Niagara IceDogs 2022-23 Off-Season Thread

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dirty12

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Trades and grades chronologically:

1> David Jesus (3rd and 5th)
Great Trade. I give that an ”A.” Jesus is a good d-Man and really steady. A strong add
Interesting how different we view the moves independently.
Jesus - ok, C+ Better speed and more offence than I saw with Gens, but at times can look like the monkey in the middle in his zone.
2> Gaidamak (4th)
I didn't understand this deal...at all. It was only a 4th but he is Russian and there were issues with some Russians because of what is going on. Plus his 2nd half in Ottawa was putrid. Total “D”
From the little bit I saw early last season, I thought Gaidamak and Sirrizotti might be good together. E-Effort.
3> Papais (3rd and 4th)
Another good deal. Decent OA Forward. Not a bad cost. Possible point per game guy. Just didn’t work out. Grade “B”
Hated this one as I saw absolutely no need for a LW, let alone OA LW.
4> Ribeau (3rd & 4th)
Why make this deal? They added Jesus. They added an OA forward in Papais. There was no need to go here at all. This is where things tart to go off the rails. The cost of acquisition was fine but why? Grade”C”
Liked this one a lot. A physical vet LD on a team that previously had one LD and 6-7 RD. B.
5> Zito (2nd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, cond 4th and cond 5th)
What the hell is this deal? I assume the conditionals are him playing an OA season. That’s fine but if you are giving conditionals for OA seasons then why so much up front with two 2nds? This is a horrible deal. For this to work out they’d need Zito to play as a 19 and 20 year old and both years would need to be 80+ point type seasons. Very possible but mitigate the risk with one of the 2nds as a conditional. Grade “D”
Legitimate PK & #2 C to take pressure off Fimis. A
6> Dann (2nd, 2nd, 5th)
Much better deal than the Zito deal because at least there are no conditionals for an OA season. But, there is a difference between a line driver and a passenger. Dann is a passenger, a complimentary piece. If you are going to start paying two 2nds+ for a forward, then make sure it is a player that drives the line or at least be a centre. Grade “B”
Seemed like a good idea. D.
At this point I question what the hell is going on. I get adding two OA’s (not 3). I get adding a 19 year old forward. But at this point you really need to stop. Adding way too much without getting a sense of how the pieces fit together. It isn’t a video game.

7> Great return for Dickinson “A+”
8> William Stewart (12th)
Meh. Whatever. No grade required
9> Runco (Cond 15th)
See #8
10> Klein (12th)
See #8
11> Leblanc’s (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th)
Great deal. Two serviceable players. Neither great nor bad cost. Grade “B”
Trade for the twins was more like I expected of a team wanting to host the following season. A.
12> Keane (2nd, 3rd, Leonard)
Ok. I like Keene but this is the exact reason why you keep an OA spot open. Assess your needs and adjust. The return is sorta fine, maybe a bit too much at that stage of the season but it also means you are trading away one of th players you traded good assets for to make room. So Papais leaves and you lost the 3rd and 4th and only regain a 5th. That makes this move costly when you consider the opportunity costs added in with the acquisition of Papais.
C+ higher if not for the waste on Papais
At this point it is game over. Roster churn is in full tire fire mode.

The Leblanc deal screams out as the reason why you don’t need to acquire so much all at once int he offseason. Opportunities come available during the season and you have enough information regarding the needs of the team so as to inform proper decisions.

If you look at each deal individually, they aren’t bad. I mean, I think the Zito deal is bad. Too many picks for him. The Dann deal is too much because, again, he doesn’t drive his line. He is a complimentary piece. You have to have the centre or else he’s not as effective. If you acquire Zito, don’t acquire Dann. See what you have that can work and make adjustments.

