Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[nuck]

For example, let's say Willie gets $11 million.

We get the least bang for the buck with Tavares on his current contract, and that arrangement melts away in 1.5 years time, freeing up $11 million in flexibility.

In the meantime, Nylander's raise to a worst case scenario to $11 million is basically Willie's $7.0 million, plus $2.6 million in automatic cap increase (the other portion eaten up by Matthews already). Plus an extra carve out of $1.5 million from the rest of the roster.

Meanwhile, Brodie, Domi, Bertuzzi and Samsonov come off the books freeing up around $17 million and keeping any one of them is entirely optional.

And this is for one season.

But none of their replacements will be free of charge. If you need better than this years Brodie to win then why would one expect that guy wouldn't cost more than Brodie did in 2020? And do they want to be handcuffed to a budget of less than $3.5M for Sammy's replacement if a legit 1-1a becomes available? Robertson and Lilly and Benoit will get raises and its back to dumpster diving.

When the cap goes up, every team in the league has more money so FAs increase just like its own players. I don't know that Bert and Domi are enough to do it for this club with the current defense and goaltending questions and I don't think their replacements are likely to be signable next year for the same money. I don't see how this team can improve with another $10M+ forward against next years cap. Three are too many, never mind four.

This teams top salaries were negotiated with the expectation the cap would be at least $6M higher by this season where clubs like the Bruins almost completely dodged that bullet.

 

[ToneDog]

Last 10 games or so he has been glorified Phil Kessel
If you want to give Phil Kessel 10+ million dollars, go ahead.

He's come down to earth some but he has been really good. Is he in Pasta's class. Not a chance.

But none of their replacements will be free of charge. If you need better than this years Brodie to win then why would one expect that guy wouldn't cost more than Brodie did in 2020? And do they want to be handcuffed to a budget of less than $3.5M for Sammy's replacement if a legit 1-1a becomes available? Robertson and Lilly and Benoit will get raises and its are back to dumpster diving.

When the cap goes up, every team in the league has more money so FAs increase just like its own players. I don't know that Bert and Domi are enough to do it for this club with the current defense and goaltending questions and I don't think their replacements are likely to be signable next year for the same money. I don't see how this team can improve with another $10M+ forward against next years cap. Three are too many, never mind four.

This teams top salaries were negotiated with the expectation the cap would be at least $6M higher by this season where clubs like the Bruins almost completely dodge that bullet.

To make matters worse, maybe Matty is performing up to his contract 75% of the season.

 

[Northernguy10]

Agreed. IMO they will not trade him as a rental unless the fall off a cliff. If I am trading him it would have to be to a team that Wilie immediately resigns with, as LA did with PLD.

I don't pretend to know the values of players but just throwing names out there. I wonder if something around Brandt Clarke (LA) or Mason McTavish (Ducks) would be possible... Of course Nylander would have to agree to a long term deal with his new team and I don't know if you can do that in the NHL or not. LA is kind of in a window with Doughty and Kopitar not getting any younger. Players/picks/cap considerations are all factors of course but I can't see us continuing to run the same core out there year after year especially at those salaries... Not saying those 2 teams or even the Leafs would 'go there' but just looking for armchair GM solutions...lol

 

[Northernguy10]

Leafs can easily retain 50% at the TLD leaving $1.8m. Easy to find a team willing to retain half of that. I am not familiar with teams' prospects pool. I know LA has Clarke who should be top 4 dman or better. Would you take Byfield and Clarke for Willie? That this the kind of deal I'd be looking to make.

Funny you mentioned Clarke...I just made a comment about him as a possibility..great minds think alike... I won't mention the second part of that saying though...lol

 

[Americanadian]

I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it is to get quality depth pieces. Having money to spend on a position doesn't suddenly mean you're actually going to get bang for your buck

You aren’t wrong. Had the Leafs had cap space though they could have used the assets they spent on rentals to acquire players with term.

 

[Stephen]

But none of their replacements will be free of charge. If you need better than this years Brodie to win then why would one expect that guy wouldn't cost more than Brodie did in 2020? And do they want to be handcuffed to a budget of less than $3.5M for Sammy's replacement if a legit 1-1a becomes available? Robertson and Lilly and Benoit will get raises and its are back to dumpster diving.

When the cap goes up, every team in the league has more money so FAs increase just like its own players. I don't know that Bert and Domi are enough to do it for this club with the current defense and goaltending questions and I don't think their replacements are likely to be signable next year for the same money. I don't see how this team can improve with another $10M+ forward against next years cap. Three are too many, never mind four.

This teams top salaries were negotiated with the expectation the cap would be at least $6M higher by this season where clubs like the Bruins almost completely dodge that bullet.

Again, moving Nylander is always about solving ALL the problems without considering what is being subtracted from the Leafs, which is currently the third highest scoring season in franchise history.

Some people want depth. Some people want defense. Some want goaltending. Some people want the cap equivalent of financial conservativism. You’re not getting all those things in one shot without a massive downgrade. And you’re nowhere closer to a cup.

