Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[Rschmitz]

the narrative was that Gretzky carried the Kings to the playoffs in his first year, but Lemieux also took the pens to the playoffs for the first time as well.

Basically Gretzky winning in his 1st year on the Kings was what the media and fans alike wanted

So in other words it made for a better story, and probably sold more papers. Honestly that really takes the luster out of the award, after I read that I went and read some more about it, Yzerman apparently won the Lindsay too instead of either Gretzyky or Lemieux, seems like the voting was broken back then.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

So in other words it made for a better story, and probably sold more papers. Honestly that really takes the luster out of the award, after I read that I went and read some more about it, Yzerman apparently won the Lindsay too instead of either Gretzyky or Lemieux, seems like the voting was broken back then.

yeah, well Lemieux was actually not popular with the media nor his peers early on. First off he was French and didn't like speaking English with the media as much at that time, he was also more standoffish and had got the top contract at a young age which pissed a lot of players off who thought he hadn't "earned it yet" (that was the mindset back then). While Stevie Y and Gretzky were both good ol Anglophone-Canadian boys who were media darlings.

Its funny to look at now but there was a real narrative that Lemieux was an entitled floater back then. I mean, Gretzky dealt with it to some extent as well early in his career but by 89 he was cemented as the great one and a lot of people didn't like the threat of Lemieux possibly eclipsing their golden boy so soon.

 

[Dingo]

So in other words it made for a better story, and probably sold more papers. Honestly that really takes the luster out of the award, after I read that I went and read some more about it, Yzerman apparently won the Lindsay too instead of either Gretzyky or Lemieux, seems like the voting was broken back then.

i dont think anyone should count Hart, or Hart voting, towards a players' legacy. It is a storyline-based award, with media hype stitched into it. And the voters can play what ever angle of, 'most important to team' vs 'best player' they want, which allows them to simply pick whoever they personally like the most without breaking the rules.

I'm ok with the award, but not that it carries so much historical value retrospectively. Its more important, but not much, and completely as silly of an award as the Lady Byng, imo.

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

i dont think anyone should count Hart, or Hart voting, towards a players' legacy. It is a storyline-based award, with media hype stitched into it. And the voters can play what ever angle of, 'most important to team' vs 'best player' they want, which allows them to simply pick whoever they personally like the most without breaking the rules.

I'm ok with the award, but not that it carries so much historical value retrospectively. Its more important, but not much, and completely as silly of an award as the Lady Byng, imo.

Its definitely had some bias attached to it - but its still about 1000X more prestigious than the Lady Byng.

Coming top 3 in a hart voting should carry about 100X more "legacy points" than winning 5 Lady Byngs should. No matter how badly the voters mess it up, I can't think of any instance where the Hart winner was not at least a top 3, maybe at the very worst top 5 player in the world.

You can win the Lady Byng without being a star

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Hellebuyck is another one worth mentioning. It's between Hellebuyck and Kucherov, but I say Hellebuyck.

I mean Kucherov is sick, and he's got twice the points of his next teammate, but Hellebuyck is the whole reason the Jets are in the playoffs.

Edit: LMFAO I mixed up the Art Ross with the Hart Trophy. This it's because they both have art in the name.

 

[Jixer19]

Goalies can win the art ross now? Guess it is possible, just would be something else

Anyways, Kuch going crazy with back to back 4 point games is incredible

 

[Stealth1616]

Hellebuyck is another one worth mentioning. It's between Hellebuyck and Kucherov, but I say Hellebuyck.

I mean Kucherov is sick, and he's got twice the points of his next teammate, but Hellebuyck is the whole reason the Jets are in the playoffs.

Hellebuyck better start racking up the points sometime soon here then…

 

[Coffey]

Kucherov really doesn’t want Mack to win a Ross or Hart

 

[ozzie]

Kuch keeps pulling away when needed and really making the Ross and the Hart race interesting. Constantly feels like he is underated, which is incredible to me. Best season since 1992/93? Maybe.

 

[HFpapi]

McDavid can't catch a break lol. 4 assist night and Kucherov goes and does the same. Makes up no ground.

If McDavid is to win, got to think it's something like McDavid 31 points in his final 15 games, Kucherov "only" 20 points in his last 13. Both seem plausible but with 16 points in his last 5 games, Kucherov really wants that 2nd scoring title.

Have to start wondering where Kuch belongs in the all-time conversation because it's up there. He's in Malkin territory.

