Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[therealkoho]

Tkachuk doesn't pay state taxes.

Based on past performance Tkachuk is definitely the better player (Right now it looks like Nylander has caught up to him) so Nylander should slot in at a lower number than him theoretically. However, just for visualizing things, if both were to make the same amount Nylander would need to make a little over $12MM to take home the same amount as Tkachuk.

Florida salaries aren't a great comparable for most of the league. However the Leafs being able to front load deals should be more of a benefit, but for some reason that doesn't seem to be the case.

The Florida tax advantage is much exaggerated, and has been discussed in various threads ad nauseum.

 

[therealkoho]

How about you look these up.

It's getting tiring answering questions lol.

Psychologists say that kind of communication strategy "asking your co-respondant to find the answer for them" is passive aggressiveness.

 

[therealkoho]

Yep. The person you're replying to obviously doesn't have any idea about the Marners or the GTHL dynamic.

I had always understood that Marners father dealt in new and used automotive repair equipment and the like!

 

[rumman]

If Nylander is the offensive force in the playoffs like he has been for the first 17 games of the season, I like the general look and feel of Marner dropping down into a 2A, 2B role with Nylander, as opposed to a 1A 1B role with Matthews, let him be a quieter playmaker and sidekick on the Matthews line, let Willie cook on the second with an easier line mismatch. How that money lines up will be Treliving and Pridham’s nightmare.

Maybe the most prudent move is to see how the season and playoffs play out, if 88 continues to excel and kills it in the playoffs hard not to open the vault for him (figuratively). If he wants to resign he will, if it’s about the biggest pay day available, well……….

 

[ToneDog]

By month:

Oct 14 games, 9 points
Nov 14 games, 13 points
Dec 13 games, 13 points
Jan 10 games, 11 points
Feb 13 games, 11 points

That certainly doesn't look like it took him too long to stop sucking.

Forget his assists (no idea how many were primary or were Marnereske). Stretches of 5 and 7 games without a goal in October (1 goal in 11 game stretch), November and December. If you think 4 goals in the first 17 games is good for a $7m player, God bless.

P.S. Let's not forgot how he was criticized on this board, then, for being afraid of contact and being a perimeter player.

 

[LeafGrief]

Matthews - 13.5m
Marner - 11m
Nylander - 10.5m
Tavares - 5m

Seems pretty workable, especially if we make the massive assumption that Marner isn’t going to command a raise. Up it to 12 if we need to, but that Tavares cap relief gives us room to keep Nylander and this is a much better salary structure than paying those 4 guys 40m between them. Can you believe that after next year we’ll have them all under contract for just… 40m…

Shit.

 

[ToneDog]

Matthews - 13.5m
Marner - 11m
Nylander - 10.5m
Tavares - 5m

Seems pretty workable, especially if we make the massive assumption that Marner isn’t going to command a raise. Up it to 12 if we need to, but that Tavares cap relief gives us room to keep Nylander and this is a much better salary structure than paying those 4 guys 40m between them. Can you believe that after next year we’ll have them all under contract for just… 40m…

Shit.

Problem is next year when JT makes $11m and the 4 chew up 52% of the projected 88m cap. I'm setting my expectations low next year if they give Willie 10+m.

 

[Jojalu]

Problem is next year when JT makes $11m and the 4 chew up 52% of the projected 88m cap. I'm setting my expectations low next year if they give Willie 10+m.

Have to hope Minten, Cowen and Knies all perform. Robertson won't get too big of a jump in pay. Klingberg's departure almost would cover the raises to Matthews and Nylander alone.

 

[ToneDog]

Have to hope Minten, Cowen and Knies all perform. Robertson won't get too big of a jump in pay. Klingberg's departure almost would cover the raises to Matthews and Nylander alone.

Yes that is how you solve the cap issue. Impactful ECL players but realistically you are not winning a SC. You can also save money in goal if Woll can take over from Sammy. Tre would also have to bat close to 1000 in his FA shopping and sign the right pieces. Not the way I'd build my team but it seems that is the way it has been since the rookie took over.

 

[Jojalu]

Yes that is how you solve the cap issue. Impactful ECL players but realistically you are not winning a SC. You can also save money in goal if Woll can take over from Sammy. Tre would also have to bat close to 1000 in his FA shopping and sign the right pieces. Not the way I'd build my team but it seems that is the way it has been since the rookie took over.

