Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[PaulD]

Anybody calling McDoodle a PP merchant is out to lunch, envious, or delusional. Seriously, get your head checked. You might not like him for whatever reason but the guy doesn't need me or anybody to market his style, he's amazing. On the flip side, calling Kucherov a PP merchant is delusional. The guy is doing things 5v5 that are unreal. He's played with postseason determination the first half of the year and if he keeps it up, he definitely has a shot at the Art Ross. This will be three huge contracts, three big time players, and three HOF guys going at it in their prime. Let's not be the new reiteration of the shit posting Crosby vs Ovechkin fan boys and miss what these guys are doing.

Nobody is missing what these guys are doing.
How could anyone.
Bashing them reeks of pure envy.

 

[Voight]

Yes, he missed a significant amount of games because of injury, which brings us back to my point that injury stopped him from racking up scoring titles rather than lack of offensive ability.

Even if he was healthy, no guarantee he wins 3 extra Art Ross'

 

[Incognito]

Even if he was healthy, no guarantee he wins 3 extra Art Ross'

I agree that an additional 3 Art Ross trophies is a stretch, and highly speculative. An extra 2 is a very safe bet though. Crosby would have definitely won in 2012-2013 (if I recall correctly, it took Martin St. Louis at least a month to catch him after he got injured), and he almost certainly would have won in 2010-2011 as well (it took the field a ridiculously long time to catch up to him after his injury that year too). But any other seasons aside from those, he missed too much time/other players were too close to his pace to safely assume that he would have captured the Art Ross.

 

[authentic]

Even if he was healthy, no guarantee he wins 3 extra Art Ross'

Well I would’ve personally put good money on him having 5 with 6 being a possibility as well. I mean to my point again he had the ability to do so, that’s pretty clear.

 

[authentic]

I agree that an additional 3 Art Ross trophies is a stretch, and highly speculative. An extra 2 is a very safe bet though. Crosby would have definitely won in 2012-2013 (if I recall correctly, it took Martin St. Louis at least a month to catch him after he got injured), and he almost certainly would have won in 2010-2011 as well (it took the field a ridiculously long time to catch up to him after his injury that year too). But any other seasons aside from those, he missed too much time/other players were too close to his pace to safely assume that he would have captured the Art Ross.

I don’t see how it’s a stretch at all when he had 37 points in 22 games sandwiched between 66 in 41 and 56 in 36. No one was really that close to him around this time period except Malkin in 2011-12 so yeah I think it’s not a slam dunk that he beats a healthy Malkin - but McDavid also wouldn’t have outside of his two best seasons either so it’s not like this would be a loss that was held against him - but it’s probably still likely that he would’ve won because he was simply the better player from age 22-26, and these are the ages all generational talents have their highest scoring seasons.

 

[Voight]

I agree that an additional 3 Art Ross trophies is a stretch, and highly speculative. An extra 2 is a very safe bet though. Crosby would have definitely won in 2012-2013 (if I recall correctly, it took Martin St. Louis at least a month to catch him after he got injured), and he almost certainly would have won in 2010-2011 as well (it took the field a ridiculously long time to catch up to him after his injury that year too). But any other seasons aside from those, he missed too much time/other players were too close to his pace to safely assume that he would have captured the Art Ross.

I disagree. Yes he was playing great in 2010-2011 but the fact is that was a half season sample size. I said earlier 2013 is one where I'd probably give him credit because he was close enough despite missing 12 games.

I don’t see how it’s a stretch at all when he had 37 points in 22 games sandwiched between 66 in 41 and 56 in 36. No one was really that close to him around this time period except Malkin in 2011-12 so yeah I think it’s not a slam dunk that he beats a healthy Malkin but it’s probably still likely that he would’ve because he was simply the better player from age 22-26, and these are the ages all generational talents have their highest scoring seasons.

Nobody is denying he played great in those 22 games, but that's only 1/4 of a season.

Regardless comparisons between players are based on fact. & the fact is, McDavid actually did win 5 Art Ross' (thus far) and has placed 1st or 2nd in scoring every season except for his rookie year. The best Crosby has done is 1,3,2 in a row. Or 1,3,3,2.

Well I would’ve personally put good money on him having 5 with 6 being a possibility as well. I mean to my point again he had the ability to do so, that’s pretty clear.

