Confirmed Trade: [NJD/CGY] Jacob Markstrom for Kevin Bahl, 2025 1st round pick (top 10 protected); Flames retain 31.25%

[HBK27]

Bahl is not a prospect and you claimed Casey or Holtz LOL

Seriously. A player that turns 24 in one week and has 148 NHL games under his belt is not a prospect.

 

[tmg]

The value of this trade totally depends on where NJ finishes next season. Anywhere from 20-32 I’d say it’s a pretty even trade. If the Devils miss the playoffs again and the puck is 11-20 I’d say Calgary won.

I mean that’s self fulfilling. It’s not just “how high the pick given away ends up being” so much as “how well does Markstrom actually play and contribute to the team’s success”

So this is largely like any trade. “If the acquired player plays well, the trade was good. If the acquired player plays poorly, the trade was bad”. This just has the double-down effect of the acquired player’s performance also being a major factor in the resulting placement of the pick. A late pick means he played well. An early pick means he didn’t.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

The Devils don’t need Markstrom to be “elite” and the value they gave up for him reflects that. Even if Markstrom puts up a carbon copy of his Calgary form last season on the Devils, they’re sniffing the playoffs even with all their injuries.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Devils win this trade in the short term. You won't find a better goalie in the league than Markstrom at $4M. They are now set in net for the next few years with him and Allen as backup.

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I mean that’s self fulfilling. It’s not just “how high the pick given away ends up being” so much as “how well does Markstrom actually play and contribute to the team’s success”

So this is largely like any trade. “If the acquired player plays well, the trade was good. If the acquired player plays poorly, the trade was bad”. This just has the double-down effect of the acquired player’s performance also being a major factor in the resulting placement of the pick. A late pick means he played well. An early pick means he didn’t.

I know he’s a goalie but I can’t put that much blame for the team losing on one player. Even if he doesn’t work out in NJ it would t be solely his fault. The value of the pick is on Fitzgerald. Imo.

 

[Double Dion]

Bahl is not a prospect and you claimed Casey or Holtz LOL

You clearly didn't read the posts. I said a 1st and prospect was the guarantee.

 

[Nanuuk]

Question to Calgary fans - Has Markström declined or why has his numbers gone down?

Haven't seen him play in ages.
Do you think he can bounce back?

Markstrom has not declined. For the majority of the season he was a top flight goalie, particularly with high danger chances.

His number decline in the last 20 games 10-15 games or so after coming off of an injury and then when the core of the Flames d-corps were traded. The new pairings were out of sync to a great degree and two of the newbies (Miromanov, Pachal) were rookies.

He ended the year with a .905 Sv% and 2.78 GAA.

League average Sv% was .903. League average GAA was 2.91.

The Devils did just fine of this deal. It remains to be seen how well the Flames did. Bahl is a key piece, of course, and I have no doubt he will grow into a fan favourite. It remains to be seen how the 2025 draft pick will turn out.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Yost is legit but not usually the guy breaking these kind of moves. Really curious to see how this deal ends up looking.

New Jersey is going to look dangerous with Keefe as the coach and Markstrom in net.

Keefe? are you kidding
NJ will find out how good Keefe is just like the Pens discovered Dubas

 

[Haatley]

Seriously. A player that turns 24 in one week and has 148 NHL games under his belt is not a prospect.

But a player the same age who has not made the NHL yet is?

 

[TrufleShufle]

You clearly didn't read the posts. I said a 1st and prospect was the guarantee.

So again you agree you were wrong. No prospect was involved.

 

[HBK27]

But a player the same age who has not made the NHL yet is?

Yes.

Different publications/experts/scouts/whatever have their own definitions of what a prospect is so it varies, but players that have nearly 2 full seasons of NHL experience under their belt are almost never still considered prospects.

Jack Hughes is younger than Bahl - should he still be considered a prospect?

 

[TrufleShufle]

But a player the same age who has not made the NHL yet is?

Exactly.

pros·pect
/ˈpräˌspek(t)/
noun

1. 1.
   the possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring
   
   
   

 

[DJJones]

Physically Markstrom seems fine, wouldn't say he's declined.

