No More Soft Players & Career Losers On The 3rd & 4th Lines

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Does Mikheyev and Engvall equal the entire bottom 6?

Would anyone here in their right minds blame the bottom 6 for our playoff loss and not blame our top 6 significantly moreso?

What are you even saying?


Let’s evaluate how the bottom six played against Montreal:

Mikheyev - - garbage
Thornton - - garbage
Simmonds - - garbage
Engvall - - garbage
Foligno - - garbage
Riley Trash - - garbage

Spezza was great but he was the ONLY one who contributed anything.

The rest weren’t just bad, they were God-awful.

Impossible to win in the playoffs with virtually ALL of the bottom six guys playing that terrible. Can’t be done, my friend.

Feel free to let me know which of the six guys listed above that you think played well against Montreal.
 
One of those classic playoff traditions we see year after year are guys like Mikheyev and Engvall getting hot at unexpected times and contributing a lot of timely offense from the bottom 6.

Just compare and contrast the offensive black hole that is Joel Armia as reference and the uptick in his ice time as the playoffs wears on. Starts out playing single digit minutes but gets a little more confidence every game and is now up to 16 minutes. Maybe our star forwards don't need Ryan Suter ice time.

That’s correct - - every single Cup winning team gets critical contributions from their bottom six players.

Really have to wonder if some people here ever watch any playoff games after the Leafs are eliminated or if the just base their comments from what they see playing NHL21 video games.
 
Engvall and Mikheyev are always the worst players on the ice when they’re on. You can’t have playoff success relying on 4 guys to do everything.

Source: Every successful team ever


Glad I’m not the only one here who can recognize how useless Mikheyev and Engvall are.

Both were completely invisible during the playoffs - - it’s embarrassing that anyone would proclaim they had a “fine” performance in the series.
 
Let’s evaluate how the bottom six played against Montreal:

Mikheyev - - garbage
Thornton - - garbage
Simmonds - - garbage
Engvall - - garbage
Foligno - - garbage
Riley Trash - - garbage

Spezza was great but he was the ONLY one who contributed anything.

The rest weren’t just bad, they were God-awful.

Impossible to win in the playoffs with virtually ALL of the bottom six guys playing that terrible. Can’t be done, my friend.

Feel free to let me know which of the six guys listed above that you think played well against Montreal.

So you’re just going to keep pretending Kerfoot and Galchenyuk are top-6 guys and Foligno was a bottom-6 guy?

There are plenty of real things to complain about - no reason to make stuff up.
 
So you’re just going to keep pretending Kerfoot and Galchenyuk are top-6 guys and Foligno was a bottom-6 guy?

There are plenty of real things to complain about - no reason to make stuff up.
Kerfoot was moved to the 2nd line after JT got inured , he played well when Willie was going , when Willie slowed down the last couple of games Kerfoot was invisible .

Gal had a couple of good games but that was also in the top 6

overall the bottom 6 outside of Spezza was trash , you can also include Hyman with them
 
Kerfoot was moved to the 2nd line after JT got inured , he played well when Willie was going , when Willie slowed down the last couple of games Kerfoot was invisible .

Gal had a couple of good games but that was also in the top 6

overall the bottom 6 outside of Spezza was trash , you can also include Hyman with them

Kerfoot was a bottom-6 player who was forced into the top-6 due to an injury. That doesn’t change the fact that he was a bottom-6 player.

Galchenyuk was like 12th in ice time among forwards. He was not a top-6.
 
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So you’re just going to keep pretending Kerfoot and Galchenyuk are top-6 guys and Foligno was a bottom-6 guy?

There are plenty of real things to complain about - no reason to make stuff up.

You’re spinning in circles to avoid the question, my friend.

I listed six players who were deadwood in the playoffs and whether you want to spin them as “bottom six” “middle six” or “rando six” they ALL played.

Which of the six do you feel played well enough in the playoffs to deserve another roster spot next year?
 
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overall the bottom 6 outside of Spezza was trash , you can also include Hyman with them


It’s comical how hard people try to defend terrible players.

As if they’re terrified their official Leafs Fan card will be revoked if they dare to acknowledge a player/coach/management is useless.

Insisting that Mikheyev and Sneaky Pete Engvall played well in the playoffs is like insisting Sheldon Keefe had a magnificent coaching performance in the playoffs.
 
I actually dont think that we need a shutdown 3rd line, I feel that JT and Matthews can handle tough matchups and are both elite defensive Cs. What I think we need from a 3rd line is an additional scoring line that can generate some offense. It will be a key spot for Robertson/Amirov to break into the lineup. We need a C to run that line, now it could be Kerfoot but personally I dont like him as an offensive driver up the middle he isn't a threat to shoot at all. I would go for Granlund we prob lose Kerfoot to expansion anyways.

Robertson-Granlund-Galchenyuk is a good scoring 3rd line to me. I know its not the size we need but to me we need the big fast grinders on the JT line and the 4th line, those will be our most physically dominant lines. JT plays a grinders style, guys like Coleman or Wood would be good fits with JT as would Hyman.

