Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[TBF1972]

Ah cool, so you are changing what it means to be a prospect to avoid admitting you are wrong. Sad, really, but I get it.

yawn

it's getting tiresome.

in swiss german we have a saying:
de gschiider gid nah. dr esel bliibt stah.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Lots of New Jersey fans and Eastern fans in general are going to be surprised at the level of player Markstrom still is. Was in discussions for the Vezina for the majority of the season up until the trade deadline, and was obviously a finalist 2 years ago. People will point to his bad year last year, but being an expecting dad and planning a wedding can definitely have their effects on such a mental position. He’s still a high level starter in this league.

Bahl’s intriguing. 23 going on 24 with his size profile are usually late bloomers, and I’ll never doubt Calgary’s current pro scouting team after some pretty massive hits with Sharangovich, Kuzmenko and Miromanov all in the last year. If there anything Calgary as an organization is good at, it’s developing defenseman as well. It’ll be intriguing how he fares for Calgary, they have a strong history at getting rapid improvements off defenseman taken from other teams.

This trade ages well for both teams I think. I pray Calgary gets a solid top 4 defenseman in free agency for Wolfs sake though, hate to have his confidence ruined by a weak defense corps as he enters the league. If Calgary rolls out something like this it’d still be a relatively strong corps:

Weegar-Andersson
Kylington-Skjei
Bahl-Miromanov

 

[Nocashstyle]

If he didn't struggle after his first full year he'd be the most valuable piece in the trade haha.

I don't get how people are seemingly so dismissive of a young defender with 2nd pairing potential that is pretty much already there.

He didn’t really “struggle” this past season though. He played about as well as expected of a sophomore defenseman with his skillset. I do think expecting 2nd pair potential is a little optimistic. The reality is, he can probably handle top 4 minutes, but if he is, that means the blueline is not very deep.

I will say, a big defensive defenseman with limited offensive potential like Bahl makes for an easy target to be a whipping boy amongst fan bases. But Bahl hasn’t been that for Devils fans. I know it’s kind of a backhanded compliment, but it just shows that he mostly plays a sound game and usually makes the correct reads and puck decisions. The biggest knock on Bahl’s game is he more often plays like he’s 6’1 and 190 instead of 6’6 and 230.

 

[DJJones]

He didn’t really “struggle” this past season though. He played about as well as expected of a sophomore defenseman with his skillset. I do think expecting 2nd pair potential is a little optimistic. The reality is, he can probably handle top 4 minutes, but if he is, that means the blueline is not very deep.

I will say, a big defensive defenseman with limited offensive potential like Bahl makes for an easy target to be a whipping boy amongst fan bases. But Bahl hasn’t been that for Devils fans. I know it’s kind of a backhanded compliment, but it just shows that he mostly plays a sound game and usually makes the correct reads and puck decisions. The biggest knock on Bahl’s game is he more often plays like he’s 6’1 and 190 instead of 6’6 and 230.

I mean he just played top four minutes for you guys. 82 games with 17 minutes plus is solid second pairing.

Calgary's in no rush. We can give him time to sort out the kinks

 

[HBK27]

Lots of New Jersey fans and Eastern fans in general are going to be surprised at the level of player Markstrom still is. Was in discussions for the Vezina for the majority of the season up until the trade deadline, and was obviously a finalist 2 years ago. People will point to his bad year last year, but being an expecting dad and planning a wedding can definitely have their effects on such a mental position. He’s still a high level starter in this league.

Bahl’s intriguing. 23 going on 24 with his size profile are usually late bloomers, and I’ll never doubt Calgary’s current pro scouting team after some pretty massive hits with Sharangovich, Kuzmenko and Miromanov all in the last year. If there anything Calgary as an organization is good at, it’s developing defenseman as well. It’ll be intriguing how he fares for Calgary, they have a strong history at getting rapid improvements off defenseman taken from other teams.

This trade ages well for both teams I think. I pray Calgary gets a solid top 4 defenseman in free agency for Wolfs sake though, hate to have his confidence ruined by a weak defense corps as he enters the league. If Calgary rolls out something like this it’d still be a relatively strong corps:

Weegar-Andersson
Kylington-Skjei
Bahl-Miromanov

As a Devils fan, I hope we are surprised at how good he still is and it's good to hear this from Calgary fans.

Inconsistency seems to be an issue for him, but hopefully a lighter workload with more of a 1A/1B type of split with Allen might benefit him.

Leading up to the trade, I've seen plenty of poster reference him having a baby (and in this case the wedding) as a driver for his poor 2022-2023 season. I'm a married father of two, but unless there were any health concerns for his wife/child, this comes across as a very poor excuse. Being a goalie is one of the most mentally challenging positions in sports and if something like that is going to derail an entire season...that would be a red flag for me. Especially after seeing the mental side of things essentially sink Vanecek. Was humming along great in 2022-2023, started struggling a bit down the stretch and then you could see before the puck even dropped in the playoffs that he was not where he needed to be mentally - just looked nervous and was flopping all around. He worked with a mental coach last offseason, but obviously didn't fix things.