On the aggregate, it is too much. Too many pieces to configure. This approach doesn't tend to win at this level. I can’t argue with the individual trades though. On the Aggregate, the value out vs value in is good. Of course when you make this many moves, not all of them will work so not a big deal from that perspective by why so many moves so quick?
Niagara is pretty much stuck hoping the roster matures by game 20 next season or be worst failure since (2014?) spitfires.
I think it’s going to be alright; it’s pretty hard not to be good with 3-1sts among 8-19 yr olds and good OAs.
 
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OMG67

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Nicely stated, terrific to read logic with reason.

Its going to be a significant challenge to get the talented 2023 draft picks to commit, churning a roster while transitioning between ownership gong shows is turning into a train wreck heading for the tire fire. Future players/agents see it and will be positioning to avoid Niagara.

Its going to get worse before it gets better, dobbelaer remains on the step side of the learning curve working his way through his GM apprenticeship.

They can still draft best available and trade at the deadline. They just wouldn’t get the comp pick.
 
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OMG67

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Interesting how different we view the moves independently.
Jesus - ok, C+ Better speed and more offence than I saw with Gens, but at times can look like the monkey in the middle in his zone.

From the little bit I saw early last season, I thought Gaidamak and Sirrizotti might be good together. E-Effort.

Hated this one as I saw absolutely no need for a LW, let alone OA LW.

Liked this one a lot. A physical vet LD on a team that previously had one LD and 6-7 RD. B.

Legitimate PK & #2 C to take pressure off Fimis. A

Seemed like a good idea. D.

That’s more like I expected of a team wanting to host the following season. A.

C+ higher if not for the waste on Papais

Niagara is pretty much stuck hoping the roster matures by game 20 next season or be worst failure since (2014?) spitfires.
I think it’s going to be alright; it’s pretty hard not to be good with 3-1sts among 8-19 yr olds and good OAs.
I think we mostly agree. I was approaching it chronologically. Decide which two OA’s and which 19 year old forward and stop there. The names of the ones chosen are inconsequential. We only disagree on Jesus really.

For example, I had no issues when they added the first two OA’s. Great. All good. I like Jesus a lot. Saw him play a lot last year in Oshawa (against Ottawa). Papais was a great add based on the value traded. Solid point producing forward for a 3rd and 4th. If they should have acquired the 2nd D-Man instead then so be it. Either/or. Pick one of Papais or Ribeau. Leave an OA spot open.

Then pick one of Dann or Zito. But, it was too much up front for Zito. It is an offseason deal. Clearly that deal was too good for Oshawa to not keep him through the deadline. Paid way too much at that point of the offseason. No issues with the player himself though. Just too many assets going the other way.

It all snowballs from there. Too many trades. Too many pieces to fit together and build a team. You end up in an Expansion team scenario because so many players not playing together. It is a crap shoot.
 

OHL4Life

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I think we mostly agree. I was approaching it chronologically. Decide which two OA’s and which 19 year old forward and stop there. The names of the ones chosen are inconsequential. We only disagree on Jesus really.

For example, I had no issues when they added the first two OA’s. Great. All good. I like Jesus a lot. Saw him play a lot last year in Oshawa (against Ottawa). Papais was a great add based on the value traded. Solid point producing forward for a 3rd and 4th. If they should have acquired the 2nd D-Man instead then so be it. Either/or. Pick one of Papais or Ribeau. Leave an OA spot open.

Then pick one of Dann or Zito. But, it was too much up front for Zito. It is an offseason deal. Clearly that deal was too good for Oshawa to not keep him through the deadline. Paid way too much at that point of the offseason. No issues with the player himself though. Just too many assets going the other way.

It all snowballs from there. Too many trades. Too many pieces to fit together and build a team. You end up in an Expansion team scenario because so many players not playing together. It is a crap shoot.

i thoguht both london trades were pretty poor from niagaras perspective. keane is good, but there are a ton of 02s out here, its a buyers market.

the flores deal was awful, a very average goalie who was not good enough THIS YEAR in london for a 2nd and a 5th?
 
