Nicholas Robertson Discussion.

[IPS]

Ugh these stats are hardly going to translate to the NHL.

Do you know these names:

Red Alma, Bronco Horvath, Dick Gamble, Zellio Toppazzini?

They're all AHL record holders.

Dick Gamble? Sounds like a great guy.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Dick Gamble? Sounds like a great guy.

Laugh out loud

 

[Stephen]

Maybe he'll figure it out in April. Maybe next season. He certainly hasn't figured it out now.

I don't think TOR can afford to give him a long leash in the NHL. It's a shame because a good situation is when your RFAs are hungry/playing well but on manageable contracts.

Robertson will be fine, but I don't know if it will happen soon. Perhaps not in TOR...

Well, the context here is Nicholas Robertson is actually a 2nd round pick from 2019. His career arc spiked in development the first year post draft but has been a disrupted since the pandemic, but otherwise expectations were accelerated, only to hit a traffic jam.

Look at other highly regarded guys like Shane Pinto or Bobby Brink from that draft and round and nobody's disappointed in their development. 5th overall Alex Turcotte has done even less and I don't think people are in a panic.

That said, I'm not crazy about the player type specifically. Honestly, there's a lot I don't like. I don't know if he's processing the game or understanding his role or what kind of ground rules the Leafs are setting for him. But from a developmental view, if he needs more time, it's quite natural at this stage.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Well, the context here is Nicholas Robertson is actually a 2nd round pick from 2019. His career arc spiked in development the first year post draft but has been a disrupted since the pandemic, but otherwise expectations were accelerated, only to hit a traffic jam.

Look at other highly regarded guys like Shane Pinto or Bobby Brink from that draft and round and nobody's disappointed in their development. 5th overall Alex Turcotte has done even less and I don't think people are in a panic.

That said, I'm not crazy about the player type specifically. Honestly, there's a lot I don't like. I don't know if he's processing the game or understanding his role or what kind of ground rules the Leafs are setting for him. But from a developmental view, if he needs more time, it's quite natural at this stage.

He has to find a balance between being a menace on the forecheck who physically engaged every chance he got like he was in junior, and a suitable patient game that a small young player needs to have at the NHL level. He did find a way to produce in the AHL and he's still very young, but his impact in the NHL is just not there yet. So far it looks like he's going pretty far the other way, and I hardly noticed him in his last NHL stint. He generated surprisingly little offensively, but did more or less hold his own driving play and had respectable underlying numbers

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Ugh these stats are hardly going to translate to the NHL.

Do you know these names:

Red Alma, Bronco Horvath, Dick Gamble, Zellio Toppazzini?

They're all AHL record holders.

Is it a guarantee that it will? No. But I'd rather he have good numbers in the AHL than not.

He scored at a similar pace to Briere/Giroux/Vanek/Palmieri/Couture at the same age so it's encouraging to see.

 

[hotpaws]

The concern I have is he plays exactly the same as he did in his first camp , mindlessly running around and then taking a huge windup any time he has a chance to shoot isn’t going to get him to the NHL .

 

[123offtheglass]

It's crazy to think this guy still has 2 years left until his entry level contract runs out.

 

[Fogelhund]

It's been a couple of rookie tournament games, and one preseason... a bit too early to start writing the script for this year. Technically, Robertson is still very young, and has plenty of runway to get to the NHL. Sure, he has some warts, but plenty of positives too. IMO, his biggest problem will be it's top six, or bust for him. If he doesn't make it this year, then he's competing with a bunch of guys, including possibly Amirov and Knies next year. That's going to be a tough assignment, particularly if Bunting is back

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Well, the context here is Nicholas Robertson is actually a 2nd round pick from 2019. His career arc spiked in development the first year post draft but has been a disrupted since the pandemic, but otherwise expectations were accelerated, only to hit a traffic jam.

Look at other highly regarded guys like Shane Pinto or Bobby Brink from that draft and round and nobody's disappointed in their development. 5th overall Alex Turcotte has done even less and I don't think people are in a panic.

That said, I'm not crazy about the player type specifically. Honestly, there's a lot I don't like. I don't know if he's processing the game or understanding his role or what kind of ground rules the Leafs are setting for him. But from a developmental view, if he needs more time, it's quite natural at this stage.

The OP doesn't set parameters for any context that relates to Robertson and the life of a 2nd round draft pick. Only "is he NHL worthy?", and "is he ready to lace up the skates for the team?".

I regret to say it, but I would say no to both questions.

Hopefully he'll get better.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The OP doesn't set parameters for any context that relates to Robertson and the life of a 2nd round draft pick. Only "is he NHL worthy?", and "is he ready to lace up the skates for the team?".