 

[Calderon]

Kuch keeps pulling away when needed and really making the Ross and the Hart race interesting. Constantly feels like he is underated, which is incredible to me. Best season since 1992/93? Maybe.

Why would Kucherov's season be any better or even as good as McDavid's 153? McDavid had way more goals and a likely a much bigger separation from peers.

 

[bobholly39]

What a season. Here are where the players stand as of today:

Kucherov - 122 points. On pace for 49 goals and 145 points in 81 games. 13 games to go
MacKinnon - 117 points. On pace for 50 goals and 139 points in 82 games. 13 games to go
McDavid - 112 points. On pace for 106 assists and 138 points in 8 games. 15 games to go
Pastrnak/Panarin - both on pace for 114 points.
Matthews on pace for 69 goals.

Kucherov on an insane streak of 15 points in last 4 games. Both he and McDavid have a very easy schedule down the stretch with a lot of easy opponents, compared to MacKinnon who faces less bottom feeders.

 

[bobholly39]

Why would Kucherov's season be any better or even as good as McDavid's 153? McDavid had way more goals and a likely a much bigger separation from peers.

Bigger separation from what peers? From teammates? Kucherov has a bigger separation than McDavid from his teammates (he doesn't have a Draisaitl scoring 128 points...). From others in scoring race? I don't really see how that's relevant, since all of Kuch/McD/Mack are outliers this season. Other than outliers, separation from others in scoring race is pretty comparable past 2 seasons.

It's true McDavid had more goals. And until proven otherwise, Kucherov won't touch McDavid's 153 points. I just disagree on the rest.

One thing worth pointing out is scoring is actually down from last year. So 153 points last season vs....slightly less this year may end up being a very close comparison.

According to hockey-reference's adjusted points - they have McDavid at 146 last year, and Kuch on pace for 139 this year, and this was before last night's 4 point game for Kucherov. I assume when they update it today, it'll be around ~142-143 for Kucherov adjusted pace. Hockey-reference's way of adjusting numbers is hardly flawless, but it's a good point of reference, and shows the two seasons are very close.

Bottom line is McDavid last season is still a better season than Kucherov this season - but it's no longer a really big gap, and Kucherov isn't done yet, so who knows if he's able to bridge the gap even more.

 

[Raym11]

I dunno what else Kucherov has to do to stop being discredited whenever it comes to the MVP and art ross race.

He's the only guy in the league who puts up points as easy as Mack and Mcdavid, yet people were fighting to acknowledge it and talking about how he'll be 3rd by the end of the season.

All 3 are so far ahead of everyone else offensively its crazy. He will be the only one without a teammate with 100 points by the end of it however

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Bigger separation from what peers? From teammates? Kucherov has a bigger separation than McDavid from his teammates (he doesn't have a Draisaitl scoring 128 points...). From others in scoring race? I don't really see how that's relevant, since all of Kuch/McD/Mack are outliers this season. Other than outliers, separation from others in scoring race is pretty comparable past 2 seasons.

It's true McDavid had more goals. And until proven otherwise, Kucherov won't touch McDavid's 153 points. I just disagree on the rest.

One thing worth pointing out is scoring is actually down from last year. So 153 points last season vs....slightly less this year may end up being a very close comparison.

According to hockey-reference's adjusted points - they have McDavid at 146 last year, and Kuch on pace for 139 this year, and this was before last night's 4 point game for Kucherov. I assume when they update it today, it'll be around ~142-143 for Kucherov adjusted pace. Hockey-reference's way of adjusting numbers is hardly flawless, but it's a good point of reference, and shows the two seasons are very close.

Bottom line is McDavid last season is still a better season than Kucherov this season - but it's no longer a really big gap, and Kucherov isn't done yet, so who knows if he's able to bridge the gap even more.

McDavid fans are in shambles now due to fact Kuch is getting close to 150 points.

64 goals to 48 ? goals is certainly a difference but nevertheless.

 

[Sky04]

Kucherov leads the league in ESP and PPP.

 

[bobholly39]

I dunno what else Kucherov has to do to stop being discredited whenever it comes to the MVP and art ross race.

He's the only guy in the league who puts up points as easy as Mack and Mcdavid, yet people were fighting to acknowledge it and talking about how he'll be 3rd by the end of the season.

All 3 are so far ahead of everyone else offensively its crazy. He will be the only one without a teammate with 100 points by the end of it however

Brayden Point needs 22 points in his last 13 games to reach 100 points.
He has 21 points in his last 13 right now. I wouldn't put it past him. Tampa faces a lot of easy opponents in those remaining 13 games.

