Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[dgibb10]

I don’t think most NJ fans are dismissive of him. It’s just not fair to call him anything close to a reliable player this season. In two years you might get a steady second pair guy or you might get a third pair guy who can help on the PK. It’s hard to say right now.

Nonono it's time for flames fans to convince themselves this was who they wanted all along. I don't think I saw a single flames fan interested in Kevin Bahl pre trade lmao

 

[BostonBob]

He would be and it would be a really big story.

Manon Rheuame was first...

Well played.

 

[My3Sons]

Nonono it's time for flames fans to convince themselves this was who they wanted all along. I don't think I saw a single flames fan interested in Kevin Bahl pre trade lmao

Probably not but he’s a decent gamble as a development project. NJ can move him with some idea that his role can be taken by a similar veteran.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Terrible trade for the Devils. He was good once, but now? Giving up a first for him just isn't a good idea. What happens if he struggles next season? A first goes completely to waste. They should just have hired a goalie via UFA if this was the best trade available.


Akira Schmid who put up .895 this past season, and .922 the season before, yes.

Also, just the previous season, Markström himself put up .892 and with that level of performance, he wouldn't even be an upgrade.

He's 34 and you're either banking on him to improve(good luck), or you're banking on him to replicate the last season's mediocre performance instead of the previous year's(good luck), all the while paying a first for two years of him.

It's just a terrible trade, no matter the way you slice it.

While playing back up number of games, yes. Markstrom has always carried the load in Calgary. He's played far more than Schmid or Daws ever have. And while I have high hopes for those goaltenders you don't want someone that young having a ton of load in a playoff team that wants to win the cup. Markstrom likely still has at least 2 more good years in him and the Flames were a tire fire this and last year, there's no reason to think that he can't return somewhat to form on a much better team.

I don't think you get that the Devils goaltending has sucked for years and they have tried 6+ goaltenders. Markstrom at least has a good pedigree and is experienced and has the potential to steal games and play well, he just needs to get hot for the playoffs and the Devils will be more than happy with him.

 

[dgibb10]

Probably not but he’s a decent gamble as a development project. NJ can move him with some idea that his role can be taken by a similar veteran.

Oh yeah I suggested Bahl and Jordan Harris as 2 relatively cheap targets for Calgary a while back given their absolute lack of depth on the left side.

But the retroactive pretending of "well I actually wanted him more than holtz all along" is hilarious to see.

 

[CF84]

Nonono it's time for flames fans to convince themselves this was who they wanted all along. I don't think I saw a single flames fan interested in Kevin Bahl pre trade lmao

Come back to CalgaryPuck!! We miss you and your brilliant takes following the trade like:

"Don't want to say I told you so but I told you so."

When this is what you had actually told everyone beforehand:

"Again, a massive drop off in play. If he doesn't get it back together by the end of the season you're looking less and less like Schneider to NJD and more and more like Fleury to Chicago."
- dgibb10

It was funny to see you argue that the return was much closer to a Fleury return than Schneider after you were called out. Also, I'm not trying to imply that Markstrom returned the same a Schneider, but I'll still spell it out because otherwise you might try to argue.

I hope you like Markstrom even if he wasn't your first choice of a goalie personally!

 

[dgibb10]

Come back to CalgaryPuck!! We miss you and your brilliant takes following the trade like:

"Don't want to say I told you so but I told you so."

When this is what you had actually told everyone beforehand:

"Again, a massive drop off in play. If he doesn't get it back together by the end of the season you're looking less and less like Schneider to NJD and more and more like Fleury to Chicago."
- dgibb10

It was funny to see you argue that the return was much closer to a Fleury return than Schneider after you were called out. Also, I'm not trying to imply that Markstrom returned the same a Schneider, but I'll still spell it out because otherwise you might try to argue.

I hope you like Markstrom even if he wasn't your first choice of a goalie personally!

Yeah he was a hell of a lot closer to future considerations unretained than he was 9th overall.

I had pretty consistently suggested post deadline 2025 1st+mid 2nd for him 50% retained. based on the cost of the retention missing (about a mid 2nd), looks like I was off by about a Kevin Bahl. Oh well. Rats. I've only been suggesting we upgrade on bahl for months anyway

Whereas Calgary puck was throwing out: Holtz+2024 1st unretained. Mercer+2024 1st 50% retained.

