Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[TrufleShufle]

I don't know why you'd say I'm wrong when I called the 2025 1st and prospect. The trade was exactly what I guaranteed. I also don't know why you'd say that 10th OA was the only discussion point. There were lots of returns mentioned. Varying from absurd like Nemec or Mercer, to a robbery like 10 OA to reasonable like me calling the exact trade and you gaslighting me about it. It's ok to be wrong. Learn from it and be better next time. Lies and subterfuge are never a good look.

The 10th overall is the only thing Devils fans all agreed wouldn't happen, not a first in general as was being discussed when i just responded.

You were wrong about it being a prospect and the definition of gaslighting. The schtick is getting cringier every day, btw.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

No, the discussion was always 10th overall. That's what people repeated sooo many times Fitz wouldn't give up for him, and he didn't.

Why does everyone change what was said or actually traded to try so hard to be right. You are wrong just as much as Double dion, just move on.

It's true that most (myself forsure) had hoped for the 10th. Whatever had to be done.
But many NJ fans had stated over & over - Markstrom 100% will not get a 1st, nothing else just that.
It happened, we laughed, and I have moved on. It's just for whatever reason you guys (after ragging on Markstrom for months) are now backpeddling on what you said he was worth.
And so we laugh again!

 

[Double Dion]

The 10th overall is the only thing Devils fans all agreed wouldn't happen, not a first in general as was being discussed when i just responded.

You were wrong about it being a prospect and the definition of gaslighting. The schtick is getting cringier every day, btw.

Definition of GASLIGHTING

psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Again. You aren't aware of what the word means. Just as you were unaware of what the word prospect means.

1. "Psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator.

2. "The act or practice of misleading for one's one advantage." Like saying something that's the opposite of true and then pretending like someone else is lying.

I'm not using any schtick. The post you're denying happened is on page 1 of this thread. It's been quoted multiple times throughout the thread. Your deceit doesn't change my reality. I can't be gaslighted because I have integrity and the strength of character to see things through.

 

[dgibb10]

It's true that most (myself forsure) had hoped for the 10th. Whatever had to be done.
But many NJ fans had stated over & over - Markstrom 100% will not get a 1st, nothing else just that.
It happened, we laughed, and I have moved on. It's just for whatever reason you guys (after ragging on Markstrom for months) are now backpeddling on what you said he was worth.
And so we laugh again!

Markstrom UNRETAINED.

No idea why you keep leaving out that part.

You ate nearly 4 million dollars of his contract.

you forgot e very important word: unretained.

the value of markstrom at 6m or 5m or 4m or 3m is vastly different. for the buyer the final cap hit defines the value, the seller also considers the term, as you can only retain on three contracts at a time.

the 25 1st round pick today can be anything from 11th to 32nd and the two gm's might have vastly different expectations for it. also bahl's value is in the eye of the beholder. from the devils pov the price was ok but definitely not cheap.

based on the trade we can still debate about the value of an unretained markstrom and you can make arguments for a late first or early second. 10th overall was never in play. so when you return from your victory lap try to have another objective look at it.

Nope, time to vastly overrate kevin bahls value (they would have laughed if you tried to include him as a core piece last week), and pretend the 3.75 mill they ate doesn't exist

 

[TrufleShufle]

Definition of GASLIGHTING

psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Again. You aren't aware of what the word means. Just as you were unaware of what the word prospect means.

1. "Psychological manipulation of a person usually over an extended period of time that causes the victim to question the validity of their own thoughts, perception of reality, or memories and typically leads to confusion, loss of confidence and self-esteem, uncertainty of one's emotional or mental stability, and a dependency on the perpetrator.

2. "The act or practice of misleading for one's one advantage." Like saying something that's the opposite of true and then pretending like someone else is lying.

I'm not using any schtick. The post you're denying happened is on page 1 of this thread. It's been quoted multiple times throughout the thread. Your deceit doesn't change my reality. I can't be gaslighted because I have integrity and the strength of character to see things through.

Your definition, by admission, is different than most everyone else. Scouts who list prospects and almost everyone who has responded to you. If your basing being right solely on your definition in your own mind and then tell everyone else who has the real definition of the word that they are wrong, that's insane. I'm not tricking you into it.