How many teams and fanbases are saying, man once we trade that 115 point forward and $11 million for Jake Allen, JG Pageau and Brett Pesce we’ll really be rocking.

 

[Americanadian]

Again, moving Nylander is always about solving ALL the problems without considering what is being subtracted from the Leafs, which is currently the third highest scoring season in franchise history.

Some people want depth. Some people want defense. Some want goaltending. Some people want the cap equivalent of financial conservativism. You’re not getting all those things in one shot without a massive downgrade. And you’re nowhere closer to a cup.

Let's say the Leafs were to pull off my suggested move of Nylander (50% retained)+McCabe for Miller+Lafreniere. Does that push them closer to a cup this year? No. Are they winning the cup this year? Unlikely. With Miller providing a significant upgrade on McCabe next year and Lafreniere providing 50%-60% of Nylander's production in the top 6 next year you save ~6M over McCabe+Nylander for a marginal downgrade. You also get 6 years younger at both positions. You are then free to spend that 6M to upgrade the roster in a strong free agency period.

 

[ULF_55]

Last 10 games or so he has been glorified Phil Kessel
If you want to give Phil Kessel 10+ million dollars, go ahead.

Yeah, wonder how close the voting was for the Conn Smythe?

Reputation does play a part.

 

[ToneDog]

Let's say the Leafs were to pull off my suggested move of Nylander (50% retained)+McCabe for Miller+Lafreniere. Does that push them closer to a cup this year? No. Are they winning the cup this year? Unlikely. With Miller providing a significant upgrade on McCabe next year and Lafreniere providing 50%-60% of Nylander's production in the top 6 next year you save ~6M over McCabe+Nylander for a marginal downgrade. You also get 6 years younger at both positions. You are then free to spend that 6M to upgrade the roster in a strong free agency period.

Trade Nylander - sign Lindholm. Double dipping is how to improve the roster when your prospect pool is virtually empty.

 

[Americanadian]

Trade Nylander - sign Lindholm. Double dipping is how to improve the roster when your prospect pool is virtually empty.

The older 2C who allegedly turned down 9M probably isn’t a wise investment. If Nylander was moved in a deal for futures I’d be looking at Roy+Stephenson for the same price.

 

[rumman]

Yea idk about nylander at 11. I’m fine with him being resigned for anything under 10 if he keeps up a 100 point pace for the entire season. It would line him up with Matthew tkachuk’s deal from florida.
You honestly need Marner to either take the same deal or come down to 10 as well.
Tavares will go down to 5-7ish.

it sucks that none of the big 3 were/are willing to take slight discounts. RNH did for the oilers, fiala did for the kings.

My guess is 88 will seek maximum dollars and won’t care if it’s from the Leafs or another team which he’s earned the right to do, if he does decide to play elsewhere will Leaf Nation give him the Tavaras treatment?

 

[NinjaKick]

you either get him signed before the trade deadline... or you trade him before the trade deadline... Don't get me wrong, I love Willy... but we can't afford to lose him for nothing.

the ultimate test on how I will judge Treliving is our trade deadline and how we handle the Willy situation

 

[rumman]

you either get him signed before the trade deadline... or you trade him before the trade deadline... Don't get me wrong, I love Willy... but we can't afford to lose him for nothing.

the ultimate test on how I will judge Treliving is our trade deadline and how we handle the Willy situation

One would think Tre won’t put his hand on the stove top again, but you never know, I think 88 will be elsewhere next year because I truly think he wants to see what free agency has to offer which in all fairness is his right, Tre can’t let him walk……..

 

[Drytoast]

You're basically saying you'd rather have Bertuzzi + Ryan Graves than William Nylander.

I know which one I'd rather have. I'd rather retain the elite talent than disperse his cap hit to two lesser players.

After Tavares contract expires after next season the cap problems will largely disappear anyways. Letting Nylander walk or trading him is incredibly short sighted to me.

I think so far since his being in the NHL, teams have somehow managed to win with less raw talent than the Leafs. As a matter of fact, we've been bullied mostly by teams with less raw talent then the Leafs. Columbus, Florida, Montreal...

We need to allocate more percent of our cap to our weaker positions. Defense. Goal. Third line center.

Nylander taking 11 works against this. And if we give him his 11. We are signing on for failure for however long we've decided to commit to him at that percent/price.

 

[rumman]

Yep. We have plenty of evidence of what 1st line wingers get as rentals, and it's not mind blowing. 1st + B level prospect or another pick

We're not getting the Eichel on level return for 50 games worth of Nylander

If 88 was traded I pray to god it’s not for another forward, that would just be stupid stupid stupid. The D and goaltending are this team’s weakness, how about some of the cap going to the real reason this team sucks in the playoffs……..

 

[Confucius]

Before we got Marner, William, Mathews, JT we were never higher than 23rd and as low as 30th in a 30 team league , for over a decade. Except the shortened 2013 season where we only played 48 games and finished 9th. Anyway as we diverge away from the core 4 we will be doormats once again. Bet on it.

