Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Keefe? are you kidding
NJ will find out how good Keefe is just like the Pens discovered Dubas

Keefe now has a better D corps and goaltending duo than he ever had in Toronto. And his teams in Toronto actually put up decent defensive metrics.

does that hurt your feelings?

 

[Figgy44]

Markstrom has not declined. For the majority of the season he was a top flight goalie, particularly with high danger chances.

His number decline in the last 20 games 10-15 games or so after coming off of an injury and then when the core of the Flames d-corps were traded. The new pairings were out of sync to a great degree and two of the newbies (Miromanov, Pachal) were rookies.

He ended the year with a .905 Sv% and 2.78 GAA.

League average Sv% was .903. League average GAA was 2.91.

The Devils did just fine of this deal. It remains to be seen how well the Flames did. Bahl is a key piece, of course, and I have no doubt he will grow into a fan favourite. It remains to be seen how the 2025 draft pick will turn out.

To add to this, the primary "decline" happens when he's overplayed (which Sutter loved to do). So after a while, you'll see natural drop off after too many games are played in a season.

Two seasons ago, during the Dallas series where he squared off against Otter, both guys were insanely good. That was a rough series. "Pure excuses": but by the time the series ended, everyone was sorta fried and it was pond hockey with the Oilers knocking us out. IIRC, Otter ended up with a little bit of a slump the season afterwards, but was able to sort it out relatively quickly (within a few months).

With less rest and a new season starting, it turned out that Marky's wife was pregnant. His mind was on that. It was believed/rumored that both Marky and Lindholm didn't have an easy path towards fatherhood. So his mind was perhaps naturally distracted and concerned by that. Then last season, they played the season as new dads. Those that know of being a dad for the first time know how distracting it can be, even with a lot of help.

This season, he steadily got back to his form from 2 seasons ago, until I guess his packed bags were left in his living room and the talent in front of him was decimated and the structure used by the coaches to address this complete change in talent probably messed everyone up.

There are things that can be considered legitimate reasons for his drop in play. There is evidence he can bring himself back to a high level of play as recent as a few months ago. There are legitimate reasons for his recent drop in play.

I think age is a factor for sure. NJD won't get into too much trouble if they platoon and give opportunity for the young guys on a regular basis. Demand more than 65 games from Marky in a season and he might start getting exhausted (as any goalie would) but perhaps the body gets extra sore too at that age. Around 55-62 games in the regular season and it shouldn't be a problem at all.

He will try to return too early after injury (if it happens). This is especially important to try and prevent due to his age, but also because he rightfully will not play well since he is not at 100%.

NJD fans should be more than happy with Marky. If things collapse, I think they'd agree it was due to circumstances that would have caused a drop in play for even the league's top 5 elite goalies. I think you guys will quickly be happy with Marky.

 

[TheSuperElite]

What an awful trade for Calgary.

 

[Curufinwe]

What an awful trade for Calgary.

Goalies aren't worth that much, this goalie had an NMC, is 34 years old, and the relationship was already in the trash. They did fine.

 

[TBF1972]

The Devils got their goalie, and maybe he Bahls out. Got a felling they've been chasing him for a while, and maybe Bahl isn't a lot to give at all to get him. The Devils are probably expecting that pick to be high 20's. The only sus thing is firing Lindy and then going out for the tender he was likely wanting.

i am fine with 17th and above

 

[Smitty426]

View attachment 884666

Trouba does this in NY and the team goes on a tear, love it!

 

[TBF1972]

That 80% is either way off or a poor reflection on the judgment of a large segment of the fan base. Until proven otherwise, Casey is another Reilly Walsh; talented offensively but an undersized liability in his own end. Hope he proves me wrong. But Bahl is a capable NHL defender with size and mobility. He will flourish with the Flames.

*)

rest of the devils fan base

 

[HighLifeMan]

Going after Bahl is pretty much Conroy's whole strategy. Guys looking desperately for depth defenseman that are undervalued that they think have potential. If miromanov and Bahl can become legitimate #4/#5s, the guys a genius.

Teams protect "prospects" too much and overvalue them. He's watched Calgary lose 3 or 4 depth defenders way to early in the last few years for nothing. He's banking on other teams making the same mistake

You could easily argue that Bahl is already a capable #4/5 though coming off a season of 17 1/2 minutes a night last year with relatively strong defensive+pk metrics. That TOI/G puts him right in line with the likes of Zadorov, Kylington, Orlov, and Soucy. I think people are underselling this player a tad. Miromanov obviously has more to prove but his play down the stretch was incredibly promising.

The Devils did just fine of this deal. It remains to be seen how well the Flames did. Bahl is a key piece, of course, and I have no doubt he will grow into a fan favourite. It remains to be seen how the 2025 draft pick will turn out.

Personally, I don't think it remains to be seen how well the Flames did here. They are in rarified air getting a 1st round pick and young roster player for a 34 year old netminder - especially one who has had more poor games than good over the past two years combined. They did well in the value they received back and history paints that picture pretty clearly.

 

[Smitty426]

Niedermeyer is a pretty lofty comparison. I like Hughes and think he'll be top pairing. I don't think he's going to be a 1st ballot hall of famer.