At this point, I'm wondering who you are even trying to convince.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Markstrom UNRETAINED.

No idea why you keep leaving out that part.

You ate nearly 4 million dollars of his contract.


Nope, time to vastly overrate kevin bahls value (they would have laughed if you tried to include him as a core piece last week), and pretend the 3.75 mill they ate doesn't exist

Go look at my posts - I pretty much everytime said retained, and even often included the 28th.
Still you guys said "Markstrom 100% will not get a 1st"

I'm surprised you are doing OK with how crappy you must have felt now that he's a Devil.

 

[Double Dion]

Your definition, by admission, is different than most everyone else. Scouts who list prospects and almost everyone who has responded to you. If your basing being right solely on your definition in your own mind and then tell everyone else who has the real definition of the word that they are wrong, that's insane. I'm not tricking you into it.

At this point, I'm wondering who you are even trying to convince.

Definitions are defined by definition. You don't get to decide what words mean. Prospect has a defined meaning. I stand for truth, not lies designed to protect someone's pride when they were wrong. Again, it's ok to be wrong. Learn from it, don't try to obfuscate and shelter your pride. That's how evil profligates. Lies are never beneficial to either yourself or anyone around you.

 

[JimEIV]

I think a 1st was an a huge overpayment from New Jersey retention or not, protected or not...still way too frivolous for a player that turns 35 years old in January.

You might be able to convince me otherwise if New Jersey was to one or two pieces from competing for a Cup...but for a team that basically had the same record as Calgary and Seattle...tossing one of those teams your 1st rounder in 2025 is just drunk spending from my perspective.

 

[Double Dion]

I think a 1st was an a huge overpayment from New Jersey retention or not, protected or not...still way too frivolous for a player that turns 35 years old in January.

You might be able to convince me otherwise if New Jersey was to one or two pieces from competing for a Cup...but for a team that basically had the same record as Calgary and Seattle...tossing one of those teams your 1st rounder in 2025 is just drunk spending from my perspective.

Heck he turns 40 in 2031! He's 34, not 35. Be accurate. Why do people insist on deception in an attempt to prove their point? If you think he isn't worth a 1st you're pretty clearly wrong. The market had multiple teams offering a 1st+. Who exactly are you pining for in the late 1st round of 2025? Is he going to contribute to your team that's entering a contention window in any meaningful way before 2030? It's a bad argument, but at least trade honestly.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Kudos to @Forge , you were always a reasonable poster - hope he does well for you (but not too well )

lol the bar around here is so low

 

[Double Dion]

lol the bar around here is so low

Forge is a good poster. He tells the truth and his views are pretty accurate. An honest and accurate opinion brings good to the world. So many people now have no integrity, respect for themselves or those they are posting with.

 

[JimEIV]

Heck he turns 40 in 2031! He's 34, not 35. Be accurate. Why do people insist on deception in an attempt to prove their point? If you think he isn't worth a 1st you're pretty clearly wrong. The market had multiple teams offering a 1st+. Who exactly are you pining for in the late 1st round of 2025? Is he going to contribute to your team that's entering a contention window in any meaningful way before 2030? It's a bad argument, but at least trade honestly.

First, I'm pretty sure what I wrote was precisely "for a player that turns 35 in January"

Second you're assuming that pick is going to be a "late" 1st rounder...I bet 100% of the hockey world would've bet that NJ's 1st rounder this year was going to be a late pick in the summer of 2023. But here we are with the 10 OA

Third...if Calgary was getting multiple offers of 1st round picks ...why did they settle for a 25 protected, with retention and a potential low first rounder at that...

New Jersey should've walked away...and let Calgary take one of those other "multiple" offers...but I suspect that's all BS and Markstrom's No movement made it all the more difficult to really do anything but hope Fitzgerald was desperate enough....and he was.

 

[Double Dion]

First, I'm pretty sure what I wrote was precisely "for a player that turns 35 in January"

Second you're assuming that pick is going to be a "late" 1st rounder...I bet 100% of the hockey world would've bet that NJ's 1st rounder this year was going to be a late pick in the summer of 2023. But here we are with the 10OA

Third...if Calgary was getting multiple offers of 1st round picks ...why did they settle for a 25 protected, with retention and a potential low first rounder at that...