 

[Zwui21]

Kucherov is a man on a mission. Nobody is as vital to his team as Kucherov is to Tampa, and if you say otherwise you probably haven't been paying enough attention to Tampa this season.

Am I biased? Maybe, but what Kucherov has been doing this season is next level. Dragging this Tampa team (that would be a bottom feeder without him) to the playoffs while factoring in on 50% of the goals scored, mad.
After McDavid got 153 last season I didn't think anybody could even come remotely close to that number, because it's a ridiculous amount of points. And now Kuch could touch the 140ies.

We should be grateful to be witnessing the greatest and highest scoring Art Ross Trophy race in the modern era. We should be grateful to watch a player that will go down in history as one of the greatest russians to ever lace them up.

 

[DFC]

Hellebuyck is another one worth mentioning. It's between Hellebuyck and Kucherov, but I say Hellebuyck.

I mean Kucherov is sick, and he's got twice the points of his next teammate, but Hellebuyck is the whole reason the Jets are in the playoffs.

Yeah, I can see that case. Although Kucherov is also the whole reason TB is in a playoff spot. They have had to outscore their defensive woes, which are among the worst in the league, and Kucherov has been the entire offense this year. Even guys who've put up points, like Hedman and Point, have been a lot more dependent on Kucherov this year than usual. I love Point as a player, but he wouldnt be a top 50 scorer this year without Kucherov.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Update again?

Big night for Kucherov. He's now 5 points ahead of MacKinnon (same number of games), and 10 points ahead of McDavid (who has two games in hand). 15 points in his last 4 games.

Kucherov has jumped to a 67% probability of taking the Art Ross (McDavid 23%, MacKinnon 17%).

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

Kuch, like McDavid, also has a chance at 100 assists.

Loved this one last night.

 

[Video Nasty]

yeah, well Lemieux was actually not popular with the media nor his peers early on. First off he was French and didn't like speaking English with the media as much at that time, he was also more standoffish and had got the top contract at a young age which pissed a lot of players off who thought he hadn't "earned it yet" (that was the mindset back then). While Stevie Y and Gretzky were both good ol Anglophone-Canadian boys who were media darlings.

Lemieux won 2 Pearsons during his first four seasons. He won one of them while finishing 74 points behind Gretzky who set the assists and points records for the final time. He won the other the season prior to 1988-1989. He signed that contract you mentioned before the players voted him for the Pearson again.

He also won a Hart and was a finalist twice overall in those four seasons. He was on the cusp of being a finalist another time, despite missing 17 games in 1986-1987. He was the runner up in the overall season in question. In that case, I don’t know how much truth there is to your media portion as well.

Gretzky was finished winning Pearsons in 1986-1987. Lemieux had won 2 already through 1987-1988. I think the players simply wanted to recognize Yzerman for the huge leap that he had.

Gretzky winning the Hart in 1988-1989 made a lot of sense without the false or overblown motives (emotional) outlined. It was great that the Penguins made the playoffs for the first time, but their point total only went from 81 to 87. Meanwhile, the Kings had the 4th fewest points in the league the year prior to Gretzky’s arrival and finished with the 4th most (68 to 91).

I know your argument is a popular one, but it has always seemed like excuse making, and also willingly turning a blind eye when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Pre-2005, and especially pre-1994 Pearson voting needs a huge asterisk. We don't have voting records, the voting criteria was unclear, and we have several pieces of evidence that the players didn't take it seriously.

It took the labour disputes in 1994 and 2004 to readjust the players priorities. We know participation in the early years was spotty and the NHLPA didn't even save the detailed records.

Maybe last year 85% of players voted. But in the 80s it could have legitimately been closer to 30%.

 

[Fantomas]

Kuch keeps pulling away when needed and really making the Ross and the Hart race interesting. Constantly feels like he is underated, which is incredible to me. Best season since 1992/93? Maybe.

Are we in an alternate reality in which McDavid's 22-23 doesn't exist?

In the past 30 years, there have been many seasons comparable to what Kucherov's doing and some that are much better (McDavid, Mario). Adjusted for league scoring, 15-16 Patrick Kane had an outstanding season, close to what Kuch is doing now.

And this year alone, McKinnon is right there with Kucherov. So clam your tits?

 

[FDBluth]

Crazy that McDavid can't make up ground with a 4 assist game. Whoever wins the Ross this year will truly deserve it. All three have been amazing.