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Norris Trophy Power Rankings: Rielly on top with gaudy offensive numbers

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The Winter Soldier said:
Calling out which you still have no reasonable rubuttal for regarding Rielly's defensive weaknesses and telling people not to post on the Mainboard are 2 entirely different things. If you cannot handle opinion/facts/videos recent ot otherwise that back up the point that Rielly is not the best defensive player as some seem to think it does not matter here. Then perhaps you are on the wrong discussion board. But again it was a timely and worthwhile point to illustrate the Barkov and Parise goals is a pattern of Rielly's continually Achilles heel in his game as it was when he misread the Nichsuhkin goal in the bronze medal game. For the record incase you missed it, I did credit him for having a good offensive year through almost 40 games. But reading a stats sheet does not mean he is a Norris worthy player.
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I offered you a deal. I too can post videos of defensemen making bad plays. They all do. Posting two videos from one game does not establish a 'pattern'. Nor does pointing out another 'lapse' seven years prior when the player was not even 18 years old lol.

The stat sheet (aka actual facts) does in fact clearly put him in the conversation, possibly even as a front runner.

Your cherry picked videos don't change that.

Ps not one person on here has claimed he's the best defensive player. I hope you're not implying that said person always wins the Norris?
 
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The Winter Soldier said:
This is the mainboard where people are free to opine, you certainly are welcome not to read or reply to my posts in the future. Notice it wasn't me that replied to you.

Doesn't change the fact Rielly is not dependable defensively to be considered Norris worthy. Again the 2 videos I posted just happened recently. Both resulted in a Leafs lost. IE the Parise and Barkov goals. Now if you want to go back further, this bad read/pinch by Rielly again cost Team Canada a bronze. It just happens too often for me to award an award such as the Norris for him. As the games get tougher, and without Andersen at the moment to cover up his mistakes. This would be a more glaring fact. He's having a good offensive year, I give him credit for this. But reading a stats sheet is just a fraction of discussing what a player is. And not a true picture.

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Ah, the ol' here's a video clip argument. You can post clips of Doughty in the Stanley cup final getting walked and making a bad play, it's something that happens to literally every player on occassion, so why play the weak hand?... oh because you dont know what you're talking about, gotcha.

In reality Rielly is a two-way D who's been great this year defensively, but just like with Subban and Keith, if he wins the Norris his offensive numbers will be impressive. Rarely is a Norris ever won based on the strength on defense alone.

Brent Burns is ass defensively and won a Norris recently, where were you clips and criticism then.
 
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The Apologist said:
I offered you a deal. I too can post videos of defensemen making bad plays. They all do. Posting two videos from one game does not establish a 'pattern'. Nor does pointing out another 'lapse' seven years prior when the player was not even 18 years old lol.

The stat sheet (aka actual facts) does in fact clearly put him in the conversation, possibly even as a front runner.

Your cherry picked videos don't change that.

Ps not one person on here has claimed he's the best defensive player. I hope you're not implying that said person always wins the Norris?
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I don't concern myself with deals with posters. Nor do I care what you may or may not post. I don't read your posts not unless you reply to me. Which tells me all I need to know. Maybe you should do the same? As for cherry picked videos, yes those 2 were cherry picked while some were posting about Rielly being the best D man thus far this year since it was an afternoon game. Can't get more cherry picked than in real time. Rielly is mediocre defensively. He was torched by the Bruins last year in the playoffs. He has lots to prove there.
 
The Winter Soldier said:
Calling out which you still have no reasonable rubuttal for regarding Rielly's defensive weaknesses and telling people not to post on the Mainboard are 2 entirely different things. If you cannot handle opinion/facts/videos recent ot otherwise that back up the point that Rielly is not the best defensive player as some seem to think it does not matter here. Then perhaps you are on the wrong discussion board. But again it was a timely and worthwhile point to illustrate the Barkov and Parise goals is a pattern of Rielly's continually Achilles heel in his game as it was when he misread the Nichsuhkin goal in the bronze medal game. For the record incase you missed it, I did credit him for having a good offensive year through almost 40 games. But reading a stats sheet does not mean he is a Norris worthy player.
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As the best defenseman on a team that plays exciting, winning hockey, second place in the league, morgan rielly leafs the defense on a team carrying the flag for not only the province, but canada as a whole.

His offensive numbers this year are staggering, and his defense has been surprisingly strong. He is the cornerstone of a defense that has made thebleafs top 5 in goals against this season, while playing their rookie goalie most nights, and even fill ins when hes been injured.

It cant be stated enough what Morgan rielly means to our exciting, winning, flag carrying team.
 
Ageless said:
Lol the Norris is hilarious. “Gaudy offensive numbers” when deciding who the top DEFENSE player in the nhl is.
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Thats not what the Norris is about. Its the best defensemen in the league and they count offensive numbers with defensive numbers. It has always been done that way. Its about 2 way play, not just defence.
 
Golden_Jet said:
he was definitely bad last game,
he is 4th on his team in PK minutes for Defenseman and 120thin the NHL for defenseman in TOI for PK. So looks like Babs trusts Hainsey, Zaitsev and Dermott ahead of him.
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What about his ENTIRE career prior to this season. LOL. He's simply getting more PP time this season.
 
LeafFever said:
He was actually not bad last year, particularly in the first half. But he's clearly regressed this season. Marleau has as well.
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fair enough, I haven't watched much of the Leafs this year. I just know a ton of Pens fans said he sucked in 2017 too, despite him doing a damn good job in a role he really didn't belong in.
 