Mentally he's just all over the place. When he's locked in, he's still a wall. But it's very streaky.

 

[Jared Dunn]

What’s better is neither of those guys. And save the 1st. Find another goalie. Improve team D to support said Goalie.

Who do you suggest? Acting as if the goalie tree in the backyard is ripe for picking, you just dismissed 2 of maybe 3 remaining names available

 

[DJJones]

Who gives a shit about the exact definition of a prospect haha. Every player progresses differently, this isn't Hanifin that's pretty much a veteran at 23.

Guy has one full season where he got overplayed due to injuries. Plus he's huge, plus he's a defensemen. He should have two more years of physical development pretty easy. Then another couple for fixing the smaller mental mistakes.

Hell Hanifin improved after he was 23 too.

 

[Jared Dunn]

That's good. I'm a fan of the player. Was just suggesting in my initial post that his defensive acumen will be tested more often without a shutdown pairing to throw out there against other team's top lines. Probably a lot will depend on how Dougie comes back. The LD UFA market is.. well kind of old. Maybe they go after Forbort or Edmundson on a short term deal.

He would be great for what they need but feels like he's guaranteed to miss at least 20 games a year now. I think Zadorov will be too expensive but I'd say Dillon should be their top target

 

[TrufleShufle]

Who gives a shit about the exact definition of a prospect haha. Every player progresses differently, this isn't Hanifin that's pretty much a veteran at 23.

Guy has one full season where he got overplayed due to injuries. Plus he's huge, plus he's a defensemen. He should have two more years of physical development pretty easy. Then another couple for fixing the smaller mental mistakes.

Hell Hanifin improved after he was 23 too.

The defining a prospect was just to let it sink in that the one posters guarantee was wrong. Nothing against Bahl. I liked him, and am very interested to see how he progresses in the coming years. The definition talk was not trying down talk Bahl in anyway.

 

[DJJones]

The defining a prospect was just to let it sink in that the one posters guarantee was wrong. Nothing against Bahl. I liked him, and am very interested to see how he progresses in the coming years. The definition talk was not trying down talk Bahl in anyway.

Going after Bahl is pretty much Conroy's whole strategy. Guys looking desperately for depth defenseman that are undervalued that they think have potential. If miromanov and Bahl can become legitimate #4/#5s, the guys a genius.

Teams protect "prospects" too much and overvalue them. He's watched Calgary lose 3 or 4 depth defenders way to early in the last few years for nothing. He's banking on other teams making the same mistake

 

[My3Sons]

Why would Calgary potentially punt on next season? They have to hope Wolf is ready to play as a starter now. This is surprising for a Canadian team. Does this signal a rebuild?

 

[Double Dion]

So again you agree you were wrong. No prospect was involved.

Just because you were wrong about the return is no reason to be wrong twice. You have a flawed definition of prospect. Here is how Merriam Webster defines it. If you're from across the pond I can post the Oxford definition for you:

a
: the act of looking forward : ANTICIPATION
b
: a mental picture of something to come : VISION
c
: something that is awaited or expected : POSSIBILITY
d prospects plural
(1)
: financial expectations
(2)
: CHANCES

If you need some help interpreting that it means a player who isn't finished their development. As an example, Danil Miromanov who will be 27 is still a prospect. Akira Schmid is still a prospect and is older than Bahl. Sam Bennett when we traded him to Florida at almost 25 years old was still a prospect.

You were already wrong once, no need to be wrong twice just to try to undo the past. Learn from your mistakes and move forward. If you do, tomorrow you'll be better than you are today.

Why would Calgary potentially punt on next season? They have to hope Wolf is ready to play as a starter now. This is surprising for a Canadian team. Does this signal a rebuild?

Because if our pick isn't in the top 10 it goes to Montreal. I really don't want to be sending out pick 11-15 for one year of dumping Monahan. That would be the worst case scenario.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Just because you were wrong about the return is no reason to be wrong twice. You have a flawed definition of prospect. Here is how Merriam Webster defines it. If you're from across the pond I can post the Oxford definition for you:

a
: the act of looking forward : ANTICIPATION
b
: a mental picture of something to come : VISION
c
: something that is awaited or expected : POSSIBILITY
d prospects plural
(1)
: financial expectations
(2)
: CHANCES

If you need some help interpreting that it means a player who isn't finished their development. As an example, Danil Miromanov who will be 27 is still a prospect. Akira Schmid is still a prospect and is older than Bahl. Sam Bennett when we traded him to Florida at almost 25 years old was still a prospect.

