Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Menzinger]

But they don't need a player who is better than Nylander to win a Cup. How many clubs have two forwards as good as Matthews and Marner? Not Vegas or St louis or Washington in their Cup years. Why do they need a big 3 when nobody else has shown it works? They keep trying to build a supporting group but they are cash strapped so they blow assets for retention or they add guys years past their prime every year.

The idea of moving Willie isn't to add the piece that wins right now, its to get off the Dubas plan that stars and table scraps can win it all. It isn't Nylander next year in a vacuum. This is a player that will be signed for 8 with a NM at a salary based on a career year, on a club that will be paying two other players over $24M for at least the next 4 years. A commitment to the Dubas plan means continuing to determine what they can trade for, whether off season or in, by how much is left over after they service all their big salaries until Matthews is up. I don't see how re-signing Willie allows the pursuit of any meaningful change in that time because he will expect, and get, a no move just like the others. Big 3 to the end but with JT and Willie's salaries swapped. And what happens if this it Willie's Gaudreau year and he never tops 85 points again? This is not a risk if he is your top forward but when you are committed to two other guys that don't earn their deals every season but thats not the case.

Anyways I can see you are entrenched in the idea that this season is the real Willie and it would be crazy to let him go. I won't try to further sell you on my pessimism. Especially since I think Shanahan probably shares your pov.

And that's a big problem underpinning your idea. We have a team led by Matthews scoring at a 70 goal pace, all moves made absolutely have to be about being as competitive as possible. We don't have the time to do a 2-3 year retool.

 

[Ports]

The cap issues are a function of Tavares’ and to a smaller degree Marner’s contracts which are up after next season. Sign Nylander who is big, strong, fast and a game breaker and rebalance the cap usage after next season. Nylander seems to finally get it, plays with more consistency and when he’s on, can over overpower the opposition at both ends of the ice. Wait until after the playoffs to re-sign him but if he performs well, he’ll be deserving of a $10M contract and with Brodie and Bertuzzi off the books, they’ll have the cap space to continue to improve their back end and after next season free up another $5-11M when Tavares either re-signs at half the price or they let him walk. Marner’s next contract is a discussion for another day but letting Willy walk should be out of the question.

 

[myleafs]

Sign the man, retain his rights, don't give him every protection, and reserve the right to make a decision at a later date.

good luck with that

 

[Stephen]

Hanifin and Lindholm
for
Nylander, Jarnkrok and Minten

Some other pieces both ways ... can make this Cap Work.

With an understanding of what re-sign is...

That is not a nice deal at all.

 

[Stephen]

The cap issues are a function of Tavares’ and to a smaller degree Marner’s contracts which are up after next season. Sign Nylander who is big, strong, fast and a game breaker and rebalance the cap usage after next season. Nylander seems to finally get it, plays with more consistency and when he’s on, can over overpower the opposition at both ends of the ice. Wait until after the playoffs to re-sign him but if he performs well, he’ll be deserving of a $10M contract and with Brodie and Bertuzzi off the books, they’ll have the cap space to continue to improve their back end and after next season free up another $5-11M when Tavares either re-signs at half the price or they let him walk. Marner’s next contract is a discussion for another day but letting Willy walk should be out of the question.

Agreed.

 

[rumman]

Hanifin and Lindholm
for
Nylander, Jarnkrok and Minten

Some other pieces both ways ... can make this Cap Work.

With an understanding of what re-sign is...

Hanifin and Lindholm better thsn Willy alone, and I even really like Hanifin…….

 

[Stephen]

Hanifin and Lindholm better thsn Willy alone, and I even really like Hanifin…….

For me, a guy like Zach Werenski would check a lot of boxes in terms of a super gifted, elite skating, big mobile workhorse defenseman, untapped production. Perfect age. $9.5 million contract. Just better than Hanifin at everything. I think the value is in a similar ballpark and Werenski would be a stud here...

Problem is CBJ would have no use for a Nylander and even less of a chance re-signing him.

These are the real hurdles whenever people start dreaming of defensemen in 1:1 trades. Not saying re-signing Nylander closes the book on this convo, but it allows for options to be assessed that isn't based on a bad deadline, and there's Tavares coming off the books in 1.5 years.

