Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[Forge]

I think Saros was never really available too. Ullmark has never played a starters work load. You guys and Markstrom will be a great fit. Markstrom is good at high dangers and behind chaos. The odd softie goes in though, but he'll cover up a lot of defensive mistakes. Ullmark I think is less softies, but not as good at the high dangers.

I wanted Markstrom over Ullmark because I didn't want the 6 year likely commitment to Ullmark vs 2 years and out for Markstrom. I just view him as an extended rental. Teams give up first round picks for rentals all the time, at least i'm getting 2 playoff runs here and it hopefully solves the position. Florida gave up a first for Chiarot. Toronto gave up a first for like 15 games of Foligno so its not like it's the worst use of a future first round pick.

Secondarily, I simply do not believe that Ullmark can carry the load for an entire season and I don't trust him to be able to play every night in the playoffs.

 

[dgibb10]

Whatever you gotta tell yourself I guess
That NJD 2025 pick could be 11th overall for all we know.

You spent months posting that he wasn't worth anything, and now that it turns out he actually is worth something according to you it's only the retention that was worth anything. But yeah sure, basically future considerations

My list of goalie valuations: Markstrom=high 2nd unretained
My other list of goalie valuations: markstrom 50%=1st+2nd

Rats, I was off by a Kevin Bahl, oh no. I've been sending him to calgary in my trade proposals as a sweetener piece for months.

I don't think you will ever find me saying I wouldn't give the 2025 1st for a retained markstrom.

2024 1st, yep I guaranteed calgary would not get. Guess who still owns that pick?
Alex Holtz, yep I said he likely wasn't going to calgary, and certainly not for an unretained markstrom. Guess who calgary didn't get?
Dawson Mercer, yep I guaranteed he likely wasn't going to be in the trade? Guess who calgary didn't get.

Tough shit, enjoy the type of assets I've been saying a retained markstrom would get for months

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I don't like it for Jersey , hope it works out for them

 

[gach]

Yeah I think Jersey got ripped off. Markstrom isn't very good

 

[TBF1972]

I don't know how many times I read that Markstrom is 100% not getting a 1st

you forgot e very important word: unretained.

the value of markstrom at 6m or 5m or 4m or 3m is vastly different. for the buyer the final cap hit defines the value, the seller also considers the term, as you can only retain on three contracts at a time.

the 25 1st round pick today can be anything from 11th to 32nd and the two gm's might have vastly different expectations for it. also bahl's value is in the eye of the beholder. from the devils pov the price was ok but definitely not cheap.

based on the trade we can still debate about the value of an unretained markstrom and you can make arguments for a late first or early second. 10th overall was never in play. so when you return from your victory lap try to have another objective look at it.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

you forgot e very important word: unretained.

the value of markstrom at 6m or 5m or 4m or 3m is vastly different. for the buyer the final cap hit defines the value, the seller also considers the term, as you can only retain on three contracts at a time.

the 25 1st round pick today can be anything from 11th to 32nd and the two gm's might have vastly different expectations for it. also bahl's value is in the eye of the beholder. from the devils pov the price was ok but definitely not cheap.

based on the trade we can still debate about the value of an unretained markstrom and you can make arguments for a late first or early second. 10th overall was never in play. so when you return from your victory lap try to have another objective look at it.

I didn't forget anything. You guys repeated this sooo many times. "Markstrom 100% doesn't get a 1st"

 

[TBF1972]

I didn't forget anything. You guys repeated this sooo many times. "Markstrom 100% doesn't get a 1st"

and without retentian he most likely wouldn't have returned one. but if you prefer to keep the head in the sand i won't stop you.

 

[Fatass]

and without retentian he most likely wouldn't have returned one. but if you prefer to keep the head in the sand i won't stop you.

Didn’t Marky return two firsts: the 2025 pick and Bahl, who was a recent first round pick? So even considering the retention, Markey returned a lot.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

and without retentian he most likely wouldn't have returned one. but if you prefer to keep the head in the sand i won't stop you.

You guys said over & over he wouldn't return a 1st.
He did

Retention was always part of any proposal - from me, anyways, and many others

 

[Fatass]

You guys said over & over he wouldn't return a 1st.
He did

Retention was always part of any proposal - from me, anyways, and many others

Imo Marky returned the first round pick and (the recent first round pick) Bahl was the compensation for the retention.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Didn’t Marky return two firsts: the 2025 pick and Bahl, who was a recent first round pick? So even considering the retention, Markey returned a lot.

Kevin Bahl was a 2nd round pick and he likely wouldn’t have returned a 2nd on his own. You can like the deal for Calgary, but it’s not some lopsided deal in their favour. Both teams for what they wanted out of this trade.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Kevin Bahl was a 2nd round pick and he likely wouldn’t have returned a 2nd on his own. You can like the deal for Calgary, but it’s not some lopsided deal in their favour. Both teams for what they wanted out of this trade.

Agree
I do think the Flames could get a 2nd for Bahl within a year or 2, provided some growth

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Agree
I do think the Flames could get a 2nd for Bahl within a year or 2, provided some growth

I really like Bahl, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case. If he ever figures out to play to his size consistently, he’ll be a nice pick up for the Flames.