You were already wrong once, no need to be wrong twice just to try to undo the past. Learn from your mistakes and move forward. If you do, tomorrow you'll be better than you are today.


Because if our pick isn't in the top 10 it goes to Montreal. I really don't want to be sending out pick 11-15 for one year of dumping Monahan. That would be the worst case scenario.

Ah cool, so you are changing what it means to be a prospect to avoid admitting you are wrong. Sad, really, but I get it.

 

[Double Dion]

The defining a prospect was just to let it sink in that the one posters guarantee was wrong. Nothing against Bahl. I liked him, and am very interested to see how he progresses in the coming years. The definition talk was not trying down talk Bahl in anyway.

You had the wrong definition. It's ok, when I was a kid I thought Santa's sleigh was made of soap. Then I learned that the line is "one horse open sleigh," not "one horse soapen sleigh" as I originally thought. 6 months later I learned that an obese man could not possibly fit down our chimney. Later I learned that reindeer cannot fly. Then I developed spatial awareness and realized the whole thing was a hoax because all those gifts couldn't possibly fit in the back of that sleigh.

You'll learn too.

Ah cool, so you are changing what it means to be a prospect to avoid admitting you are wrong. Sad, really, but I get it.

No, you just had the wrong definition. The meaning of the word has not shifted in our lexicon.

 

[TrufleShufle]

You had the wrong definition. It's ok, when I was a kid I thought Santa's sleigh was made of soap. Then I learned that the line is "one horse open sleigh," not "one horse soapen sleigh" as I originally thought. 6 months later I learned that an obese man could not possibly fit down our chimney. Later I learned that reindeer cannot fly. Then I developed spatial awareness and realized the whole thing was a hoax because all those gifts couldn't possibly fit in the back of that sleigh.

You'll learn too.


No, you just had the wrong definition. The meaning of the word has not shifted in our lexicon.

So what you are telling me with that story, is you are often still learning and this is just another step in the process. Alright, point taken, I won't push you, I'll let you learn at your own pace.

 

[Double Dion]

Exactly.

pros·pect
/ˈpräˌspek(t)/
noun

1. 1.
   the possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring

You need to move down and read #2. That's the one that applies in this situation. Although even #1 shows you are off.

So what you are telling me with that story, is you are often still learning and this is just another step in the process. Alright, point taken, I won't push you, I'll let you learn at your own pace.

Of course I'm still learning. It's an ongoing process. It's why I could accurately predict this trade return. I learned from Conroy's previous trades. When his price was met he moved the player early. Knowing his price was stated to be a 1st and prospect made it pretty easy to predict the return. If you also learn, next time you'll be able to do it too. Brian Burke uses other team's to drive up the price. It's a different philosophy with different benefits and shortcomings. It also makes it harder to predict the return.

 

[HBK27]

Look, I realize this is just @Double Dion schtick - acting obnoxious and pretending that Bahl is still a prospect to gloat about supposedly being right or something, but nobody still considered him a prospect...which is fine as it's not any worse for Calgary to have gotten a graduated NHL player instead.

When Pronman did his NJ Devils prospects ranking a year ago (Aug '23) he had already listed Bahl as a graduate.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4794288/2023/08/24/new-jersey-devils-nhl-prospect-pipeline-rankings/

Same for Wheeler's ranking in February of this year.

2024 NHL prospect pool rankings: No. 22 New Jersey Devils

After back-to-back years as a top-five ranked pool, the Devils' system is starting to look a lot different.

www.nytimes.com

Anyway, I realize this won't make a rats ass difference and you will continue to act like you need to act for whatever strange satisfaction you get out of it. You could've just said that it worked out better that Calgary got a young NHL player instead of a prospect, but if you want to pretend that he's still a prospect when nobody in the industry would label him that, then have at it.