Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[DJJones]

My guy, I don't know what to tell you. 17 minutes a night for a DMan is not 2nd pairing....plain and simple. Bahl is not and was not a 2nd pairing DMan last year. Could he maybe turn into that down the line? Sure I guess, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Well if he's third pairing for us he'll be lucky to get 13-14 minutes so you got some wacky ass toi decisions.

Don't think we have a single instance of a 3rd pairing guy cracking 21 minutes all year. Hanley got 20:45 one game. Must have been like two injuries during play haha

Edit: checked, Hanley was on the 2nd pair. Hanifin, Tanev, Kylington, and Zadorov all gone. God that was a dark period

 

[HighLifeMan]

John Marino was by far and away Bahl's most common partner last year at five on five. He also led all Devils defensemen in defensive zone starts.
That doesn't happen unless he played significant portions in the top four. It's quite clear that due to injuries he played higher in the lineup then intended, but the statistics suggest to me that he more than held his own given his useage.

 

[HBK27]

Yes, Bahl played up at times because of the many injuries the Devils blueline suffered last season.

Is there any dispute that he was clearly the Devils 6th best defenseman at the time of the trade? He averaged nearly 2 minutes less total and even strength ice time compared to NJ's top 5 guys.

It's a ridiculous argument Calgary fans are making with Devils that had to suffer through watching that last season and saw how Bahl was being utilized.

 

[Double Dion]

Yes, Bahl played up at times because of the many injuries the Devils blueline suffered last season.

Is there any dispute that he was clearly the Devils 6th best defenseman at the time of the trade? He averaged nearly 2 minutes less total and even strength ice time compared to NJ's top 5 guys.

It's a ridiculous argument Calgary fans are making with Devils that had to suffer through watching that last season and saw how Bahl was being utilized.

As disingenuous as you've been in some of our other interactions recently I agree with you here. Bahl did play more minutes than your typical bottom pairing defenseman at times. This can't be debated. However, it also can't be debated that the reason for it was injuries. I see him as a #6 defenseman who can PK. I think he can become a #5 defenseman who can PK and be physical.

I suppose it's possible than he can develop into a second pairing guy, but I think it's unlikely. Zadorov did it, but he had attributes than Bahl doesn't have. Bahl skates okish, Zadorov is a 6'6" burner. Zadorov had better puck skills as well.

 

[TBF1972]

Neidermayer/Luke Hughes comparison isn't close to an accurate one.

In his early years, Neidermayer sometimes made mistakes trying to do things he could no longer do against better NHL players.

Hughes on the other hand is unwilling to do the things necessary to do to be an NHL defenseman and has shown little interest in being responsible position-wise.

Based on the ice time he has been gifted, and lack of consequences when he commits errors, there is little incentive for Hughes to make improvements.

Had he been permitted to do so, a coach like Lindy Ruff would have been able to correct the flaws in Luke's game. That is not likely to happen with Sheldon Keefe or any other coach hired by Harris/Blitzer.

what is your issue with the hughes family? are you an anti-semit?

honest question

 

[DJJones]

Yes, Bahl played up at times because of the many injuries the Devils blueline suffered last season.

Is there any dispute that he was clearly the Devils 6th best defenseman at the time of the trade? He averaged nearly 2 minutes less total and even strength ice time compared to NJ's top 5 guys.

It's a ridiculous argument Calgary fans are making with Devils that had to suffer through watching that last season and saw how Bahl was being utilized.

He literally played 2nd pairing for half your season. Like yes, your two top 4 draft picks are better than him. I would certainly hope so. But it's also quite clear that he got played over them because they are typical teenagers that can't defend worth shit without the puck.

He played over 500 minutes with John Marino. Did they play as the 3rd pairing? Or was that used as a shut down 2nd pairing, getting the tough minutes to protect the offensive guys.

Like shit, Miromanov shouldn't have been on our top pair, he wasn't our 2nd best defensemen, but anyone who argues that he didn't absolutely play on our top pair is just being silly.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Neidermayer/Luke Hughes comparison isn't close to an accurate one.

In his early years, Neidermayer sometimes made mistakes trying to do things he could no longer do against better NHL players.

Hughes on the other hand is unwilling to do the things necessary to do to be an NHL defenseman and has shown little interest in being responsible position-wise.

Based on the ice time he has been gifted, and lack of consequences when he commits errors, there is little incentive for Hughes to make improvements.

Had he been permitted to do so, a coach like Lindy Ruff would have been able to correct the flaws in Luke's game. That is not likely to happen with Sheldon Keefe or any other coach hired by Harris/Blitzer.

Gotta be a Rangers fan at this point masquerading on a Devils account.

 

[HBK27]

He literally played 2nd pairing for half your season. Like yes, your two top 4 draft picks are better than him. I would certainly hope so. But it's also quite clear that he got played over them because they are typical teenagers that can't defend worth shit without the puck.

He played over 500 minutes with John Marino. Did they play as the 3rd pairing? Or was that used as a shut down 2nd pairing, getting the tough minutes to protect the offensive guys.

Like shit, Miromanov shouldn't have been on our top pair, he wasn't our 2nd best defensemen, but anyone who argues that he didn't absolutely play on our top pair is just being silly.

Luke Hughes led the team in ATOI and there were many nights he was on the "3rd pairing" with Brendan Smith.

Teams don't just stack their 4 best defenseman on the top two pairings and throw together whoever left on the bottom pair. You move players around, try to find some chemistry or get better matchups, see how different pairings work, etc.

If that makes you feel better that Bahl did play up in the lineup at times on an injury-depleted defense with two rookies, then great. Doesn't change the fact that he was clearly NJ's 6th defenseman last season or that he's a bottom pairing defenseman in this league at this moment with potential to possibly be a 2nd pairing guy one day.