I also think its time for Nylander-Matthews-Marner, just play JT with grinders who can score.
 
I'm sick of geezers from San Jose on this team. That franchise is steeped in loser energy themselves, why would we want anyone from there to try to show our guys how to win? Foligno is a loser too but he captained the team that beat us in the qualifiers (as if beating the Leafs in the playoffs is hard) and "hIs dAD PLaYeD fOR tHE lEaFS" so we obviously needed to trade a 1st for him. Simmonds was useless too, if we're gonna have an enforcer get someone who is younger and has something to prove.

Engvall is too inconsistent to be a full timer and Mikheyev is so shit offensively it doesn't matter if he's good defensively. There has to be a guy who can bring the same defensive acumen but also has some balls on him. Kerfoot may be gone due to the expansion draft but it's really only him and Spezza I want back in the bottom six. Fill out their wings in a way that brings tenacity and some decent hands, not the brittle hands of Thornton or the ineptitude of Mikheyev.
 
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You’re spinning in circles to avoid the question, my friend.

I listed six players who were deadwood in the playoffs and whether you want to spin them as “bottom six” “middle six” or “rando six” they ALL played.

Which of the six do you feel played well enough in the playoffs to deserve another roster spot next year?

I don’t even know what you’re arguing.

The top players were a bigger problem than the bottom players.
 
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I actually dont think that we need a shutdown 3rd line, I feel that JT and Matthews can handle tough matchups and are both elite defensive Cs. What I think we need from a 3rd line is an additional scoring line that can generate some offense. It will be a key spot for Robertson/Amirov to break into the lineup. We need a C to run that line, now it could be Kerfoot but personally I dont like him as an offensive driver up the middle he isn't a threat to shoot at all. I would go for Granlund we prob lose Kerfoot to expansion anyways.

Robertson-Granlund-Galchenyuk is a good scoring 3rd line to me. I know its not the size we need but to me we need the big fast grinders on the JT line and the 4th line, those will be our most physically dominant lines. JT plays a grinders style, guys like Coleman or Wood would be good fits with JT as would Hyman.

I also think its time for Nylander-Matthews-Marner, just play JT with grinders who can score.

It’s fine to build more scoring lines, but they can’t me more perimeter scorers. We need guys that actually attack the net.

Nylander and Marner can’t play together. They both just circle the outside and avoid traffic.
 
I don’t even know what you’re arguing.

The top players were a bigger problem than the bottom players.



The 1st line Marner/Matthews/Hyman was terrible.

The 2nd line Nylander/Kerfoot/Galchenyuk was exceptional.

Every single other forward not named Jason Spezza was WORSE than terrible. Complete garbage.

Anyone want to try and disagree? Speak up and give some supporting evidence.

There’s at least SIX (6) useless forwards who should never wear a Leafs jersey again.

SEVEN (7) if you include Hyman - - cannot pay a mediocre plugger $5m to $6m per.

Especially not with the cap situation this team has.
 
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What I think we need from a 3rd line is an additional scoring line that can generate some offense....Robertson-Granlund-Galchenyuk is a good scoring 3rd line to me.


Having three scoring lines is completely unrealistic.

Paying a guy $10m+ and expecting him to be a defensive checker is even more unrealistic.

The Leafs are paying a kings ransom to four forwards. They’re being paid to put the puck in the net. Split them into pairs, find someone serviceable to ride shotgun, and there’s your two lines for offence.

There’s just not enough talent in the league to have a bunch of 25 to 35 goal scorers across three lines.

Proclaiming something to be a “scoring line” when in reality it’s just three David Clarksons playing together serves no purpose.

Robertson has scored ONE(1) NHL goal in his life. Expecting an undersized and inexperienced kid like that to play on a legit scoring line is nonsensical and sets him up for failure.

Granlund is nothing more than an expensive figure skater. That’s the LAST thing the Leafs need to be wasting a few million on.

Absolutely CANNOT have four lines with the same finesse type players. That’s a guaranteed failure.

It’s like a pitcher who throws nothing except fastballs - - he’s going to be destroyed because hitters know exactly the same thing is coming every time.

The 3rd and 4th lines need to have different attributes - - ideally one is a lockdown checking line and the other is a legit grind line that raises hell and makes things miserable by physically punishing opponents.

Then when you get into the playoffs and a team tries to play physical (Boston) or tight defensively (Columbus, Montreal) you’ve got a couple of lines to match that style.

This is basic roster building.
 
The 1st line Marner/Matthews/Hyman was terrible.

The 2nd line Nylander/Kerfoot/Galchenyuk was exceptional.

Every single other forward not named Jason Spezza was WORSE than terrible. Complete garbage.

Anyone want to try and disagree? Speak up and give some supporting evidence.

There’s at least SIX (6) useless forwards who should never wear a Leafs jersey again.

SEVEN (7) if you include Hyman - - cannot pay a mediocre plugger $5m to $6m per.

Especially not with the cap situation this team has.

Do you have a point, or you just venting?
 