For the sanity of us all, I hope the win the Cup this year so rostdr construction, salary cap, ect noise can all go away.

At least until draft day.

 

[ToneDog]

For the sanity of us all, I hope the win the Cup this year so rostdr construction, salary cap, ect noise can all go away.

At least until draft day.

Win the SC this year, reload next year, win the SC the following year. Leafs fans deserve it !!

 

[freshwind]

Win the SC this year, reload next year, win the SC the following year. Leafs fans deserve it !!

works for me ......

 

[Gary Nylund]

Overpaying Nylander just perpetuates the problem. In THIS dressing room everyone is going to bounce their value against Matthew's cap hit. Which is why we are in this mess to begin with. Dubas set the cost too f***ing high. He set the bar with Tavares and then leapt over it with Matthews and Marner.

I dunno what Willie is. He can't play for shit in his own end. He doesn't kill penalties. He floats. He doesn't really play the body, go in the corners. He has great hands, a deceptive shot, great zone entries and can pass the puck.

He is great but he is certainly NOT a complete player by any stretch of the imagination. And for that I do not value him to be an 11M player.

And a goalie. Or haven't you noticed that we are back to letting in 1 bad goal a game regardless who's in net?

At 7 million a season, he's far from overpaid. I assume you're complaining about his next deal but it might make more sense to wait and see what the deal actually is before getting angry.

He has a list of where he won't go and you would assume any team he does get dealt to would have some expectation of an extension or they wouldnt pay top dollar. You don't trade without a willing partner which is also pretty basic stuff. There is dumping and then there is the voluntary parting of company when the numbers cant work. Pennies on the dollar only happens if you wait till the last minute. Their miniscule leverage is sinking by the day.

What does the list have to do with anything? You need a willing partner that goes without saying - I could also say that hockey pucks are black but that adds nothing to the discussion. And trading a rental player is the last minute pretty much by definition and yes, that is why we would get pennies on the dollar if we traded him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Forget his assists (no idea how many were primary or were Marnereske). Stretches of 5 and 7 games without a goal in October (1 goal in 11 game stretch), November and December. If you think 4 goals in the first 17 games is good for a $7m player, God bless.

P.S. Let's not forgot how he was criticized on this board, then, for being afraid of contact and being a perimeter player.

How about 5 goals in the first 17 games for an $11M player? That's Mitch at the moment. Matty just ended a four game goalless streak.

And that's just looking at this season so far. All players have goalless streaks.

P.S. Let's not forget that there are still people on these boards who criticize him for being afraid of contact and being a perimeter player.

 

[81Leafs50]

It's funny how people look at things.

JT is a "point a game, perennial 30 goal scorer", although the stats you posted show that he isn't 'point a game' (I had someone in another thread tell me that .99 ppg isn't 'point a game'). I'm also dubious of the 'perennial 30' - even omitting the COVID seasons, he's hit 30 six times in twelve seasons.

"MORE GOALS THAN SIDNEY CROSBY." Technically true for the selected period of 2009-10 to 2023-24, but in context, 1% more goals in 10% more games and 10% more ice time.

I can only count Tavares stats from his first game. I specifically said "since Tavares was drafted" because I cannot take into account the 5 years Crosby was in the NHL and Tavares wasn't.

When I say perennial point per game, 30 goal scorer I am referring to what Tavares is TODAY.

There are a lot of guys younger than Tavares and lot of guys older than Tavares TODAY that cannot do what he does.

 

[Evilhomer]

The Florida tax advantage is much exaggerated, and has been discussed in various threads ad nauseum.

Thank you. It is painful to keep hearing people raise this point as if it has any meaning. If you don't believe that multi-millionaires in any industry or career don't have a multitude of ways to minimize or defer their taxes, you are missing the point.

 

[KPower]

How the hell did Pastranak become his comparable?

It’s f***ing hilarious.

Career highs of 40 goals and 87 points.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I can only count Tavares stats from his first game. I specifically said "since Tavares was drafted" because I cannot take into account the 5 years Crosby was in the NHL and Tavares wasn't.

When I say perennial point per game, 30 goal scorer I am referring to what Tavares is TODAY.

There are a lot of guys younger than Tavares and lot of guys older than Tavares TODAY that cannot do what he does.

Perennial means 'every year'. He scored 30 and was (barely) ppg last year, both for the first time in four years.