 

[Smitty426]

Neidermayer/Luke Hughes comparison isn't close to an accurate one.

In his early years, Neidermayer sometimes made mistakes trying to do things he could no longer do against better NHL players. LUKE

Hughes on the other hand is unwilling to do the things necessary to do to be an NHL defenseman and has shown little interest in being responsible position-wise. We agree here but in Year 1 SN was pretty damn close to this. If I remember correctly he was benched a couple times, how I wished that would have happened this year with Luke

Based on the ice time he has been gifted, and lack of consequences when he commits errors, there is little incentive for Hughes to make improvements. We agree here

Had he been permitted to do so, a coach like Lindy Ruff would have been able to correct the flaws in Luke's game. That is not likely to happen with Sheldon Keefe or any other coach hired by Harris/Blitzer. We agree here

So after review, what Niedermeyer WAS when he came in IS similar to what Luke IS currently. Where it veers off is what WAS/WASN'T done to fix each player. Which is miles apart.

 

[JimEIV]

He literally played 2nd pairing for half your season. Like yes, your two top 4 draft picks are better than him. I would certainly hope so. But it's also quite clear that he got played over them because they are typical teenagers that can't defend worth shit without the puck.

He played over 500 minutes with John Marino. Did they play as the 3rd pairing? Or was that used as a shut down 2nd pairing, getting the tough minutes to protect the offensive guys.

Like shit, Miromanov shouldn't have been on our top pair, he wasn't our 2nd best defensemen, but anyone who argues that he didn't absolutely play on our top pair is just being silly.

Those 500 minutes Bahl played with Marino were pretty much first pairing minutes against opposition best lines.

 

[Smitty426]

Meh, wouldn’t go as far as to say that. Should he be more effective cleaning the net front? Sure, but it’s also more of a projection. As he ages I think he can get more effective sans the cross checking penalties.

Not more effective, just effective. How does a guy that big give up real estate. Couldn't be happier with this move from the player going the other way. Yes he should get better.

My guy, I don't know what to tell you. 17 minutes a night for a DMan is not 2nd pairing....plain and simple. Bahl is not and was not a 2nd pairing DMan last year. Could he maybe turn into that down the line? Sure I guess, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Thank you

 

[dgibb10]

Come back to CalgaryPuck!! We miss you and your brilliant takes following the trade like:

"Don't want to say I told you so but I told you so."

When this is what you had actually told everyone beforehand:

"Again, a massive drop off in play. If he doesn't get it back together by the end of the season you're looking less and less like Schneider to NJD and more and more like Fleury to Chicago."
- dgibb10

It was funny to see you argue that the return was much closer to a Fleury return than Schneider after you were called out. Also, I'm not trying to imply that Markstrom returned the same a Schneider, but I'll still spell it out because otherwise you might try to argue.

I hope you like Markstrom even if he wasn't your first choice of a goalie personally!

Also just to spell out some simple estimates.

Puckpedia has the 9th overall pick valued at 36.66

The cost of retention valued at 37th (7.97)

A very late 2nd for Kevin Bahl like I had stated literally the day before he was traded (3.15)

We'll value NJDs pick at 24th, right around where the very smart people running casinos have them (3 way tie for 6th best cup odds). (15.21)

That approximates markstrom unretained at 10.39. Right about equivalent to pick 32nd overall (10.38), where I valued markstrom again literally the day before the trade.

Or about 28.3% of the way to the value of Schneider.

 

[muddywaters]

Thanks Marky for coming to Calgary good luck in New Jersey !!

 

[Figgy44]

Oh god is Calgary going to play kevin bahl in a top pairing role, have his quality of play not change at all, and then have your entire fanbase convinced he's "broken out".

It's... Actually been suggested as something to experiment with. Only by a single poster I think.

I'm glad our coaches aren't that crazy.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It's... Actually been suggested as something to experiment with. Only by a single poster I think.

I'm glad our coaches aren't that crazy.

If he's top pair, better chance at Hagens and McKenna the next 2 years. Positive thinking in that regard.

 

[Oneiro]

Bahl got a bit of a raw deal in a couple of ways. Probably played way too many tough minutes by Marino's side. I guess they didn't like him next to Miller for whatever reason. And of course, the team had two other inexperienced guys also in the lineup and given he's the least talented of the three, got the squeeze since Fitz wasn't going to go another season with this much inexperience.