Let’s evaluate how the bottom six played against Montreal:

Mikheyev - - garbage
Thornton - - garbage
Simmonds - - garbage
Engvall - - garbage
Foligno - - garbage
Riley Trash - - garbage

Spezza was great but he was the ONLY one who contributed anything.

The rest weren’t just bad, they were God-awful.

Impossible to win in the playoffs with virtually ALL of the bottom six guys playing that terrible. Can’t be done, my friend.

Feel free to let me know which of the six guys listed above that you think played well against Montreal.

None did, but what I'm confused about is why you think I would think otherwise. You're making things up that I did not say, then arguing against them. You are having a conversation with yourself (again).
 
Glad I’m not the only one here who can recognize how useless Mikheyev and Engvall are.

Both were completely invisible during the playoffs - - it’s embarrassing that anyone would proclaim they had a “fine” performance in the series.
What people don’t understand is that you can’t win shit in this league with passengers who are defended by fans with the classic phrase “they’re good defensively”. Just because absolutely nothing happens every single time these guys are on the ice, doesn’t mean that they’re good players. We need our bottom 6 players to be able to chip in.
 
I give Simmonds credit for at least being willing to fight, but agree that he needs to be upgraded.

Anyone with the slightest understanding of hockey would have to acknowledge the other three provide absolutely NOTHING.

So that’s 4 out of 6 spots on the 3rd and 4th line that need to be replaced.

Doesn’t quite fit the narrative about “the bottom six are fine.”

That narrative only works because 1 guy was producing on the 4th line, Mikheyev and Engvall have combined for 1 point in 2 post seasons while providing no grit. You don't get more invisible then that.
 
Thornton and Simmonds just don't get resigned.

Sounds like Edmonton wants to get rid of Josh Archibald, so maybe we can swap them Ilya Mikheyev.

Engvall can be swapped for another 4th liner who fits better... Christian Fischer, Eric Robinson, Yakov Trenin, Tyler Motte, Ivan Barbashev....etc



That would be horrifying....

There's one UFA that fits exactly what we need for that 3rd line centre slot - Casey Cizikas. Dubas better make a hard run at him.

I'm expecting Hallander to be on the team but maybe they will trade him for a different bottom 6'er. I think Cizikas stays in New York, but he would definitely improve our grit. I mean he's actually killed someone...
 
What people don’t understand is that you can’t win shit in this league with passengers who are defended by fans with the classic phrase “they’re good defensively”. Just because absolutely nothing happens every single time these guys are on the ice, doesn’t mean that they’re good players. We need our bottom 6 players to be able to chip in.

I think everyone understands that....
 
Having three scoring lines is completely unrealistic.

Paying a guy $10m+ and expecting him to be a defensive checker is even more unrealistic.

The Leafs are paying a kings ransom to four forwards. They’re being paid to put the puck in the net. Split them into pairs, find someone serviceable to ride shotgun, and there’s your two lines for offence.

There’s just not enough talent in the league to have a bunch of 25 to 35 goal scorers across three lines.

Proclaiming something to be a “scoring line” when in reality it’s just three David Clarksons playing together serves no purpose.

Robertson has scored ONE(1) NHL goal in his life. Expecting an undersized and inexperienced kid like that to play on a legit scoring line is nonsensical and sets him up for failure.

Granlund is nothing more than an expensive figure skater. That’s the LAST thing the Leafs need to be wasting a few million on.

Absolutely CANNOT have four lines with the same finesse type players. That’s a guaranteed failure.

It’s like a pitcher who throws nothing except fastballs - - he’s going to be destroyed because hitters know exactly the same thing is coming every time.

The 3rd and 4th lines need to have different attributes - - ideally one is a lockdown checking line and the other is a legit grind line that raises hell and makes things miserable by physically punishing opponents.

Then when you get into the playoffs and a team tries to play physical (Boston) or tight defensively (Columbus, Montreal) you’ve got a couple of lines to match that style.

This is basic roster building.

You can pay Marner $100m, that won't make him a goal scorer.

As far as the bottom 6 goes, sure the top six need to score but you still need to get something from your bottom 6. Anybody who disagrees should be tuning into the playoff series currently going on.
 
What people don’t understand is that you can’t win shit in this league with passengers who are defended by fans with the classic phrase “they’re good defensively”. Just because absolutely nothing happens every single time these guys are on the ice, doesn’t mean that they’re good players. We need our bottom 6 players to be able to chip in.


The cheerleading by some for the bottom six scrubs is mind boggling.

Maybe having two lines of invisible pylons is ok in NHL21 video games but it’s a guaranteed failure in real life.

Impossible to have success in the playoffs without key contributions from the 3rd and 4th lines.
 
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I'm expecting Hallander to be on the team but maybe they will trade him for a different bottom 6'er. I think Cizikas stays in New York, but he would definitely improve our grit. I mean he's actually killed someone...

I am on the Kuraly, Jankowski, Goodrow bandwagon. Not sure about Brett Richie but at $800K I'd be willing to take a flyer on him.
 

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