Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Rare Jewel]

I said the next cap jump could cover Marner’s raise, which won’t be as dramatic as Nylander’s anyway, so it’s the same strategy.

Big 4 is automatically being reduced to a Big 3 with the expiry of the Tavares deal so we’re going to be down the one core body/contract as the blood sacrifice demands.

Okay, but Matthews @ 13.25, Marner @ 12.5 (my guess on the # he'll want, 700k less than Matthews again), Nylander @ 11

Then Tavares back @ 5-6m or another #2c

This is essentially the same problem as now... it's still too much money in 4 forwards. Then Knies will figure into this at some point...

 

[arso40]

Okay, but Matthews @ 13.25, Marner @ 12.5 (my guess on the # he'll want, 700k less than Matthews again), Nylander @ 11

Then Tavares back @ 5-6m or another #2c

This is essentially the same problem as now... it's still too much money in 4 forwards. Then Knies will figure into this at some point...

Marner will not get 12.5 as long as nylanders here if he’s not it might be a kings ransom

 

[centipede2233]

The Leafs window for contending for the Cup closed on July 1, 2018, and will open again on July 1, 2025.

Bertuzzi and Domi and their one-year contracts are pretty much irrelevant.

Well yes it closed when dubie handed out unprecedented contracts. But incompetent management will do incompetent things

 

[Rare Jewel]

Marner will not get 12.5 as long as nylanders here if he’s not it might be a kings ransom

He shouldn't, I agree.

But that'll be the cost of keeping the band together because Marner's camp believes he's every bit as valuable as Matthews. We saw this the last time.

So, if that's the case, we know it's too much, and we have an imbalanced roster, sort it out.

 

[ToneDog]

IMO Nylander at 11m is as dumb as Marner at 11m. Get him the f*** out of here if he is dug in at that number.

 

[Stephen]

Okay, but Matthews @ 13.25, Marner @ 12.5 (my guess on the # he'll want, 700k less than Matthews again), Nylander @ 11

Then Tavares back @ 5-6m or another #2c

This is essentially the same problem as now... it's still too much money in 4 forwards. Then Knies will figure into this at some point...

Like I said over and over. If you can trade Nylander or Marner for Cale Makar right now, I could volunteer to drive the guy to the airport on Boxing Day.

As it stands, there's no 1 for 1 defensive trade across, and when you're just getting rid of Nylander and his maybe $11 million, just be aware that Brodie and Bertuzzi combine $10.5 million, and that's pretty shit mileage.

Cap is also going up to the low $90 million range from many reports in 2025, so the numbers we're used to seeing will be a lower %. Then again, an asteroid could hit the planet and who knows, who cares.

 

[ToneDog]

He shouldn't, I agree.

But that'll be the cost of keeping the band together because Marner's camp believes he's every bit as valuable as Matthews. We saw this the last time.

So, if that's the case, we know it's too much, and we have an imbalanced roster, sort it out.

Has Marner come close to outperforming his contract? Has he won us playoff series? He can f*** off if he wants anything more than Pasta.

 

[ToneDog]

Like I said over and over. If you can trade Nylander or Marner for Cale Makar right now, I could volunteer to drive the guy to the airport on Boxing Day.

As it stands, there's no 1 for 1 defensive trade across, and when you're just getting rid of Nylander and his maybe $11 million, just be aware that Brodie and Bertuzzi combine $10.5 million, and that's pretty shit mileage.

Cap is also going up to the low $90 million range from many reports in 2025, so the numbers we're used to seeing will be a lower %. Then again, an asteroid could hit the planet and who knows, who cares.

Not in a million years does Willie or Marner get you Makar. Makar is a generational dman. Dream on.

Nobody will give up a #1 dman for the privilege of overpaying a soft winger.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Like I said over and over. If you can trade Nylander or Marner for Cale Makar right now, I could volunteer to drive the guy to the airport on Boxing Day.

As it stands, there's no 1 for 1 defensive trade across, and when you're just getting rid of Nylander and his maybe $11 million, just be aware that Brodie and Bertuzzi combine $10.5 million, and that's pretty shit mileage.