New Jersey should've walked away...and let Calgary take one of those other "multiple" offers...but I suspect that's all BS and Markstrom's No movement made all the more difficult to really do anything put hope Fitzgerald was desperate enough....and he was.

It's been reported by Friedman that the Leafs offered the Flames their 1st round pick and a prospect. It's been reported by Seravalli, Friedman, Steinberg and Garrioch that Ottawa also offered a package containing a 1st round pick and a player.

I likely did overreact to your statement on age. It wasn't exactly dishonest. More of an intent to artificially devalue someone. It's still bad.

Now, would Markstrom have waived for the other 2 teams? I don't know. My guess is no for Ottawa and yes for Toronto. That's a pure guess though, as far as I know there have been no report either way.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

First, I'm pretty sure what I wrote was precisely "for a player that turns 35 in January"

Second you're assuming that pick is going to be a "late" 1st rounder...I bet 100% of the hockey world would've bet that NJ's 1st rounder this year was going to be a late pick in the summer of 2023. But here we are with the 10 OA

Third...if Calgary was getting multiple offers of 1st round picks ...why did they settle for a 25 protected, with retention and a potential low first rounder at that...

New Jersey should've walked away...and let Calgary take one of those other "multiple" offers...but I suspect that's all BS and Markstrom's No movement made it all the more difficult to really do anything put hope Fitzgerald was desperate enough....and he was.

I do think Tor was there, and I had said I preferred to deal with them as I was fed up with Devils fans.
But I guess Tor just couldn't deal that 1st, and whatever else they tried just wasn't interesting

 

[JimEIV]

It's been reported by Friedman that the Leafs offered the Flames their 1st round pick and a prospect. It's been reported by Seravalli, Friedman, Steinberg and Garrioch that Ottawa also offered a package containing a 1st round pick and a player.

I likely did overreact to your statement on age. It wasn't exactly dishonest. More of an intent to artificially devalue someone. It's still bad.

Now, would Markstrom have waived for the other 2 teams? I don't know. My guess is no for Ottawa and yes for Toronto. That's a pure guess though, as far as I know there have been no report either way.

"It's been reported ". That's rich...

So Calgary didn't want Ottawa's 1st which is more likely to be better than ours? Calgary was doing New Jersey a favor you're saying?

Come on, look at the evidence...you weren't getting anything from Ottawa cause Markstrom was never going there.

 

[FLAMESFAN]

"It's been reported ". That's rich...

So Calgary didn't want Ottawa's 1st which is more likely to be better than ours? Calgary was doing New Jersey a favor you're saying?

Come on, look at the evidence...you weren't getting anything from Ottawa cause Markstrom was never going there.

I think the general assumption is that Marky wouldn't have waived for Ott

 

[Double Dion]

"It's been reported ". That's rich...

So Calgary didn't want Ottawa's 1st which is more likely to be better than ours? Calgary was doing New Jersey a favor you're saying?

Come on, look at the evidence...you weren't getting anything from Ottawa cause Markstrom was never going there.

Again, you're twisting things. I acknowledge in my post that I find it unlikely he'd waive for Ottawa and likely he would for Toronto. I don't KNOW that. It just makes sense to me since he wants to play for a contender and he flies often to Sweden (direct flights from NY area and Toronto, not Ottawa).

I also never said it was Ottawa's 1st round pick. I find that unlikely. My guess (this is a guess) is it was something like Joseph and the Boston pick that Ottawa has.

You made a comment on him not being worth that. I'm pointing out that he is worth that. It's fine for you to think the wrong thing. Lots of people do, even I do sometimes. I'm just pointing out that it's been reported you're wrong. We know he waived for NJ. I find it likely he would for Toronto and unlikely he would for Ottawa.

 

[dgibb10]

Go look at my posts - I pretty much everytime said retained, and even often included the 28th.
Still you guys said "Markstrom 100% will not get a 1st"

I'm surprised you are doing OK with how crappy you must have felt now that he's a Devil.

Ahh of course, there it is. You wanted 10th overall. And were told that a 35 year old goalie was not worth a top 10 pick.