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OHL4Life

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FWIW I loved that deal..
Sorry I'll see myself out..
I dont hate the idea of the deal, its just why a 2nd and a 5th? move a 5th, conditional 2nd on if hes an oa or something? games played? its not like anyone else would be trading for him
 
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OHL4Life

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What do you think of Erie's scouting dept now compared to what it was in 2020-2021?
they were the best scouting group when scott was there, he left for buffalo and since then its very very questionable. lots of small guys with not high end skill
 

HockeyPops

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Clarification question: I know that teams can't get first round compensation picks two years in a row, but is that true for both their first round picks, or only the one that was given as compensation?
 

OMG67

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Clarification question: I know that teams can't get first round compensation picks two years in a row, but is that true for both their first round picks, or only the one that was given as compensation?
Both. You can’t continually go to the well. I kno wit is in back to back seasons but maybe someone can clarify. Something tells me it is once every three seasons though but not 100% on that.

The recourse is to obviously retain the player rights and trade the player at the deadline in January. No comp first though unfortunately.
 

2023

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I think we mostly agree. I was approaching it chronologically. Decide which two OA’s and which 19 year old forward and stop there. The names of the ones chosen are inconsequential. We only disagree on Jesus really.

For example, I had no issues when they added the first two OA’s. Great. All good. I like Jesus a lot. Saw him play a lot last year in Oshawa (against Ottawa). Papais was a great add based on the value traded. Solid point producing forward for a 3rd and 4th. If they should have acquired the 2nd D-Man instead then so be it. Either/or. Pick one of Papais or Ribeau. Leave an OA spot open.

Then pick one of Dann or Zito. But, it was too much up front for Zito. It is an offseason deal. Clearly that deal was too good for Oshawa to not keep him through the deadline. Paid way too much at that point of the offseason. No issues with the player himself though. Just too many assets going the other way.

It all snowballs from there. Too many trades. Too many pieces to fit together and build a team. You end up in an Expansion team scenario because so many players not playing together. It is a crap shoot.
You can’t judge these kids and trades.
These kids haven’t been coached. They came from other teams with systems and now they don’t have anything. These kids are mostly first and second round ohl picks. Zito is an nhl drafted player. This team should not be this bad, I’m sorry.
 

dirty12

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You can’t judge these kids and trades.
These kids haven’t been coached. They came from other teams with systems and now they don’t have anything. These kids are mostly first and second round ohl picks. Zito is an nhl drafted player. This team should not be this bad, I’m sorry.
They need a break, now.
 

OHL4Life

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You can’t judge these kids and trades.
These kids haven’t been coached. They came from other teams with systems and now they don’t have anything. These kids are mostly first and second round ohl picks. Zito is an nhl drafted player. This team should not be this bad, I’m sorry.
we all predicted they would be this bad (maybe not all, but 90 percent). maybe not last overall, but barely a play off team.
 
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three dog night

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Icedogs rallied from a two goal deficit against Kingston tonight on home ice only to lose in a shootout 3 to 2 before 3,366 fans at the Meridian Centre. It was the first shootout game of the season for the Dogs now zero 3 and 1 under their new coach. Next game tomorrow night in Kitchener l
 

OHL4Life

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Icedogs rallied from a two goal deficit against Kingston tonight on home ice only to lose in a shootout 3 to 2 before 3,366 fans at the Meridian Centre. It was the first shootout game of the season for the Dogs now zero 3 and 1 under their new coach. Next game tomorrow night in Kitchener l
maybe its not the third coaches fault?
 
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three dog night

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Icedogs get their first win for the new coach with a hard fought win over Mississauga 2 to 1 . Michaud the game winning goal in period three with just under six minutes left. Waddick scored the other goal for the Dogs. Mississauga out shot the Dogs 44 to 27 . 3,717 tonight at the Meridian Centre. Next game next Saturday with Sudbury then it the Christmas break.
 
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