Even the excuse of him struggling this past season after seeing his name being rumored for a trade and possibly even waiving his NMC for NJ makes me a bit nervous, but I'm willing to excuse that to an extent as he was also coming back from injury and the team had just traded away a few very good players.

Anyway, I'll root like hell for the guy and I know he's got the potential to be a top 10 goalie in the league, but who knows if that will come to fruition or if so for how long in NJ. Think it was a solid trade for Calgary and I'm fine with in from NJ's perspective as well - was a little bit more than I would've liked to give up, but it's still also a bit incomplete depending on what Fitz does with the additional cap space he paid for with Markstrom's retention and how he fills Bahl's void.

 

[HBK27]

I mean he just played top four minutes for you guys. 82 games with 17 minutes plus is solid second pairing.

Calgary's in no rush. We can give him time to sort out the kinks

He was 6th in ATOI among regular Devils defensemen by a wide margin:

Hughes - 21:28
Hamilton - 20:59
Marino - 20:57
Nemec - 19:52
Siegenthaler - 19:20
Bahl - 17:32

He did outplay Miller (15:55) and Smith (16:06) - two guys potentially at the end of their NHL careers and the latter of which also saw plenty of time as a 4th line forward/defense PK specialist last season - as well as guys like DeSimone (16:29), Foote (14:46) and Hatakka (14:39) who were call-ups/waiver claims that filled in for a combined 27 games.

So, no - he was never solid second pairing for NJ last season. Maybe when Siegenthaler missed 25 games due to injury and Bahl had to play up on LD due to NJ's lack of depth there.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I mean he just played top four minutes for you guys. 82 games with 17 minutes plus is solid second pairing.

Calgary's in no rush. We can give him time to sort out the kinks

17 minutes a night is not a 2nd pairing DMan.

 

[Mobiandi]

This guy sounds like an attempt at a cheaper Zadorov replacement. Why not

 

[Smitty426]

He’s for sure an everyday NHLer, and he probably carves himself out a solid NHL career. You’re right, he’s not a finished product, and he has shown flashes of being able to have some monster shifts where physically he looks like a man amongst boys. To this point though, using his size consistently has been an issue. His skillset also does not look like he has a legit top 4 ceiling, but he can be a monster bottom pair guy who can clear the net front and handle the puck well enough. He makes mistakes, but he already is a pretty good decision maker and seems to recognize his role and what he needs to do to put together a good career.

Agree with all except clear the net front. Somehow he loses all of those battles this year and ends up in the box for x checking!

 

[DJJones]

17 minutes a night is not a 2nd pairing DMan.

I mean Kylington was 17. f*** Kylington was our #3 for most of his games

Our bottom pairing guys were 12-14 minutes.

 

[HBK27]

According to Friedman (on Marek's podcast), the Flames wanted a 1st and roster player and liked Bahl. Markstrom also wanted to go East since he's 34 and feels the travel will be better for him (and NJ has perhaps the easiest travel schedule in the league).

 

[TrufleShufle]

According to Friedman (on Marek's podcast), the Flames wanted a 1st and roster player and liked Bahl. Markstrom also wanted to go East since he's 34 and feels the travel will be better for him (and NJ has perhaps the easiest travel schedule in the league).

1st and a roster player? Interesting ask.

 

[HBK27]

1st and a roster player? Interesting ask.

Yes, though apparently the hold up these past few months was that they couldn't agree whether Bahl was a roster player or prospect. /s

 

[Forge]

1st and a roster player? Interesting ask.

Feels like Conroy has done this a few times now. Kuz back in the Lindholm trade. Rango / toffoli. Now this

 

[HighLifeMan]

1st and a roster player? Interesting ask.

*Young roster player.

Conroy has been pretty open about wanting to find guys who can step into bigger roles. (Bahl, Sharangovich, Miromanov)

 

[TrufleShufle]

Relax guys, was just a small dig.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I mean Kylington was 17. f*** Kylington was our #3 for most of his games

Our bottom pairing guys were 12-14 minutes.

????

Among Devils' DMen that played at least 500 minutes, Bahl was 5th in ATOI (nearly 2 minutes/game behind Siegenthaler who was 4th)

Among Flames' DMen that played at least 500 minutes, Kylington was 5th in ATOI (over 2.5 minutes/game behind Tanev who was 4th)

 

[BostonBob]

And he is not the first goalie in the NHL that had a baby lol

He would be and it would be a really big story.

