josra33
Registered User
- Aug 11, 2008
- 5,347
- 5,056
This is the part where the narrative shifts to “well he carried the team so he deserves it”Well kucherov's team is barely a wildcard team this year so i guess you're voting for mack then.
This is the part where the narrative shifts to “well he carried the team so he deserves it”Well kucherov's team is barely a wildcard team this year so i guess you're voting for mack then.
Well duh. Nobody has won the hart + Conn Smythe in the same year since Gretzky. If anyone were to, it would be a major talking point.
However, I do agree with that the other poster is saying and it's true for any of the contenders for individual hardware. If you win the cup , you'll be the happiest. If you are runner up for an award and win the cup? Amazing feeling all summer.
If you win the hart or AR and don't win the cup? Still amazing but that player is probably going to be pretty upset with the season as a while because we have heard basically every superstar ever talk about how it's cup or bust and if you don't win that, it's all that's on your mind. Any superstar to play the game would take a top 3 hart finish and a cup over the award and no cup.
That said , it obviously matter for greatness lists /career accomplishments to win them. But to the players themselves they would all prefer to take the cup while also putting up an MVP caliber season. That's just the way it is. You play to win. It's a team sport, but any superstar who doesn't win the cup will blame themselves
These aren't really great reasons, especially 3 and 4. For 1 and 2, I can see that playing into it, in my mind, not great reasons, but can see where the voters would get drawn into the recent performance down the stretch, etc....but on balance of the season, not a big difference.A few key factors led to Hall squeaking out a win over MacKinnon in 2018, when compared directly to each other.
1. Hall had a 26 game point streak during the second half of the season.
2. The Avs were in playoff position all season and nearly tumbled out, until they beat the Blues on the final day of the season. Meanwhile, the Devils got hot down the stretch and got in at the end. Voters simply love that storyline.
3. MacKinnon was cold down the stretch when the Avs were faltering. He went 9 games without a goal and had 6 points while the Avs lost 6 of 9. To his credit, he had the game winning goal and added an assist in the clinching win on the final day of the season. Meanwhile, the Devils won 7 of their final 8 with Hall scoring 7 goals and 15 total points.
4. While better than the last place Avs the prior season, the Devils were last in the East and had the second fewest wins in the league. They had their own big turnaround factoring in as well.
I ultimately wish MacKinnon had won it so people wouldn’t talk about he got robbed over and over and we didn’t have to deal with him potentially winning it this season no matter what because he “deserves” it.
The fact is, it was his own fault he lost it. Not going cold down the stretch would have buffered him against Hall’s hot streak and would have certainly gave him the extra necessary votes.
I'm not , the point was that the players themselves value the cup more than the individual awards. You seemed to want to spin that opinion into another poster saying they thought players didn't care about hardware. They obviously do. But they are still going to be very happy to win the cup while being a finalist, much happier than the opposite.We’re fans giving our take on their placement in hockey history and how they stack up against other greats. Why are you three getting so hung up on how they feel? My original point is that the guy already has a Cup. Now what’s going to let him be compared more favorably against other all-timers?
More individual hardware which he has a very real chance at this season.
If you guys want to go back and forth talking about their feelings, feel free.
These aren't really great reasons, especially 3 and 4. For 1 and 2, I can see that playing into it, in my mind, not great reasons, but can see where the voters would get drawn into the recent performance down the stretch, etc....but on balance of the season, not a big difference.
For 3, that almost highlights MacK's importance, when he went through a slump, the team struggled.
For 4, yeah NJ was bad the year before and had a great turnaround, but CO was in the same boat the year before except worse....had a better turnaround....improved by 47pts vs. NJ improvement of 27pts.
1. I'm not , the point was that the players themselves value the cup more than the individual awards. You seemed to want to spin that opinion into another poster saying they thought players didn't care about hardware. They obviously do. But they are still going to be very happy to win the cup while being a finalist, much happier than the opposite.
2. Nobody is ranking MacKinnon above McDavid so don't worry. But it's fact that either one of them would take the cup over the hart or AR.
McDavid may not may not have been playing injured earlier in the season. It’s a silly debate. Nothing has ever been confirmed by anyone. It could have been a cold streak. People can believe what they want.
1983-84: EVG: 2.88, PPG: 0.92, SHG: 0.14If he was several tiers above them he'd won the Art already. I think Gretzky would have won playing a little over half a season his craziest season, and Lemieux could generally skip 20 games or so (non Peak Gretzky years).
If the season ended today MacK would absolutely have my vote. Lots of games left though.Well kucherov's team is barely a wildcard team this year so i guess you're voting for mack then.
MacK literally finished 4th in scoring. Kucherov finished higher and led the bolts to the best record in the east. Mackinnon is lucky he road a narrative.
I watch literally every Oilers game, and there is nothing that made it 100% clear. It’s all conjecture. As I said it’s a silly debate.No he was hurt and the team will not disclose what it is unless it was very serious (he missed two games during this stretch). For those that watch the Oilers regularly it was clear he was not snake bitten or lacked motivation. He was definitely playing through an injury...
Because the narrative that year seemed to be 'best player on fringe team with no help' but as we have seen before, often the media falls in love with the 'best player on the best team' narrative as well.How exactly did he ride a narrative when he didn't win? Kucherov had too much help in Tampa that year, the same reason Draisaitl has been left out of MVP conversations every year minus the year he won when McDavid got hurt.
It's funny how people are willing to write players off due to teammates, until it comes to one of the players on THEIR team, then it's somehow a screw job.
That was MacKinnon's Hart to win that year, but Taylor Hall played in the East (and yes that matters, as the majority of the voting media is asleep when Colorado, or Edmonton for that matter, play their games) and the Devils squeaked into the playoffs, so the media had a great narrative to latch on to.
2 smythes 3 cups and a golden goal is pretty dashing as wellDon't know if I would call a 100+ assist season "cute".
Know what is cute is scoring 28 goals and 84 points in a full season and losing the Ross to Jamie Benn.
I wouldnt leave this site without saying good bye to good ol video nasty. Dont worry
It's funny to see the NHL vs NBA narratives. If you're a play-in team in the NBA and putting up MVP numbers, you're not even in the conversation. In the NHL? You're "carrying your team".Well kucherov's team is barely a wildcard team this year so i guess you're voting for mack then.
Funny that there are numerous reports at the time of his injury that it would be for 1-2 weeks eh?I watch literally every Oilers game, and there is nothing that made it 100% clear. It’s all conjecture. As I said it’s a silly debate.
Come on bro that’s crazy. He literally missed games due to injury and then when he came back he was barely able to skate. Over the course of a couple weeks he probably dumped the puck in instead of trying to beat a defender more than he had in his entire career.I watch literally every Oilers game, and there is nothing that made it 100% clear. It’s all conjecture. As I said it’s a silly debate.
Come on bro that’s crazy. He literally missed games due to injury and then when he came back he was barely able to skate. Over the course of a couple weeks he probably dumped the puck in instead of trying to beat a defender more than he had in his entire career.
At 27 years old, McDavid has now more 100 points season than Crosby. Incredible
Patting myself on the back for this one.Kuch is going insane right now but McDavid is inevitable.
He has 5 games in hand.
I'd imagine once the teams are even in games played, McDavid will be within 3-4 points of Kucherov with more than half the season remaining.
Hope it's a battle down to the end but I do expect McDavid to win by 10+ points.
Agreed.. I want him to catch Lemieux!He would already be tied with Dionne if it was not for the shortened Covd season he had 97points in 64 games