 

[DJJones]

Luke Hughes led the team in ATOI and there were many nights he was on the "3rd pairing" with Brendan Smith.

Teams don't just stack their 4 best defenseman on the top two pairings and throw together whoever left on the bottom pair. You move players around, try to find some chemistry or get better matchups, see how different pairings work, etc.

If that makes you feel better that Bahl did play up in the lineup at times on an injury-depleted defense with two rookies, then great. Doesn't change the fact that he was clearly NJ's 6th defenseman last season or that he's a bottom pairing defenseman in this league at this moment with potential to possibly be a 2nd pairing guy one day.

That's exactly what the majority of teams do. You 100% stack the top 4.

If Luke Hughes requires that much protection that's a huge issue. That's not normal. If your third pairing is over 15 minutes, you better have blown that team out and are resting the top 4.

 

[HBK27]

That's exactly what the majority of teams do. You 100% stack the top 4.

If Luke Hughes requires that much protection that's a huge issue. That's not normal. If your third pairing is over 15 minutes, you better have blown that team out and are resting the top 4.

Alright you got me. Bahl is clearly a top 4 defenseman at this point. Luke Hughes has huge red flags. I think Fitz traded the wrong defenseman.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I can't even begin to understand the mechanics of a guy playing the 6th most minutes among defenseman on a team, and having fans that never watched a minute of those games dying on the hill that he's actually one of that team's top-4 d-man. Incredibly weird.

 

[Evergreen]

I love this for NJ.

 

[gach]

NJ gets a goalie and flames get a first and a prospect...good deal for both

 

[HighLifeMan]

I can't even begin to understand the mechanics of a guy playing the 6th most minutes among defenseman on a team, and having fans that never watched a minute of those games dying on the hill that he's actually one of that team's top-4 d-man. Incredibly weird.

No one (certainly not me) stated he's a top four defensemen on a healthy devils team.

All I did was point out that he did in fact play an extended period of time in the top four this past year and by the numbers, did an adequate job considering his deployment.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Keefe now has a better D corps and goaltending duo than he ever had in Toronto. And his teams in Toronto actually put up decent defensive metrics.

does that hurt your feelings?

?

 

[Xirik]

?

He hit you right on the nose didn't he?

 

[DJJones]

No one (certainly not me) stated he's a top four defensemen on a healthy devils team.

All I did was point out that he did in fact play an extended period of time in the top four this past year and by the numbers, did an adequate job considering his deployment.

Ya no idea why this is so hard for them to understand haha. It doesn't matter if Hamilton is better than him if he only played 20 games.

He clearly played a lot of time as 2nd pairing. If you don't think he should have played there, that's great, but refusing to admit it happened is just odd.

We had Hanley - Miromanov as our 2nd pairing for a few games. I didn't like it, Hanley should not have been there but ya it happened.

 

[Figgy44]

Well if he's third pairing for us he'll be lucky to get 13-14 minutes so you got some wacky ass toi decisions.

Don't think we have a single instance of a 3rd pairing guy cracking 21 minutes all year. Hanley got 20:45 one game. Must have been like two injuries during play haha

Edit: checked, Hanley was on the 2nd pair. Hanifin, Tanev, Kylington, and Zadorov all gone. God that was a dark period

Do you remember how upset some posters were that we waived DeSimone and he got claimed? (Coincidentally by Jersey).

Seriously, they were upset about the difference between DeSimone and Oesterle on the roster.

 

[DJJones]

Do you remember how upset some posters were that we waived DeSimone and he got claimed? (Coincidentally by Jersey).

Seriously, they were upset about the difference between DeSimone and Oesterle on the roster.

DeSimone, Osterle, Hanley, Gilbert, Pachal, Okhotiuk. Just a revolving door of #7s. Pachal I liked, could be our #6. Then Kuznetsoc and Solovyov for some change. Like 7 guys, I couldn't care less about.

Like yes, I am happy to see the guy was on a pairing with Marino and did okay. That is a huge upgrade for us.

 

[dgibb10]

Do you remember how upset some posters were that we waived DeSimone and he got claimed? (Coincidentally by Jersey).

Seriously, they were upset about the difference between DeSimone and Oesterle on the roster.

Oh god is Calgary going to play kevin bahl in a top pairing role, have his quality of play not change at all, and then have your entire fanbase convinced he's "broken out".

 

[DJJones]

Oh god is Calgary going to play kevin bahl in a top pairing role, have his quality of play not change at all, and then have your entire fanbase convinced he's "broken out".

I mean if he plays in a top pairing role and does alright I am definitely cracking the champagne. Who the hell wouldn't.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I liked Bahl but honestly I would have rather kept Okhotyuk over him in the Meier trade. Now he’s gone to the K.

 

[My3Sons]

If he didn't struggle after his first full year he'd be the most valuable piece in the trade haha.

I don't get how people are seemingly so dismissive of a young defender with 2nd pairing potential that is pretty much already there.

I don’t think most NJ fans are dismissive of him. It’s just not fair to call him anything close to a reliable player this season. In two years you might get a steady second pair guy or you might get a third pair guy who can help on the PK. It’s hard to say right now.

 

[QuizGuy66]

He would be and it would be a really big story.

Manon Rheuame was first...

 

[Xirik]

I don’t think most NJ fans are dismissive of him. It’s just not fair to call him anything close to a reliable player this season. In two years you might get a steady second pair guy or you might get a third pair guy who can help on the PK. It’s hard to say right now.

I agree ,he's definitely a reliable player he's just so frustrating to watch when you've seen him become a physical force in the playoffs then show it that only three to four games the next season.