Dude said Markstrom struggled because he had a newborn like it’s normal for goalie to struggle when they had babies

 

[Double Dion]

Something Bahl could not do. Bahl could be a 5 but when? Waiting for it to happen may have taken through our contending years (at least the start of them). Talk Vegas into sending us McNabb and were set (I'd add Colin Miller as the extra, just in case)

I'm not saying you guys should have kept Bahl. This was a good trade for you. Bahl is a bottom pairing guy. I'd have him as a 6 now who should develop into a 5. I think you need a 3/4 who can defend. Someone like McNabb or Tanev.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Agree with all except clear the net front. Somehow he loses all of those battles this year and ends up in the box for x checking!

Meh, wouldn’t go as far as to say that. Should he be more effective cleaning the net front? Sure, but it’s also more of a projection. As he ages I think he can get more effective sans the cross checking penalties.

 

[Double Dion]

Look, I realize this is just @Double Dion schtick - acting obnoxious and pretending that Bahl is still a prospect to gloat about supposedly being right or something, but nobody still considered him a prospect...which is fine as it's not any worse for Calgary to have gotten a graduated NHL player instead.

When Pronman did his NJ Devils prospects ranking a year ago (Aug '23) he had already listed Bahl as a graduate.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4794288/2023/08/24/new-jersey-devils-nhl-prospect-pipeline-rankings/

View attachment 884768

Same for Wheeler's ranking in February of this year.

2024 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 22 New Jersey Devils

After back-to-back years as a top-five ranked pool, the Devils' system is starting to look a lot different.

www.nytimes.com

View attachment 884770

Anyway, I realize this won't make a rats ass difference and you will continue to act like you need to act for whatever strange satisfaction you get out of it. You could've just said that it worked out better that Calgary got a young NHL player instead of a prospect, but if you want to pretend that he's still a prospect when nobody in the industry would label him that, then have at it.

I don't care if everyone in the world thinks differently than me. I care about accuracy and integrity. If you want to misuse language that's your right. I'll be accurate and full of integrity. I've been wrong a couple of times, but I always acknowledge it and learn from it. I said there was no way Monahan brings back a 1st. I was wrong. I learned that some NHL GMs do really stupid things sometimes.

 

[HBK27]

I don't care if everyone in the world thinks differently than me. I care about accuracy and integrity. If you want to misuse language that's your right. I'll be accurate and full of integrity. I've been wrong a couple of times, but I always acknowledge it and learn from it. I said there was no way Monahan brings back a 1st. I was wrong. I learned that some NHL GMs do really stupid things sometimes.

: yawn :

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Really the comparision was a good skating defender only, nothing more. I watched Niedermeyer in early yrs, he was very much like Luke, pretty bad defensively (threw things at my tv). Jacque Lemaire fixed that (did so with Kovy too btw). No on 1st ballot, but he will be special offensively

Really the comparision was a good skating defender only, nothing more. I watched Niedermeyer in early yrs, he was very much like Luke, pretty bad defensively (threw things at my tv). Jacque Lemaire fixed that (did so with Kovy too btw). No on 1st ballot, but he will be special offensively

Neidermayer/Luke Hughes comparison isn't close to an accurate one.

In his early years, Neidermayer sometimes made mistakes trying to do things he could no longer do against better NHL players.

Hughes on the other hand is unwilling to do the things necessary to do to be an NHL defenseman and has shown little interest in being responsible position-wise.

Based on the ice time he has been gifted, and lack of consequences when he commits errors, there is little incentive for Hughes to make improvements.

Had he been permitted to do so, a coach like Lindy Ruff would have been able to correct the flaws in Luke's game. That is not likely to happen with Sheldon Keefe or any other coach hired by Harris/Blitzer.

 

[DJJones]

????

Among Devils' DMen that played at least 500 minutes, Bahl was 5th in ATOI (nearly 2 minutes/game behind Siegenthaler who was 4th)

Among Flames' DMen that played at least 500 minutes, Kylington was 5th in ATOI (over 2.5 minutes/game behind Tanev who was 4th)

Kylington played like 10 games with Tanev and Hanifin. You can't just look at ATOI if someone only played 20 games.

If you played 17 minutes a night, you're playing about 1/3 of the time on the 3rd pair and 2/3's of the time on the 2nd pair. That's what happened with Kylington. Like you can see when the change happens, ~Feb 27th, Kylington goes from 13 to 16 minutes, to 17 to 21 minutes. So #5 to #3. Just googled it and Tanev traded feb 29th. So there ya go.

Bahl's the same story, Oct 18-20 minutes, obviously 2nd pair. Nov 13-15 minutes, pretty clearly 3rd pair. Presumably someone came back from injury. Dec is all over the place but then come new years he's getting 20 plus minutes half the time.

Unless you guys regularly play 3rd pairing guys 21-22 minutes a night I guess.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

My guy, I don't know what to tell you. 17 minutes a night for a DMan is not 2nd pairing....plain and simple. Bahl is not and was not a 2nd pairing DMan last year. Could he maybe turn into that down the line? Sure I guess, but I wouldn't hold my breath.