I know you only used the time since JT started, but as I showed in my example (which you deleted from your reply), that can be misleading. Also, yes, 4 more goals, but in 128 more games. Context is important.

Yes, Tavares is very good at faceoffs and scoring when he's given the puck in the slot. But there are a lot of older and younger players who can do a lot of things that Tavares cannot do - vague blanket statements are basically meaningless.

 

[djdev]

So let me get this straight....A point a game, perennial 30 goal scorer, PP lock to score, is not a good player because why? because hes not fast? thats not good enough.

John Tavares is a future HOFer, 6 pts away from 1000pts in the NHL and OH yeah hes 3rd in goals since being drafted into the NHL.

MORE GOALS THAN SIDNEY CROSBY.

This take is strictly a coerced hockey take from the media in regards to the cap. This is not an educated hockey take.

View attachment 771643

show me where i said JT is a bad player, ill wait.
the original post in this conversation i said i like him as a player, but signing him to a multi-year deal at 7 million per at 35 is not a good idea, throwing stats at me is fine and all but doesnt change the type of player he will be going forward and doesnt make resigning him at 35 a good idea.

as for the bolded, OF COURSE ITS CAP RELATED...theres a hard cap in the NHL, we cant just sign any player we want to any amount we see fit. you posting that hes a HOF player and produces doesnt really change my opinion that he hasnt been a very good 5v5 player the past few years. his strength at this point is the PP, and thats fine...but going forward we need cap flexibility if we want to have a team that has the depth that continues to compete.

How the hell did Pastranak become his comparable?

It’s f***ing hilarious.

Career highs of 40 goals and 87 points.

i might have started the comp by showing pastas stats and what he resigned for 6 months ago, and arguing that willy isnt worth that lol.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Thank you. It is painful to keep hearing people raise this point as if it has any meaning. If you don't believe that multi-millionaires in any industry or career don't have a multitude of ways to minimize or defer their taxes, you are missing the point.

So are you saying that a lower tax rate has no impact on the bottom line? I find that hard to believe myself, intuitively it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Mirtles has an article about it today

How the Maple Leafs can realistically afford to pay William Nylander eight figures

The Leafs will have some concerns to address on their roster, but fitting in Nylander shouldn't be an insurmountable problem. Here's why.

theathletic.com

Pretty much where I'm at, Leafs cap situation isn't terrible and they can make 8 figures work with a rising cap.

 

[Martin Skoula]

How about 5 goals in the first 17 games for an $11M player? That's Mitch at the moment. Matty just ended a four game goalless streak.

And that's just looking at this season so far. All players have goalless streaks.

P.S. Let's not forget that there are still people on these boards who criticize him for being afraid of contact and being a perimeter player.

By perimeter do you mean like the perimeter of the goalie crease?

This is a heat map of all the goals he’s scored in his career:

 

[Evilhomer]

So are you saying that a lower tax rate has no impact on the bottom line? I find that hard to believe myself, intuitively it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm a lawyer. I have tax lawyers in my office who spend a lot of their time devising tax planning structures that mitigate the amount of tax very wealthy people pay. I have seen lots of these plans. People in this position pay very expensive professional advisors for a reason.

As an aside, do you know what the biggest benefit is for NHL, NBA and MLB players who play on Canadian teams? They are paid in USD to live in CDN dollar markets. It's interesting that I never see that mentioned.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm a lawyer. I have tax lawyers in my office who spend a lot of their time devising tax planning structures that mitigate the amount of tax very wealthy people pay. I have seen lots of these plans. People in this position pay very expensive professional advisors for a reason.

As an aside, do you know what the biggest benefit is for NHL, NBA and MLB players who play on Canadian teams? They are paid in USD to live in CDN dollar markets. It's interesting that I never see that mentioned.

Another bonus; endorsement deals in a larger market.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm a lawyer. I have tax lawyers in my office who spend a lot of their time devising tax planning structures that mitigate the amount of tax very wealthy people pay. I have seen lots of these plans. People in this position pay very expensive professional advisors for a reason.

As an aside, do you know what the biggest benefit is for NHL, NBA and MLB players who play on Canadian teams? They are paid in USD to live in CDN dollar markets. It's interesting that I never see that mentioned.

It's a benefit, though things, generally speaking, are more expensive in Canada.