I regret to say it, but I would say no to both questions.

Hopefully he'll get better.

Went to 7 pm preseason game on Saturday and he looked dreadful .. I really only focused on him for his shifts .. I can't see it for him .. wingers you generally know right away if they are gonna make it .. I think he needs to get stronger on his skates and on da puck .. he does come back in his own end and attempts to play defense which is a good sign .. he looks like he is not strong enough to be a pro hockey player .. maybe best to get a pick back for him

 

[Stephen]

Went to 7 pm preseason game on Saturday and he looked dreadful .. I really only focused on him for his shifts .. I can't see it for him .. wingers you generally know right away if they are gonna make it .. I think he needs to get stronger on his skates and on da puck .. he does come back in his own end and attempts to play defense which is a good sign .. he looks like he is not strong enough to be a pro hockey player .. maybe best to get a pick back for him

I’m not sure it’s purely a physical issue with Robertson. If he wants to play a buzzy, work super hard, grind it out and get involved physically in a Zach Hyman, Matthew Knies projected type of game… His size will be an issue.

If he can bring a high IQ approach to the offensive side and just be an opportunistic scorer that would work fine for his size. I just think he’s biting off more than he can chew play style wise.

 

[Mess]

Went to 7 pm preseason game on Saturday and he looked dreadful .. I really only focused on him for his shifts .. I can't see it for him .. wingers you generally know right away if they are gonna make it .. I think he needs to get stronger on his skates and on da puck .. he does come back in his own end and attempts to play defense which is a good sign .. he looks like he is not strong enough to be a pro hockey player .. maybe best to get a pick back for him

Based on the rookie tournament and his first exhibition game, he did not look like a prospect knocking the door down to become an NHLer yet, and certainly not one (at the moment) expected to play in the open spot on the top 6.

Players like Malgin and Jarnkrok have been putting on a better show pushing for that LW spot with Tavares.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Agreed. I think we're all glad that there are other players Dubas has in his pocket. For now counting on Robertson isn't in the plans.

 

[justashadowof]

Nick's big brother became an established NHLer after his 21st birthday. Nick just turned 21 but remember that he was something like 2 month's premmy. BTW I hadn't noticed how much taller Nick's brother Jason is: 6 inches.

 

[Community]

Based on the rookie tournament and his first exhibition game, he did not look like a prospect knocking the door down to become an NHLer yet, and certainly not one (at the moment) expected to play in the open spot on the top 6.

Players like Malgin and Jarnkrok have been putting on a better show pushing for that LW spot with Tavares.

I'm not saying Robertson is the solution for the 2LW, but I'd be pretty surprised if Jarnkrok or Malgin didn't look better in thr first couple pre-season games...

You're comparing him to a vet with former pro experience looking to cement himself as an NHLer and an established middle 6 forward. They should both be able to jump into our lineup quicker than a non-superstar rookie. He needs an extended audition early in the season (10+ games) to see if he progresses or not before we come to any conclusions.

 

[Stephen]

I'm not saying Robertson is the solution for the 2LW, but I'd be pretty surprised if Jarnkrok or Malgin didn't look better in thr first couple pre-season games...

You're comparing him to a vet with former pro experience looking to cement himself as an NHLer and an established middle 6 forward. They should both be able to jump into our lineup quicker than a non-superstar rookie. He needs an extended audition early in the season (10+ games) to see if he progresses or not before we come to any conclusions.

My overall concern with Robertson is he doesn’t really understand what his ultimate role here is and I don’t know what conversations are like with management other than Wickenheiser telling him to relax.

I think if he wants to be a top 6 guy he’ll need to watch Caufield and DeBrincat game tape and try to do less, get open and get his shot off. His skating is worse than those two but how do you get open. How do you get a shot off quick at different angles, how do exploit openings etc.

The buzzy, work hard, dog on a bone style of forechecking doesn’t work well with his body type. He can’t close on every puck possession by the opposition because when he gets there he doesn’t have the tools to lay a wallop if he was a power forward. He’s not Hyman. He’s not even Kase.

He’s just got to be a lot smarter, opportunistic and efficient with his play style suiting if the player he needs to become.

 

[paulhiggins]

I wonder if we could package him up with Kerfoot, Holl and some other young player/prospect for Matt Dumba who will be UFA after this year? Dumba might re-sign with us for not so crazy money.

 

[67Cup]

Ugh these stats are hardly going to translate to the NHL.

Do you know these names:

Red Alma, Bronco Horvath, Dick Gamble, Zellio Toppazzini?

They're all AHL record holders.