 

[Double Dion]

I really like Bahl, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case. If he ever figures out to play to his size consistently, he’ll be a nice pick up for the Flames.

I like Bahl, but I'm not one of these people who think we got a top 4 defenseman here. We got a 6 who can become a 5. Now he's the right type of bottom pairing guy for our organization I think. But he's still a bottom pairing guy.

 

[TBF1972]

Didn’t Marky return two firsts: the 2025 pick and Bahl, who was a recent first round pick? So even considering the retention, Markey returned a lot.

bahl was a second round pick of arizona, who came through the hall trade. devils fans consider his upside third pairing. if you assign first round pick value to him, i can't stop you. it's your opinion.

 

[Xirik]

Imo Marky returned the first round pick and (the recent first round pick) Bahl was the compensation for the retention.

 

[Double Dion]

bahl was a second round pick of arizona, who came through the hall trade. devils fans consider his upside third pairing. if you assign first round pick value to him, i can't stop you. it's your opinion.

I'm in agreement with you on Bahl. He's a 3rd pairing/PK guy. I don't assign 1st round pick value to him. Somewhere late 2nd/early 3rd round value. That said, don't try to use the opinion of Devils fans to make your point. There's only a few of them who have been anywhere close to accurate in any Devils threads.

 

[viper0220]

Yeah I think Jersey got ripped off. Markstrom isn't very good

If the Devils get one more top 4 defenseman, who can play defense and they commit to defense as a team(which they need to, they allowed 283 goals against), than Markstrom can probably deliver a .914 Save%,, which means the Devils are likely a playoff team.

 

[Forge]

If the Devils get one more top 4 defenseman, who can play defense and they commit to defense as a team(which they need to, they allowed 283 goals against), than Markstrom can probably deliver a .914 Save%,, which means the Devils are likely a playoff team.

When the athletic was doing their review of the trade on their podcast, they said if the devils had .905 goaltending the last 5 years, they'd have made the playoffs likely 3 times. They made it once.

He likely won't even have to be .914 good

 

[TBF1972]

I'm in agreement with you on Bahl. He's a 3rd pairing/PK guy. I don't assign 1st round pick value to him. Somewhere late 2nd/early 3rd round value. That said, don't try to use the opinion of Devils fans to make your point. There's only a few of them who have been anywhere close to accurate in any Devils threads.

opinionated

conceited

 

[HugeInTheShire]

I like Bahl, but I'm not one of these people who think we got a top 4 defenseman here. We got a 6 who can become a 5. Now he's the right type of bottom pairing guy for our organization I think. But he's still a bottom pairing guy.

Yep he’s a bottom pair guy for sure, maybe he’ll improve but I don’t think so. He likely tops out as a bottom pair guy that excels of the PK

 

[Double Dion]

Yep he’s a bottom pair guy for sure, maybe he’ll improve but I don’t think so. He likely tops out as a bottom pair guy that excels of the PK

Agreed.

 

[Double Dion]

opinionated

conceited

No, factual. Look at the post history of this thread. Look at the post history on Sharangovich. There are some good posters, but the history of the majority of Devils fans in these threads is just false. So why would I put stock in what the majority think of a player? I put stock in what the guys who have been correct on other topics have to say. I'm opinionated, but never conceited. Truth is the path I walk. I was wrong about Monahan bringing back a 1st. I don't deflect or dodge or blame someone else. I was wrong about Shinkaruk being a top 6 wing in 2014. I was correct about everything I've written about the Devils. Including calling Nemec being the better prospect over Hughes a year ago when not a single Devils fan agreed with me then.

 

[TrufleShufle]

I didn't forget anything. You guys repeated this sooo many times. "Markstrom 100% doesn't get a 1st"

No, the discussion was always 10th overall. That's what people repeated sooo many times Fitz wouldn't give up for him, and he didn't.

Why does everyone change what was said or actually traded to try so hard to be right. You are wrong just as much as Double dion, just move on.

 

[Double Dion]

No, the discussion was always 10th overall. That's what people repeated sooo many times Fitz wouldn't give up for him, and he didn't.

Why does everyone change what was said or actually traded to try so hard to be right. You are wrong just as much as Double dion, just move on.

I don't know why you'd say I'm wrong when I called the 2025 1st and prospect. The trade was exactly what I guaranteed. I also don't know why you'd say that 10th OA was the only discussion point. There were lots of returns mentioned. Varying from absurd like Nemec or Mercer, to a robbery like 10 OA to reasonable like me calling the exact trade and you gaslighting me about it. It's ok to be wrong. Learn from it and be better next time. Lies and subterfuge are never a good look.

When the athletic was doing their review of the trade on their podcast, they said if the devils had .905 goaltending the last 5 years, they'd have made the playoffs likely 3 times. They made it once.

He likely won't even have to be .914 good

Agreed. Save percentage is important, but it's not the best metric for goalies. Playing in front of the Vegas D is very different than playing in front of San Jose D. Fitzgerald finally made a good bet in net. It's no guaranteed to work, because goalies are tough to predict. You can however give yourself a 75% chance or a 25% chance. Before Fitzgerald gave his team a 25% chance. Now he gave his team a 75% chance.