Sure, if you want go off half or quarter season sample sizes. You do you.

 

[Incognito]

I don’t see how it’s a stretch at all when he had 37 points in 22 games sandwiched between 66 in 41 and 56 in 36. No one was really that close to him around this time period except Malkin in 2011-12 so yeah I think it’s not a slam dunk that he beats a healthy Malkin - but McDavid also wouldn’t have outside of his two best seasons either so it’s not like this would be a loss that was held against him - but it’s probably still likely that he would’ve won because he was simply the better player from age 22-26, and these are the ages all generational talents have their highest scoring seasons.

I think there’s an extremely good chance he would have won it that year too. It’s mainly just the fact he only played 22 games that’s the biggest stumbling block for me, especially when considering seasons where I think that Crosby would have won the Art Ross beyond any shadow of a doubt if not for injury.

I disagree. Yes he was playing great in 2010-2011 but the fact is that was a half season sample size. I said earlier 2013 is one where I'd probably give him credit because he was close enough despite missing 12 games.



Nobody is denying he played great in those 22 games, but that's only 1/4 of a season.

Regardless comparisons between players are based on fact. & the fact is, McDavid actually did win 5 Art Ross' (thus far) and has placed 1st or 2nd in scoring every season except for his rookie year. The best Crosby has done is 1,3,2 in a row. Or 1,3,3,2.



Sure, if you want go off half or quarter season sample sizes. You do you.

We’ll probably agree to disagree on the 2010-2011 season, which is fine. I personally see Crosby as a near-lock for the Art Ross that season, especially when you consider that Daniel Sedin won the trophy with 104 points that year. This means that Crosby only needed 38 more points in 41 games to win the Ross that year. He could have dropped from a 132 point pace to a 76 point one (which would have been the worst offensive stretch of his career at that point), and he still would have won the scoring race.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

So this has turned into a Crosby thread?

 

[WarriorofTime]

So this has turned into a Crosby thread?

Eventually all threads lead back to Crosby’s hypothetical Art Ross Trophies

 

[Beukeboom]

Eventually all threads lead back to Crosby’s hypothetical Art Ross Trophies

The "Pittsburgh special", woulda, coulda shoulda...

The problem with handing Sid Arts 2011-2013 based on pace is that he did not win 2008-09 or 2009-10 (beaten fair and square by Malkin (and Ovie) and then Henrik Sedin, he did win 2013-14, but then was beaten by Jamie Benn (!) 14-15.

So loosing out on the Art three out of the four surrounding seasons does not merit an Art hand out based on half, or a quarter of a season.

 

[Video Nasty]

I think there’s an extremely good chance he would have won it that year too. It’s mainly just the fact he only played 22 games that’s the biggest stumbling block for me, especially when considering seasons where I think that Crosby would have won the Art Ross beyond any shadow of a doubt if not for injury.


We’ll probably agree to disagree on the 2010-2011 season, which is fine. I personally see Crosby as a near-lock for the Art Ross that season, especially when you consider that Daniel Sedin won the trophy with 104 points that year. This means that Crosby only needed 38 more points in 41 games to win the Ross that year. He could have dropped from a 132 point pace to a 76 point one (which would have been the worst offensive stretch of his career at that point), and he still would have won the scoring race.

While I agree that it’s likely Crosby wins it in 2010-2011, it also has to be recognized that we can’t just plug in an imaginary second half where the player didn’t play in reality, while expecting all the other events in the league to unfold exactly the same. It’s just too much to project out.

On the other hand, I’m willing to concede 2012-2013, despite him missing what amounted to be the final quarter of the schedule, because it took so long to get passed and he ultimately lost by just 4 points.

I think I would also be more willing to give out phantom Art Ross trophies if he didn’t lose cleanly in the seasons before (2008-2009 and 2009-2010 at age 22 and 23) and after (2014-2015 and 2015-2016 at age 27 and 28).

If he won even half of those, my entire outlook on him changes and I would agree with some of these gift scoring race wins because he would have earned more benefit of the doubt.

 

[Voight]

Eventually all threads lead back to Crosby’s hypothetical Art Ross Trophies

The HFB curse

 

[authentic]

I disagree. Yes he was playing great in 2010-2011 but the fact is that was a half season sample size. I said earlier 2013 is one where I'd probably give him credit because he was close enough despite missing 12 games.