No idea who Red Alma was but Bronco Horvath was a more than solid player verging on a star. In his best season he ended up second by one point in the Art Ross Trophy to Hall of Famer Bobby Hull. And he tied Hull for most goals. He played on the Bruins then famous “Uke Line”. Toppazini and Gamble had a number of stints in the NHL in the days of the original six when there weren’t many jobs in the Show.

 

[HockeyVirus]

I got a lot of flack as a hater but I am a big Leaf homer and want him to succeed obviously. He just is one of the most obvious "tools but not toolbox" players you can watch. His shot is very good but he has yet to find any way to generate space for him to use it at the next level. Probably because as other pointed out, all he does is chase after the puck like me ball chasing in rocket league.

However outside of his shot which he can't use, his physical abilities are not NHL quality. His skating is too slow in acceleration and top end speed to be a rush winger. His size is too small to be a grinding winger. Some players (like Matthews) make it look effortless because they seem to go where the puck is going to be. Robertson goes where the puck is and by the time he gets there the play has moved on and all he can do is bust his ass to where the puck is currently or backcheck.

Simply put this is a player who is 3 or 4 years away at best. Dubas I am a fan of, but his loyalty to players can sometimes be a flaw and this is it. If he has any value as a prospect, now is the time to use that (esp if he has an outstanding AHL season) and move him to keep better prospects and improve the roster for playoffs.

I also don't know if this is the player or our development staff (assuming player as it is such an outlier), but he has been conducting himself as if he was told he is our top prospect and will be a full time NHLer for 2 seasons now. He sat out the WJC because he felt it was beneath him and he wanted to prepare for camp only to be a non factor and be demoted. 2 years later and he still looks like he is fresh out of juniors.

And all of this without mentioning how injury prone he is. He has a wicked shot, his best hope is to become a PP specialist ala Hoffman and pot 20 goals on some teams 3rd line.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

No idea who Red Alma was but Bronco Horvath was a more than solid player verging on a star. In his best season he ended up second by one point in the Art Ross Trophy to Hall of Famer Bobby Hull. And he tied Hull for most goals. He played on the Bruins then famous “Uke Line”. Toppazini and Gamble had a number of stints in the NHL in the days of the original six when there weren’t many jobs in the Show.

You did nothing to alter the point I was making.

If you want to go on believing that Robertson's numbers are going to translate perfectly to the NHL then I suggest you go see Robertson in person.

 

[Rude Dog]

Feels like he is the new whipping boy in town. Still so young. Love his energy and potential. Hoping he can figure it out at the NHL level. I think he will be a regular come playoff time but will start the year (for the best) in the AHL

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I wonder if we could package him up with Kerfoot, Holl and some other young player/prospect for Matt Dumba who will be UFA after this year? Dumba might re-sign with us for not so crazy money.

No I don't think we could.

As for Nick, he has a lethal shot, and for that reason alone I think we give him all the time he needs. Depth goals are at a premium league wide, so you don't trade a guy who has an elite shot and good hands if you have top 6 positions open for the foreseeable future.

Let him start in the Marlies (no, not to dominate....just let him play and condition his body) and have him as our 1st call up this year.

He needs to learn to read the game better - all the hustle in the world is great until the opponent passes the puck and you are too small to lay them out.

 

[Gamble9]

Just a pile on him he's got projectable skills people acting like a Hoffman type would be a huge miss for him and a disappointment are out to lunch a late secound scoring 30 a few times and being a lock to score 20 in the middle six would be awesome

 

[67Cup]

You did nothing to alter the point I was making.

If you want to go on believing that Robertson's numbers are going to translate perfectly to the NHL then I suggest you go see Robertson in person.

Stay calm there. I wasn’t arguing with you about Robertson. A person who has watched hockey long enough to remember seeing Horvath and Gamble play is likely to know that AHL numbers don’t usually “translate perfectly to the NHL.” I was just correcting an historical misapprehension. Horvath, at least, was a really good player and I will add here that if Robertson ends up as good as Horvath, I will be delighted and, like you I think, a bit surprised.

 

[andora]

I'm not saying Robertson is the solution for the 2LW, but I'd be pretty surprised if Jarnkrok or Malgin didn't look better in thr first couple pre-season games...

You're comparing him to a vet with former pro experience looking to cement himself as an NHLer and an established middle 6 forward. They should both be able to jump into our lineup quicker than a non-superstar rookie. He needs an extended audition early in the season (10+ games) to see if he progresses or not before we come to any conclusions.

Maybe if he was 24

Starting in the ahl is not an indictment to anything long term.. he doesnt look ready..

Its been shift to shift.. not great stretch bad stretch etc..