And are now trying to pretend the 2025 1st is the same thing

 

[JimEIV]

Again, you're twisting things. I acknowledge in my post that I find it unlikely he'd waive for Ottawa and likely he would for Toronto. I don't KNOW that. It just makes sense to me since he wants to play for a contender and he flies often to Sweden (direct flights from NY area and Toronto, not Ottawa).

I also never said it was Ottawa's 1st round pick. I find that unlikely. My guess (this is a guess) is it was something like Joseph and the Boston pick that Ottawa has.

You made a comment on him not being worth that. I'm pointing out that he is worth that. It's fine for you to think the wrong thing. Lots of people do, even I do sometimes. I'm just pointing out that it's been reported you're wrong. We know he waived for NJ. I find it likely he would for Toronto and unlikely he would for Ottawa.

And if I knew I was bidding against Toronto, from a New Jersey perspective, I would have only offered you a second.

A. The picks would be Close enough
And
B. Toronto probably needs a lot more retention than we do making our offer much more attractive.

Fitzgerald got bent over

 

[FLAMESFAN]

Ahh of course, there it is. You wanted 10th overall.

No shit Sherlock

I wanted 10th. We offered all kinds of possibilities.
But all I read over & over was that "Markstrom 100% is not getting a 1st"

I'll be waiting for your many threads ragging Markstrom on the mains....

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Ahh of course, there it is. You wanted 10th overall. And were told that a 35 year old goalie was not worth a top 10 pick.

And are now trying to pretend the 2025 1st is the same thing

They're all playing the same game, and it's outright comical lol.

Definitions are defined by definition. You don't get to decide what words mean. Prospect has a defined meaning. I stand for truth, not lies designed to protect someone's pride when they were wrong. Again, it's ok to be wrong. Learn from it, don't try to obfuscate and shelter your pride. That's how evil profligates. Lies are never beneficial to either yourself or anyone around you.

This is straight up ChatGPT.

 

[Forge]

Again, you're twisting things. I acknowledge in my post that I find it unlikely he'd waive for Ottawa and likely he would for Toronto. I don't KNOW that. It just makes sense to me since he wants to play for a contender and he flies often to Sweden (direct flights from NY area and Toronto, not Ottawa).

I also never said it was Ottawa's 1st round pick. I find that unlikely. My guess (this is a guess) is it was something like Joseph and the Boston pick that Ottawa has.

You made a comment on him not being worth that. I'm pointing out that he is worth that. It's fine for you to think the wrong thing. Lots of people do, even I do sometimes. I'm just pointing out that it's been reported you're wrong. We know he waived for NJ. I find it likely he would for Toronto and unlikely he would for Ottawa.

Trust me when I say you're better off just letting this one go lol

 

[dgibb10]

No shit Sherlock

I wanted 10th. We offered all kinds of possibilities.
But all I read over & over was that "Markstrom 100% is not getting a 1st"

I'll be waiting for your many threads ragging Markstrom on the mains....

You likely read one of 2 things:

Markstrom unretained is not getting a 1st.
Markstrom is not getting 10th overall.

And are now trying to pretend NJD fans weren't willing to put the 2025 1st on the table for Markstrom with retention

 

[FLAMESFAN]

You likely read one of 2 things:

Markstrom unretained is not getting a 1st.
Markstrom is not getting 10th overall.

And are now trying to pretend NJD fans weren't willing to put the 2025 1st on the table for Markstrom with retention

Holy, this is difficult for some of you

I am not mistaken. It was (many times!) "Markstrom is 100% not getting a 1st"

No mention of other things added in like retention, or 28th, or NJ 2025

Just "Markstrom is 100% not getting a 1st"

Very few were willing to put 2025 1st on the table with retention. Most wanted nothing to do with him. You yourself said he was your backup to your backup plan, lol

 

[dgibb10]

Holy, this is difficult for some of you

I am not mistaken. It was (many times!) "Markstrom is 100% not getting a 1st"

No mention of other things added in like retention, or 28th, or NJ 2025

Just "Markstrom is 100% not getting a 1st"

Very few were willing to put 2025 1st on the table with retention. Most wanted nothing to do with him. You yourself said he was your backup to your backup plan, lol

Oh I 100% preferred Ullmark.

I'd love to see these quotes, because I am 95% certain you are hiding context (like it referring to an unretained markstrom, or 10th overall)