In regard to Bahl. Are you saying he's a 6 now or that's his ceiling? I agree he's a 6 now, but think he can get to a 5 slot.

Really the comparision was a good skating defender only, nothing more. I watched Niedermeyer in early yrs, he was very much like Luke, pretty bad defensively (threw things at my tv). Jacque Lemaire fixed that (did so with Kovy too btw). No on 1st ballot, but he will be special offensively

 

[Smitty426]

I think the Devils got the right goalie for the right amount of time. They gave up the right assets. This is a good deal for them. Markstrom will help them a lot. They just need one or the young guys to be ready in 2 years. I think they're a top 6 team in the east next year easily as long as they add one defenseman who can defend and make a pass.

Something Bahl could not do. Bahl could be a 5 but when? Waiting for it to happen may have taken through our contending years (at least the start of them). Talk Vegas into sending us McNabb and were set (I'd add Colin Miller as the extra, just in case)

 

[HBK27]

You could easily argue that Bahl is already a capable #4/5 though coming off a season of 17 1/2 minutes a night last year with relatively strong defensive+pk metrics. That TOI/G puts him right in line with the likes of Zadorov, Kylington, Orlov, and Soucy. I think people are underselling this player a tad. Miromanov obviously has more to prove but his play down the stretch was incredibly promising.

I like Bahl and wasn't thrilled to see him go as part of the deal, but he is most certainly not a 2nd pairing defenseman at this point. #5 is a stretch as well. He's still only 24, so it doesn't mean he won't get there though.

In some ways he seemed to take a little step back last season after showing good promise the prior year, including in the playoffs. This probably wasn't completely unexpected though as growth is not linear for young players and he was thrust into a more prominent role given the departures of Graves & Severson in the offseason, plus a good amount of injuries on the Devils blueline. Still the Devils game him an opportunity to fill Graves' role and he probably came up a bit short - again, maybe not fair of them to put a 23-year old in that position in the first place, but there was reason to believe he could take that step.

Fitz has stated that he was looking to make an upgrade on defense, which made it seem like Bahl might be the odd man out as the other 5 defensemen all seem set with their positions. I don't think he was necessarily looking to dump him - and I've heard that Calgary was after Bahl - but they might've been fine going in another direction with his LD spot. I think he'll be good for Calgary though and expect his game to continue to improve.

 

[Smitty426]

You could easily argue that Bahl is already a capable #4/5 though coming off a season of 17 1/2 minutes a night last year with relatively strong defensive+pk metrics. That TOI/G puts him right in line with the likes of Zadorov, Kylington, Orlov, and Soucy. I think people are underselling this player a tad. Miromanov obviously has more to prove but his play down the stretch was incredibly promising.



Personally, I don't think it remains to be seen how well the Flames did here. They are in rarified air getting a 1st round pick and young roster player for a 34 year old netminder - especially one who has had more poor games than good over the past two years combined. They did well in the value they received back and history paints that picture pretty clearly.

I could argue it all day! Listen you guys are happy with the return but unless he finds the pay he had in playoffs last year vs NY, he was a waste on this team. Friends of mine texted me when the trade happen, that I was happy and called it. Maybe he works out, I wont be mad. He's got a ceiling and we needed more than what his is.

 

[DJJones]

You could easily argue that Bahl is already a capable #4/5 though coming off a season of 17 1/2 minutes a night last year with relatively strong defensive+pk metrics. That TOI/G puts him right in line with the likes of Zadorov, Kylington, Orlov, and Soucy. I think people are underselling this player a tad. Miromanov obviously has more to prove but his play down the stretch was incredibly promising.

Ya I haven't watched him play enough to make an assessment but everything points to Bahl being a perfect player for Calgary. People are acting like Bahl and Miromanov were worthless throw ins on the trades.

Miromanov exceeded my expectations wildly. Unless he regresses wildly he seems like a great Zadorov replacement as a #5 with some offensive skill that can move up when necessary. I don't want him on our top pairing playing 22 minutes a night but he didn't look terrible in that role. I got him penciled in as an effective #5 to start the year.

If Bahl is right there as well all of a sudden our defense isn't the absolute tire fire that it was at the end of last year with Pachal and insert random player as our bottom pair. I can't even remember all the names

 

[HighLifeMan]

I could argue it all day! Listen you guys are happy with the return but unless he finds the pay he had in playoffs last year vs NY, he was a waste on this team. Friends of mine texted me when the trade happen, that I was happy and called it. Maybe he works out, I wont be mad. He's got a ceiling and we needed more than what his is.

Haha, that's fair. I am sure you could. Just based on his usage last year however he was a borderline middle pair guy. Now you could argue that was because of injury, and I am sure you will, but you also have to remember that this was his first full NHL season. He's far from a finished product and It's a tough position to play. The guy can clearly play defense at the NHL level, but also has some clear areas that need improvement.

 

[Forge]

What an awful trade for Calgary.

Disagree wholeheartedly.