 

[ULF_55]

That is not a nice deal at all.

Changes the make-up of the team.

At this point there are very few players worth Nylander that would be available.

Like Nylander neither Hanifin nor Lindholm have been able to meet on contract demands.

Lindholm can play center or wing.

Hanifin is a true 2nd. pairing defender, not one a team is trying to make into a 2nd. pairing defender.

I'd rather keep Nylander, but Leafs have no options for defense, getting Giordano back isn't going to make other 3rd. pairing defenders into 2nd. pairing defenders.

 

[myleafs]

For me, a guy like Zach Werenski would check a lot of boxes in terms of a super gifted, elite skating, big mobile workhorse defenseman, untapped production. Perfect age. $9.5 million contract. Just better than Hanifin at everything. I think the value is in a similar ballpark and Werenski would be a stud here...

Problem is CBJ would have no use for a Nylander and even less of a chance re-signing him.

These are the real hurdles whenever people start dreaming of defensemen in 1:1 trades. Not saying re-signing Nylander closes the book on this convo, but it allows for options to be assessed that isn't based on a bad deadline, and there's Tavares coming off the books in 1.5 years.

Re-signing him I agree but Columbus would have no use for a Nylander? what? why?

 

[ULF_55]

For me, a guy like Zach Werenski would check a lot of boxes in terms of a super gifted, elite skating, big mobile workhorse defenseman, untapped production. Perfect age. $9.5 million contract. Just better than Hanifin at everything. I think the value is in a similar ballpark and Werenski would be a stud here...

Problem is CBJ would have no use for a Nylander and even less of a chance re-signing him.

These are the real hurdles whenever people start dreaming of defensemen in 1:1 trades. Not saying re-signing Nylander closes the book on this convo, but it allows for options to be assessed that isn't based on a bad deadline, and there's Tavares coming off the books in 1.5 years.

Yes, I just don't see a team trading a true 1st. pairing stud defender for a 1st. line winger.

 

[Jojalu]

Someone has to show up stating facts and pointing out reality.

Next you'll suggest the biggest drop off in production in the post season isn't Nylander. And he scores nearly as much as Matthews in the most recent real seasons.

Spoil sport.

Just having some fun @Confucius ...

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It is a pretty good point. Rielly should be included over Nylander when talking about the highest paid.

At least for this season and last

 

[LeafEgo]

Willy is as close as you're going to get to good money - upwards trajectory every year, all the tools, run a line, play c, play post season, pacing 120 or whatever it is.

Maybe could have had him for 10M in the offseason (the Marchand price). Now it's 10.5-11M, paying an extra 750k to see the latest improvement first.

We need a rebalanced cap but we're no longer as fortunate as we used to be. Need to accept that the cost now is someone walking for nothing. The heated debate should be what happens with Marner.

 

[ULF_55]

Re-signing him I agree but Columbus would have no use for a Nylander? what? why?

He's UFA and they're 28th. in the league.

 

[Menzinger]

Yes, I just don't see a team trading a true 1st. pairing stud defender for a 1st. line winger.

We also have several 1st line wingers traded as rentals in recent years. Zero returned even a top 4 D.

The trade value is basically set 1st + B prospect (the value of the prospect seems to fluctuate a bit depending on how good the rental player is)

 

[Stephen]

Changes the make-up of the team.

At this point there are very few players worth Nylander that would be available.

Like Nylander neither Hanifin nor Lindholm have been able to meet on contract demands.

Lindholm can play center or wing.

Hanifin is a true 2nd. pairing defender, not one a team is trying to make into a 2nd. pairing defender.

I'd rather keep Nylander, but Leafs have no options for defense, getting Giordano back isn't going to make other 3rd. pairing defenders into 2nd. pairing defenders.

But hypothetically speaking, there's a greater than 0% chance we can sign Hanifin as a UFA this summer with Brodie out the door.

So having Nylander + Hanfin is technically possible, and preferable to Lindholm + Hanifin.

 

[arso40]

But haven't they had that same edge for the last 5 years? Where is the change that brings them over the top? How will they get a better result going into the playoffs this year with the same tool kit they have brought every year?