Nobody is denying he played great in those 22 games, but that's only 1/4 of a season.

Regardless comparisons between players are based on fact. & the fact is, McDavid actually did win 5 Art Ross' (thus far) and has placed 1st or 2nd in scoring every season except for his rookie year. The best Crosby has done is 1,3,2 in a row. Or 1,3,3,2.



Sure, if you want go off half or quarter season sample sizes. You do you.

Quarter season or not it does not take away from my point that healthy Crosby could’ve easily had 5 or 6 Art Ross trophies without changing a single thing about his ability as a hockey player.

 

[KCC]

Quarter season or not it does not take away from my point that healthy Crosby could’ve easily had 5 or 6 Art Ross trophies without changing a single thing about his ability as a hockey player.

shoulda, woulda, coulda. He couldn’t stay healthy. Bottom line. So we have idea of truly knowing and we never will.

 

[Voight]

Quarter season or not it does not take away from my point that healthy Crosby could’ve easily had 5 or 6 Art Ross trophies without changing a single thing about his ability as a hockey player.

As Don Cherry once said "and if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle"

 

[authentic]

Nobody is missing what these guys are doing.
How could anyone.
Bashing them reeks of pure envy.

Wait, this coming from the guy who constantly bashes the best goal scorer in the game?

 

[authentic]

As Don Cherry once said "and if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle"

Sure but when people think it’s a massive stretch to say Crosby could’ve won those as if he just wasn’t good enough that’s a little crazier than saying he could’ve without those concussions and a flying puck to the jaw. We don’t have to agree about how many he would’ve won either, but most of his detractors have an easy time admitting he would’ve won 4 atleast so I suppose that will have to suffice. At the end of the day McDavid is a better offensive player and his play of late indicates he will build an even bigger gap for the foreseeable future.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

If you seriously think Crosby wasn't going to win in 2011 or 2013 then your just a delusional hater

 

[kaiser matias]

Eventually all threads lead back to Crosby’s hypothetical Art Ross Trophies

The HFB curse

Crosby's Law:

"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Crosby and the Art Ross Trophy approaches 1."

 

[PaulD]

shoulda, woulda, coulda. He couldn’t stay healthy. Bottom line. So we have idea of truly knowing and we never will.

Speak for your self. We do have an "idea" Huge sample size. We have all seen him play , witnessed his commitment and endurance. The rest is educated speculation and math.

 

[hamzarocks]

shoulda, woulda, coulda. He couldn’t stay healthy. Bottom line. So we have idea of truly knowing and we never will.

Thats fair but have to still salute him for carving out at worst a top 15 career in the league (hard to have him lower than 11 or 12 tbh if you really dock him for his injurie)

I have Crosby between 6-10 (think 8th).

He may not be Mcdavid level great but still a legend who dominated the NHL on per game basis like no one besides prime OV

 

[PaulD]

Wait, this coming from the guy who constantly bashes the best goal scorer in the game?

Saying I would take Lemieux over Gretz is not bashing Wayne, the greatest goal scorer of all time.
It's more a hats off to Mario.
Cheers

 

[PaulD]

Sure but when people think it’s a massive stretch to say Crosby could’ve won those as if he just wasn’t good enough that’s a little crazier than saying he could’ve without those concussions and a flying puck to the jaw. We don’t have to agree about how many he would’ve won either, but most of his detractors have an easy time admitting he would’ve won 4 atleast so I suppose that will have to suffice. At the end of the day McDavid is a better offensive player and his play of late indicates he will build an even bigger gap for the foreseeable future.

Agreed.
But I don't see Connor leading his team to four Stanley Cup finals and 3 Cups.
Or having the 200 ft game Sid has.

 

[authentic]

Saying I would take Lemieux over Gretz is not bashing Wayne, the greatest goal scorer of all time.
It's more a hats off to Mario.
Cheers

Lol no I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about Matthews. But hey you’re a Montreal fan so I suppose it makes sense.

 

[authentic]

Agreed.
But I don't see Connor leading his team to four Stsnkey Cup finals and 3 Cups.
Or having the 200 ft game Sid has.

Exactly which is why it remains to be seen if he claims that 5th spot (or potentially higher). No more Art Ross and no Cups would make it tough for him.