Cap is also going up to the low $90 million range from many reports in 2025, so the numbers we're used to seeing will be a lower %. Then again, an asteroid could hit the planet and who knows, who cares.

You know that trade isn't available, and again, it's too isolated of a view.

The net result of trading ether won't be just in the trade; it's also how the rest of the team is managed.

Has Marner come close to outperforming his contract? Has he won us playoff series? He can f*** off if he wants anything more than Pasta.

He'll use the % of cap tactic based on the last time he signed.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Treliving signed the worst contract in NHL salary cap history.

How can Leaf fans trust this buffoon?

Tre signed Tavares? I thought it was Dubas.

 

[ToneDog]

You know that trade isn't available, and again, it's too isolated of a view.

The net result of trading ether won't be just in the trade; it's also how the rest of the team is managed.


He'll use the % of cap tactic based on the last time he signed.

Yup and he and his camp can look elsewhere to cash in unless he shows that he can dominate in the playoffs this year. Otherwise as Leslie Chow said in the hangover, Toodaloo motherf***er!

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tre signed Tavares? I thought it was Dubas.

I guess Leaf fans only pay attention to their own team and not the rest of the league??

 

[Confucius]

You know that trade isn't available, and again, it's too isolated of a view.

The net result of trading ether won't be just in the trade; it's also how the rest of the team is managed.


He'll use the % of cap tactic based on the last time he signed.

That would be hilarious, I’d love to be in the room when the Marner people put forward well he got 11 last time and you see how much better his stats are now compared to then.

 

[Rare Jewel]

That would be hilarious, I’d love to be in the room when the Marner people put forward well he got 11 last time and you see how much better his stats are now compared to then.

Yep, but you would also be competing against the open market as well, seeing as he's a UFA.

 

[notDatsyuk]

They wouldn't be moving for picks, though, unless you flip them elsewhere.

But as it pertains to Nylander, because his contract needs renewal first, losing him for nothing if the re-sign cost is too high also does nothing for the "burn" period.

So who is this player who is better than Nylander (but in a different position) is available at a lower cap hit, and on a team willing to trade him for a first (likely no better than 28th), a B-prospect, and a salary dump, which is about the best you're likely to get for a rental?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Signing him to 11 just perpetuates our failed cap structure. He's not worth 11.


Failure. You are getting failure in the post season.

No thanks. Been there done that

Unless you are desperate to 'fix the flawed cap structure' immediately and at any cost, trading Nylander isn't the way to do it.

Nylander was the one of the forwards who was the least 'failure in the post season', and the one who isn't making 11M.

Wait a year and trade one of the two who are actually making 11M and are the bigger failures in the playoffs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I see one of three scenarios playing out:

1. They pay Nylander $10+ long term and we all end up regretting it.
2. He walks as a UFA for nothing.
3, Knowing this team is not a real contender this year and that yet another crippling contract is going to keep this team in pergatory for the foreseeable future, they face the facts and deal him for what they really need (top pairing D or the first real goalie we've seen since Eddi Belfour) and failing that. whatever they can sell him for as a rental at deadline.

I see one of three scenarios playing out:

1. They pay Nylander $10+ long term, and it turns out to be right.
2. He walks as a UFA for nothing and we regret it.
3, They try to deal him for what they really need (top pairing D or the first real goalie we've seen since Eddi Belfour) and fail, then sell him for as a rental at deadline for a poor return, and we regret it.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

So you essentially say rest this year and next are whatever and burn that time on Matthews contract?

That's not the very proactive way to view it. It would be different if they had shown progress or had something to base the idea of keeping it together on, but there really isn't. In fact, over the last two seasons, they've gotten worse.

The whole idea of moving Nylander now or Marner this summer is not to waste that time and correct what was not tested or sound roster construction from the time Tavares was signed.


The idea is to have a better team, not to have a collection of stars we can be proud of because we had piss poor team the decade before they turned up.

Well said. It’ll mostly fall on deaf ears but you’re not the only one wanting to move on from this flawed roster.