No we haven’t did rielly look good to you 2 years ago ? He’s in his prime now. Did willie look this electric ever ? No he’s also hitting his prime marners hit a wall but he was a top 10 winger in the game for sure maybe even top five Matthews looks hart trophy winnerish so that’s why I like our chances and we have depth

 

[ULF_55]

But hypothetically speaking, there's a greater than 0% chance we can sign Hanifin as a UFA this summer with Brodie out the door.

So having Nylander + Hanfin is technically possible, and preferable to Lindholm + Hanifin.

My guess Lindholm's next deal will be a few million less than Nylanders.
Matthews
Lindholm
Tavares

 

[arso40]

Someone has to show up stating facts and pointing out reality.

Next you'll suggest the biggest drop off in production in the post season isn't Nylander. And he scores nearly as much as Matthews in the most recent real seasons.

Spoil sport.

Just having some fun @Confucius ...

View attachment 789301

View attachment 789302

Although those are nice stats it actually makes willie look better in my opinion he’s had the whole duration of their tenure playing second fiddle to the boys he gets secondary everything wingers centers dman and still produces jt was good his first year and he played with marner you get it?

 

[ToneDog]

Willy is as close as you're going to get to good money - upwards trajectory every year, all the tools, run a line, play c, play post season, pacing 120 or whatever it is.

Maybe could have had him for 10M in the offseason (the Marchand price). Now it's 10.5-11M, paying an extra 750k to see the latest improvement first.

We need a rebalanced cap but we're no longer as fortunate as we used to be. Need to accept that the cost now is someone walking for nothing. The heated debate should be what happens with Marner.

Nobody paid Gaudreau $10m coming off a 115 point season. Who is paying close to $11m for Willie? Nobody IMO. Check that, maybe the LA Dodgers.

 

[Stephen]

My guess Lindholm's next deal will be a few million less than Nylanders.
Matthews
Lindholm
Tavares

I truly do not want that.

 

[arso40]

Hanifin and Lindholm
for
Nylander, Jarnkrok and Minten

Some other pieces both ways ... can make this Cap Work.

With an understanding of what re-sign is...

Thank god your not the gm you wouldn’t be allowed near a team again I’m not trading jarnkrok or mitten I rather trade my first round pic

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I think there is a prospect Leafs have that the Flames would have interest in ... played in college with one of their own?

Don't need Wolf.
View attachment 789327

Same mistake we always make. Ridiculously small sample size.

 

[ULF_55]

Nobody paid Gaudreau $10m coming off a 115 point season. Who is paying close to $11m for Willie? Nobody IMO. Check that, maybe the LA Dodgers.

Why Johnny Gaudreau took less money to sign with Blue Jackets over Flames, Devils | Sporting News Canada

Johnny Gaudreau stunned the NHL world by signing with the Blue Jackets. The Sporting News looks at why he made the decision.

www.sportingnews.com

The Blue Jackets announced the deal at seven years and $68.25 million, for an average annual value of $9.75 million. Pierre LeBrun of TSN and The Athletic reported that the Flames offered Gaudreau an eight-year deal with a $10.5 million average annual value. He also reported the Devils offered seven years and more than $9 million per year.

Portzline reported that there is a no-move clause for the first four years and a limited no-trade clause in the last three, and that each season, he'll be paid $9.75 million.

 

[arso40]

Nobody paid Gaudreau $10m coming off a 115 point season. Who is paying close to $11m for Willie? Nobody IMO. Check that, maybe the LA Dodgers.

Gaudreau is a smaller marner without the two way play nylanders bigger stronger and better so again??nylanders production most his career came as a second line winger big difference

 

[Stephen]

Nobody paid Gaudreau $10m coming off a 115 point season. Who is paying close to $11m for Willie? Nobody IMO. Check that, maybe the LA Dodgers.

I think most Willie haters and break up the band folks would accept paying William Nylander $8.5 million on a new contract, allowing the rest of the team construction to not really be disturbed much for the 2023-24 season.

That is essentially all the Leafs are doing because the top up of $2.5 million to get to $11 million is covered by the left over money from the cap increase to $87.7 million after Matthews raise.