He's still got quite a bit of potential. I don't see why some NJ fans need to dunk on him. I'm slightly disappointed Keefe doesn't get to develop him because it's a pretty nice thing to have a tall guy with solid wheels and decent puck skills. I think inevitably he'll get mean. Even Myers got mean after a while and it's an advantage.

 

[crazyfisherman]

If he's top pair, better chance at Hagens and McKenna the next 2 years. Positive thinking in that regard.

That sounds like a great plan in all honesty

 

[Double Dion]

If he's top pair, better chance at Hagens and McKenna the next 2 years. Positive thinking in that regard.

Misa is going 1st OA next year I think. Hagens might be ahead now, but I don't think it stays that way. McKenna is a lock.

 

[dgibb10]

It's... Actually been suggested as something to experiment with. Only by a single poster I think.

I'm glad our coaches aren't that crazy.

As long as I don't see another Mike Matheson, where a below average dman gets put into 25 minutes a night of PP1 (where the entire PP runs through him and is bottom 5 in the league), 1LD, and PK1, and isn't really that good at any of the 3 areas, but because he plays all these minutes the fanbase is now convinced he's worth a top 15 pick.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Misa is going 1st OA next year I think. Hagens might be ahead now, but I don't think it stays that way. McKenna is a lock.

Yeah that's fair, 2025 is way more up for grabs. McKenna is doing some McDavid/Bedard ish stuff so he's gonna be the next guy that teams blatantly tank for imo.

 

[Double Dion]

Yeah that's fair, 2025 is way more up for grabs. McKenna is doing some McDavid/Bedard ish stuff so he's gonna be the next guy that teams blatantly tank for imo.

Yup. There's a kid in Calgary right now for 2027 named Landon Dupont. We could be talking the best defenseman of all time if his development continues. It's insane how good he is.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Bahl got a bit of a raw deal in a couple of ways. Probably played way too many tough minutes by Marino's side. I guess they didn't like him next to Miller for whatever reason. And of course, the team had two other inexperienced guys also in the lineup and given he's the least talented of the three, got the squeeze since Fitz wasn't going to go another season with this much inexperience.

He's still got quite a bit of potential. I don't see why some NJ fans need to dunk on him. I'm slightly disappointed Keefe doesn't get to develop him because it's a pretty nice thing to have a tall guy with solid wheels and decent puck skills. I think inevitably he'll get mean. Even Myers got mean after a while and it's an advantage.

I think it's the idea that they can't rely on the defense they did last year. Yeah, you got an upgrade in Markstrom (fingers crossed he doesn't break down or just completely fall apart) but you still needed to change something on the backend with how catastrophic everyone played in 23/24. You're probably right that the 5/6th dman got shipped out but maybe their thinking is if they can improve on Bahl with say a Zadorov in UFA or Hague trade then everyone slots better going into net year with the added goalie.

 

[Double Dion]

I think it's the idea that they can't rely on the defense they did last year. Yeah, you got an upgrade in Markstrom (fingers crossed he doesn't break down or just completely fall apart) but you still needed to change something on the backend with how catastrophic everyone played in 23/24. You're probably right that the 5/6th dman got shipped out but maybe they're thinking is if they can improve on Bahl with say a Zadorov in UFA or Hague trade then everyone slots better going into net year with the added goalie.

There's some smoke around McNabb. He's be a great add for you guys. Vegas has to do at least one probably 2 subtractions.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

There's some smoke around McNabb. He's be a great add for you guys. Vegas has to do at least one probably 2 subtractions.

Wouldn't hate him as well, the LD will get figured out. It's just how much they believe in Siegenthalar to play those top 4 mins with Dougie again or they bring someone else to play with Hamliton and push Siegs to the 3LD. Zadorov Hamliton would be such a goofy ass and chaotic pairing, I'm sure we wouldn't have to tell Flames fans that.

 

[BostonBob]

Yup. There's a kid in Calgary right now for 2027 named Landon Dupont. We could be talking the best defenseman of all time if his development continues. It's insane how good he is.

Take it easy.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Bahl isn't going to be much but Holtz ain't it either. Doesn't bring much other than a shot and gets pushed off the puck easily.

Yeah he was a hell of a lot closer to future considerations unretained than he was 9th overall.

the full delulu