more of your cap. You trade him for somebody who's decent. Not the best of the best but who won't eat your cap?

I'm not following the idea that lesser, cheaper players being better at winning. Walking away from Marner and Nylander and even Tavares doesn't suddenly mean the team will have quality depth as a replacement.

We spent the entire Burke years trying to do that in free agency. They couldn't even make the playoffs then

 

[nuck]

Walking away from star talent to have more capspace for free agency isn't exactly a clear blueprint for success either. You're still overpaying guys, just less talented older versions of guys

But what if they are guys that are at a position you are actually weak in? And overpaying a player at $8M doesn't have the same cap ramifications that a $10M+ player does. And all the $10M+ guys want NM as well or at least the home grown ones expect it. Pasta didn't get a full NM but Willie and later Mitch will have them.

Cap space isn't just for free agency, it determines who you can afford to trade for and whether you need to burn more assets for retention. They have no value contracts, they need to get off the cycle of setting the mark with every deal and that starts with Willie. You don't pay him at all, you trade him and let another club fulfill Michael's financial dreams.

You don't need a big 3 unless one of them is a cheap #3 like Kessel for the Pens. Having two $10M wingers makes zero sense when your top defenceman is Mo, and giving Willie a raise won't really change the mix for the playoffs, it will just cement it.