 

[Rare Jewel]

So who is this player who is better than Nylander (but in a different position) is available at a lower cap hit, and on a team willing to trade him for a first (likely no better than 28th), a B-prospect, and a salary dump, which is about the best you're likely to get for a rental?

Who says he's better? Perhaps he is, but that's subjective. As I mentioned before, the net result will be bigger than perhaps the trade looks on paper.

I could, for instance, say, How about Nylander for Pesce + Teravainen? 3 UFA's Or 3-way trades are also possible, where Nylander goes to another contending team a la NYR, and then we take something from both.

I actually would prefer to keep him and move Marner truth be told. But if his ask is perceived to be too high, something is better than losing him for nothing in July.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Who says he's better? Perhaps he is, but that's subjective. As I mentioned before, the net result will be bigger than perhaps the trade looks on paper.

I could, for instance, say, How about Nylander for Pesce + Teravainen? 3 UFA's Or 3-way trades are also possible, where Nylander goes to another contending team a la NYR, and then we take something from both.

I actually would prefer to keep him and move Marner truth be told. But if his ask is perceived to be too high, something is better than losing him for nothing in July.

Some posters were saying we could trade him for a better player in a different position (D or G), and when they couldn't come up with anything, said to trade him for picks and trade the picks.

So they moved the goalposts, but it's still the same question - who?

You want to trade him for two rentals (contracts expire this year) both of whom are older, and who currently make almost $3M more? A serious downgrade at forward for a slight upgrade at D, and two players to sign, neither of whom has said they want to stay here as he has.

 

[arso40]

Not in a million years does Willie or Marner get you Makar. Makar is a generational dman. Dream on.

Nobody will give up a #1 dman for the privilege of overpaying a soft winger.

Number #1 dman most likely go for #1 centers like johansson and jones trade with top wingers like hall you end up with larsson so I agree all the more reason why I wouldn’t move a key cog for moving parts yes we need defencemen we’re getting Brodie bertuzzi domi off the books and samsonov that should be 2 top 4 dman

 

[Rare Jewel]

Some posters were saying we could trade him for a better player in a different position (D or G), and when they couldn't come up with anything, said to trade him for picks and trade the picks.

So they moved the goalposts, but it's still the same question - who?

You want to trade him for two rentals (contracts expire this year) both of whom are older, and who currently make almost $3M more? A serious downgrade at forward for a slight upgrade at D, and two players to sign, neither of whom has said they want to stay here as he has.

A slight upgrade on D? Have you seen this bunch? Cap isn't an issue. Nylander's exiting cap + Klingberg on LTIR covers it.

Anyway, It was the first example that came to mind, but again, it's subjective, and even if you can re-sign them for 5-6 each, the team as a whole may be better.

 

[arso40]

Your right it may work it may not but it’s an idea none the less would rather keep him and still going out there and get 2 dman if we’re not going all in we should at least get peeke and try to get Brodie out of here

 

[Drytoast]

Unless you are desperate to 'fix the flawed cap structure' immediately and at any cost, trading Nylander isn't the way to do it.

Nylander was the one of the forwards who was the least 'failure in the post season', and the one who isn't making 11M.

Wait a year and trade one of the two who are actually making 11M and are the bigger failures in the playoffs.

Signing him to 11 isn't the way to "fix the cap structure". Just because he's the lesser of the 3 not deserving of 11 doesn't mean you keep overpaying.

He isn't worth 11. His value is 9-9.5. Trade him and get a center or a defenseman and cap space.

 

[TheShape]

I see one of three scenarios playing out:

1. They pay Nylander $10+ long term, and it turns out to be right.
2. He walks as a UFA for nothing and we regret it.
3, They try to deal him for what they really need (top pairing D or the first real goalie we've seen since Eddi Belfour) and fail, then sell him for as a rental at deadline for a poor return, and we regret it.

3 isn't happening, that ship sailed last summer. He signs or walks, trading won't be an option at this point. Nylander loves it here, but something tells me if he was dead set on re-signing it would've happened by now. Strikes me as a guy who wouldn't mind seeing what else is out there.