The Winter Soldier said:
I don't concern myself with deals with posters. Nor do I care what you may or may not post. I don't read your posts not unless you reply to me. Which tells me all I need to know. Maybe you should do the same? As for cherry picked videos, yes those 2 were cherry picked while some were posting about Rielly being the best D man thus far this year since it was an afternoon game. Can't get more cherry picked than in real time. Rielly is mediocre defensively. He was torched by the Bruins last year in the playoffs. He has lots to prove there.
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You cherry picked because you used two videos of a player having a rough game and tried to extrapolate it over an entire season, one in which he has actually been very good, Norris level actually. You then backed up your opinion with another play that happened seven years ago in a tournament that he was actually again very good. You then tried to discount stats while claiming that your opinion was somehow 'fact'.
Anyway I tire of this sillyness.
If you can't even acknowledge that his season has him in the discussion for the best defenseman this season, then quite frankly I cannot take anything you say seriously annd that's me being as nice as I can.
 
Ogrezilla said:
fair enough, I haven't watched much of the Leafs this year. I just know a ton of Pens fans said he sucked in 2017 too, despite him doing a damn good job in a role he really didn't belong in.
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He's not as bad as many of my fellow fans make him sound but hes by no means the reason Rielly has been so good.
 
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Ogrezilla said:
fair enough, I haven't watched much of the Leafs this year. I just know a ton of Pens fans said he sucked in 2017 too, despite him doing a damn good job in a role he really didn't belong in.
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I dunno,. If I paid that low of a price for Hainsey and he played far more than I ever thought, AND we won the cup, I would not complain.
Really, what more could Pens fans have asked?
 
Ogrezilla said:
fair enough, I haven't watched much of the Leafs this year. I just know a ton of Pens fans said he sucked in 2017 too, despite him doing a damn good job in a role he really didn't belong in.
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Hainsey's one of those players who excels at the things you might not see watching on TV (boxing out, stick in passing/shooting lanes, etc.), but struggles at the things you will see (ie. handling/passing the puck).

So I think the answer is somewhere in between. He was painful to watch in Pittsburgh when the puck was on his stick, but was otherwise useful at defending when the opposition had the puck.
 
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NovaLeaf said:
Thats not what the Norris is about. Its the best defensemen in the league and they count offensive numbers with defensive numbers. It has always been done that way. Its about 2 way play, not just defence.
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Unfortunately it has become the most productive rather than best.
 
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LeafFever said:
I dunno,. If I paid that low of a price for Hainsey and he played far more than I ever thought, AND we won the cup, I would not complain.
Really, what more could Pens fans have asked?
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yeah that's my point. I think he did a great job for us. But his flaws really stood out. I'm just wondering if it's similar with the Leafs now or if he really has fallen off.
 
Sidney the Kidney said:
Hainsey's one of those players who excels at the things you might not see watching on TV (boxing out, stick in passing/shooting lanes, etc.), but struggles at the things you will see (ie. handling/passing the puck).

So I think the answer is somewhere in between. He was painful to watch in Pittsburgh when the puck was on his stick, but was otherwise useful at defending when the opposition had the puck.
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what he said. I would think that sticks out even more blatantly with this leafs team than it did with the 17 Pens too.
 
LeafFever said:
Give me those flaws anyday for that play and that result.
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yes, that's what I'm saying. He did a good job. What I'm wondering if it's a similar situation in Toronto with him doing a good job overall, but his flaws are just so visible that people say he sucks.
 
Ogrezilla said:
yes, that's what I'm saying. He did a good job. What I'm wondering if it's a similar situation in Toronto with him doing a good job overall, but his flaws are just so visible that people say he sucks.
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I don't think his flaws are as apparent as they were in Pittsburgh because he's got a high end puck mover paired with him now. Love Dumoulin, but he wasn't exactly going to cover for Hainsey's overall lack of ability to move the puck.

I think if Letang was healthy and Hainsey was paired with him, his flaws probably wouldn't have looked so obvious in Pittsburgh, either.
 
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Cotton said:
Ah, the ol' here's a video clip argument. You can post clips of Doughty in the Stanley cup final getting walked and making a bad play, it's something that happens to literally every player on occassion, so why play the weak hand?... oh because you dont know what you're talking about, gotcha.

In reality Rielly is a two-way D who's been great this year defensively, but just like with Subban and Keith, if he wins the Norris his offensive numbers will be impressive. Rarely is a Norris ever won based on the strength on defense alone.

Brent Burns is ass defensively and won a Norris recently, where were you clips and criticism then.
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I do criticize those types of players winning it. I have been very clear on this thread that Rielly is in the running for the Norris because of his point production. But when some of your fan base on this thread are saying he has been the best defenseman this season I just pointed out how wrong that is. In no way is Rielly they best defenseman in the league. Most of us can agree with that but some people are just homers.

Of course I think Letang is the better defenseman and I think I am right but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think more people would take Letang over Rielly if they could add either to the team Cap free as a rental for this season. I know I would take several defenseman in that situation over Rielly and some of them would be Hedman, Giordano, Jones, and Karlsson. Plus I think he will be passed in scoring by seasons end by a few defenseman which if that happens he won’t even be in the running.
 
For the 15/16 season Karlsson had 60% more points than Doughty. So, it doesnt always go to the most productive. Also, lol to the Doughty voters. Pathetic Canadian homers.
 
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