 

[rumman]

Before we got Marner, William, Mathews, JT we were never higher than 23rd and as low as 30th in a 30 team league , for over a decade. Except the shortened 2013 season where we only played 48 games and finished 9th. Anyway as we diverge away from the core 4 we will be doormats once again. Bet on it.

Regular season heroes, playoff zeros………

 

[ToneDog]

The older 2C who allegedly turned down 9M probably isn’t a wise investment. If Nylander was moved in a deal for futures I’d be looking at Roy+Stephenson for the same price.

Johnny Hockey turned down more money from Calgary to go to Columbus. I am assuming he'll take less than Willie.

 

[Confucius]

Regular season heroes, playoff zeros………

Well the regular season is long 6/7 months, lots of feel good moments, better than not qualifying and being embarrassed for 6 or 7 months

 

[Americanadian]

Johnny Hockey turned down more money from Calgary to go to Columbus. I am assuming he'll take less than Willie.

I am hoping no one is offering him 9M ever again. If he gets 9M that's insane.

 

[nuck]

Again, moving Nylander is always about solving ALL the problems without considering what is being subtracted from the Leafs, which is currently the third highest scoring season in franchise history.

Some people want depth. Some people want defense. Some want goaltending. Some people want the cap equivalent of financial conservativism. You’re not getting all those things in one shot without a massive downgrade. And you’re nowhere closer to a cup.

How many teams and fanbases are saying, man once we trade that 115 point forward and $11 million for Jake Allen, JG Pageau and Brett Pesce we’ll really be rocking.

But how many teams have two other players that outscore that guy pretty much every year? Gaudreau and Huberdeau both have 115 pt seasons and no Cups nor will they ever. There is no sign that putting all your assets into star forwards will work. Its just another way of kicking ass in the regular season and ignoring what actual Cup winning lineups actually look like. St Louis ceased to be a contender when they let their #1 D walk. Vegas became a contender when they added their #1D.

How many teams and fanbases are saying man, once we add a 3rd all star forward long term we're pretty much set? Nobody is winning in the playoffs that way. How do you see them building at any other position with no money to do it? They always have peanuts to spare after the big money salaries and have settle for lower tier adds every season. And come up short.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Here’s the thing, the leafs window for contending for a Stanley cup is currently closed. they need to take a step back, trade Bertuzzi and domi at the deadline with max retention and recover any picks they can. With the coaching, defence and goaltending, this team is not going anywhere this year or next. It’s the 2025/26 season where the window opens back up.

The Leafs window for contending for the Cup closed on July 1, 2018, and will open again on July 1, 2025.

Bertuzzi and Domi and their one-year contracts are pretty much irrelevant.

 

[rumman]

Well the regular season is long 6/7 months, lots of feel good moments, better than not qualifying and being embarrassed for 6 or 7 months

Roger that, but the ending is always the same, paper tigers every year, I don’t know how people can continue to renew their season tickets year after year……..

 

[Stephen]

But how many teams have two other players that outscore that guy pretty much every year? Gaudreau and Huberdeau both have 115 pt seasons and no Cups nor will they ever. There is no sign that putting all your assets into star forwards will work. Its just another way of kicking ass in the regular season and ignoring what actual Cup winning lineups actually look like. St Louis ceased to be a contender when they let their #1 D walk. Vegas became a contender when they added their #1D.

How many teams and fanbases are saying man, once we add a 3rd all star forward long term we're pretty much set? Nobody is winning in the playoffs that way. How do you see them building at any other position with no money to do it?

Frankly, I don't see this level of overthinking when it comes to your best players vs filling needs. Colorado is desperate for a 2C, probably offensive depth and maybe a goalie depending on your opinions and I don't see them pushing Mikko Rantanen out the door to make it happen.

When it comes to the Big 4, the weak link in terms of upside, age, current and future productoin is John Tavares, not William Nylander. That contract runs out in 1.5 years time. All these handwringing concerns about an imbalanced cap go away when that contract expires and you can go hog wild adding second pairing defenseman, an Alex Kerfoot replacement and whatever else with the savings in that time.

I don't see it making any damn sense that Nylander would be the one to go just because of the timing of the contract. You break up the Big 4 by getting rid of the weakest link first, not circumstances of contract.

Haven't seen any plausible names, defensemen, scenarios where this mid season sell off would make a bit of sense.

 

[Stephen]

Before we got Marner, William, Mathews, JT we were never higher than 23rd and as low as 30th in a 30 team league , for over a decade. Except the shortened 2013 season where we only played 48 games and finished 9th. Anyway as we diverge away from the core 4 we will be doormats once again. Bet on it.

I can't help but laugh all those years ago we'd dream of packaging off Bozak, Phaneuf and depth trash for a true superstar like Steven Stamkos, and now there are fans passionately arguing this is what we need to do.

Gotta get that Kerfoot-like 3C and Top 4 defenseman any means necessary.