 

[Nocashstyle]

Haha, that's fair. I am sure you could. Just based on his usage last year however he was a borderline middle pair guy. Now you could argue that was because of injury, and I am sure you will, but you also have to remember that this was his first full NHL season. He's far from a finished product and It's a tough position to play. The guy can clearly play defense at the NHL level, but also has some clear areas that need improvement.

He’s for sure an everyday NHLer, and he probably carves himself out a solid NHL career. You’re right, he’s not a finished product, and he has shown flashes of being able to have some monster shifts where physically he looks like a man amongst boys. To this point though, using his size consistently has been an issue. His skillset also does not look like he has a legit top 4 ceiling, but he can be a monster bottom pair guy who can clear the net front and handle the puck well enough. He makes mistakes, but he already is a pretty good decision maker and seems to recognize his role and what he needs to do to put together a good career.

 

[Bond]

He’s for sure an everyday NHLer, and he probably carves himself out a solid NHL career. You’re right, he’s not a finished product, and he has shown flashes of being able to have some monster shifts where physically he looks like a man amongst boys. To this point though, using his size consistently has been an issue. His skillset also does not look like he has a legit top 4 ceiling, but he can be a monster bottom pair guy who can clear the net front and handle the puck well enough. He makes mistakes, but he already is a pretty good decision maker and seems to recognize his role and what he needs to do to put together a good career.

So he is a Gudbranson. I don't hate it

 

[Forge]

So he is a Gudbranson. I don't hate it

Hand to God, the person I kept thinking of

 

[Nocashstyle]

So he is a Gudbranson. I don't hate it

Not a bad comparison. Bahl still has a little bit to go, but probably a pretty comparable on ice impact when all is said and done.

 

[Voight]

That’s it? Maybe I’m underselling Bahl, but that seems less than expected.

I think Markstrom had a full NTC/NMC? I didn't hear any rumours that he wouldn't waive for certain places but I imagine at his age he wants to play for a contender.

Flames have loads of cap space, why not retain 50% to maximize the return?

I mean, if you're Calgary's GM, why are you offering Markstrom at anything less than 50% retention?

Probably ownership.

 

[toddkaz]

Just because you were wrong about the return is no reason to be wrong twice. You have a flawed definition of prospect. Here is how Merriam Webster defines it. If you're from across the pond I can post the Oxford definition for you:

a
: the act of looking forward : ANTICIPATION
b
: a mental picture of something to come : VISION
c
: something that is awaited or expected : POSSIBILITY
d prospects plural
(1)
: financial expectations
(2)
: CHANCES

If you need some help interpreting that it means a player who isn't finished their development. As an example, Danil Miromanov who will be 27 is still a prospect. Akira Schmid is still a prospect and is older than Bahl. Sam Bennett when we traded him to Florida at almost 25 years old was still a prospect.

You were already wrong once, no need to be wrong twice just to try to undo the past. Learn from your mistakes and move forward. If you do, tomorrow you'll be better than you are today.


Because if our pick isn't in the top 10 it goes to Montreal. I really don't want to be sending out pick 11-15 for one year of dumping Monahan. That would be the worst case scenario.

Bahl is not a prospect.

You can quote dictionaries all you want but 23 year olds with 2 seasons under their belts aren't prospects

 

[Xirik]

Keefe? are you kidding
NJ will find out how good Keefe is just like the Pens discovered Dubas

Well Keefe already has a better goalie and Defense then he ever had with the leafs and its not like the Leafs forwards are miles ahead of the devils either.er.

Still feels like the Devils defence is worse than it was when their goaltending was alright.

It's called a cap and not overspending on average players even though they might be good in the short term.

Would have thought a canucks fan would understand that after over a decade with Benning.

 

[HighLifeMan]

I think Markstrom had a full NTC/NMC? I didn't hear any rumours that he wouldn't waive for certain places but I imagine at his age he wants to play for a contender.



Probably ownership.

Or NJ got the amount of retention they needed at a cost they were happy with? That seems the most likely to me.

 

[My3Sons]

Ya I haven't watched him play enough to make an assessment but everything points to Bahl being a perfect player for Calgary. People are acting like Bahl and Miromanov were worthless throw ins on the trades.

Miromanov exceeded my expectations wildly. Unless he regresses wildly he seems like a great Zadorov replacement as a #5 with some offensive skill that can move up when necessary. I don't want him on our top pairing playing 22 minutes a night but he didn't look terrible in that role. I got him penciled in as an effective #5 to start the year.

If Bahl is right there as well all of a sudden our defense isn't the absolute tire fire that it was at the end of last year with Pachal and insert random player as our bottom pair. I can't even remember all the names

Bahl shows flashes but struggles to sustain his best level of play. He seems like a well intentioned guy and of Calgary can let him marinate for a couple of more years he might be able to perform on a second pair on a game in game out basis

 

[DJJones]

Bahl shows flashes but struggles to sustain his best level of play. He seems like a well intentioned guy and of Calgary can let him marinate for a couple of more years he might be able to perform on a second pair on a game in game out basis

If he didn't struggle after his first full year he'd be the most valuable piece in the trade haha.

I don't get how people are seemingly so dismissive of a young defender with 2nd pairing potential that is pretty much already there.