Niagara IceDogs 2022-23 Off-Season Thread

[OHL4Life]

I feel like this is the same song and dance you were giving last year. Each time Niagara gets fleeced, it’s somehow making them better. Last year every brutal trade you justified by saying it was a GM building towards a mem cup bid. You justified the Dylan Roobroeck trade by saying Evan Klein would be a replacement level player…. One guy had a career sophomore season and got drafted, the other had 3 total points on the season.

How much longer are you going to carry water for an organization that is making a mockery of itself?

What exactly are the rest of us missing here?

no problem with niagara getting those players, it just should have been a 6th or 5th going with copeland, not a 2nd and 3rd

 

[Dog Fan]

I understand and appreciate everything being said here, the thing I don't understand is why we are following the same blueprint as last year. Begin the year with the team you had last year plus the newly drafted players that make the team. Find out quickly what you can live with and what you cant. Find out who is available and would fit the system. Last years debacle of trading for players because they were good players did not work out because some didn't want to be here and others didn't play well together. The new owner and assistant GM need some patience.

 

[dirty12]

I guess that is a good point. A 2nd round pick in the hands of Niagara is a 4th round pick because that’s how deep they need to go to get guys to report. That is a problem unto itself that needs to change. They can’t change that until the team starts to improve on the ice. Vicious cycle they have put themselves in.

Frolov may have been a big reach.
Czata was not a huge leap, I think it just hurts that Niagara did not get a D round 1.
A little lucky with Galiyanov in the 4th helps.

 

[OMG67]

Frolov may have been a big reach.
Czata was not a huge leap, I think it just hurts that Niagara did not get a D round 1.
A little lucky with Galiyanov in the 4th helps.

The bottom line was I didn’t consider the reaching aspect of their draft picking and that is a good catch on your part. At some point they need to affect change in cultur. Adding a Humphrey in particular should help affect that change. The dividends it can provide with respect to a change in culture and perception of the franchise can have far greater benefits than the picks themselves. That is assuming they allow the change to occur and don’t try to over force the situation.

 

[OHL4Life]

The bottom line was I didn’t consider the reaching aspect of their draft picking and that is a good catch on your part. At some point they need to affect change in cultur. Adding a Humphrey in particular should help affect that change. The dividends it can provide with respect to a change in culture and perception of the franchise can have far greater benefits than the picks themselves. That is assuming they allow the change to occur and don’t try to over force the situation.

even if thats the case, you still dont just give up picks for no reason. you need to value them in trades appropriately. lets say that humphreys is an outstanding locker room guy, his value on the market is still a single 3rd or 4th regardless. you dont just give up what you did because mark hunter asks for it.

if you want to trade picks, thats cool, but do it for players that are worth what your paying for

 

[OMG67]

even if thats the case, you still dont just give up picks for no reason. you need to value them in trades appropriately. lets say that humphreys is an outstanding locker room guy, his value on the market is still a single 3rd or 4th regardless. you dont just give up what you did because mark hunter asks for it.

if you want to trade picks, thats cool, but do it for players that are worth what your paying for

I agree. I will counter with the fact that Niagara is in a quandary. They ar win a bad situation and they aren’t in a situation where they can negotiate from a position of strength. So, based on that, they are going to get humped now and then.

There is also a difference of opinion regarding the other players in the deal so we can’t say that it was Humphreys for the 2nd and 3rd. Personally, I feel that is accurate but maybe Niagara values Paris higher than Copeland and the picks value is helping to even out that portion of the deal.

I hate trying to justify something that I don’t fully agree with but I am just trying to put myself in Niagara’s shoes to formulate that justification.

All that said, I do feel that leadership is a factor and I disagree the value of a 3rd and 4th when you are acquiring a Captain. I feel it is more like a 2nd and 5th. It also depends on whether there are leaders available when they need one.

I liken this sort of assessment regarding leadership to Peterborough’s infatuation with Spearing last season keeping that OA spot for him while constantly injured. That was only because of his leadership and the impact he meant to the team as the Captain. Can Humphrey be that guy? Time will tell but I think that is what Niagara is looking at with this deal. They chose to overpay for an element they were lacking in a bad way.

Or, I could be totally wrong and they think he is going to score 40goals and 90 points and they are dumb as a bag of hammers.

 

[OHL4Life]

I agree. I will counter with the fact that Niagara is in a quandary. They ar win a bad situation and they aren’t in a situation where they can negotiate from a position of strength. So, based on that, they are going to get humped now and then.

There is also a difference of opinion regarding the other players in the deal so we can’t say that it was Humphreys for the 2nd and 3rd. Personally, I feel that is accurate but maybe Niagara values Paris higher than Copeland and the picks value is helping to even out that portion of the deal.

I hate trying to justify something that I don’t fully agree with but I am just trying to put myself in Niagara’s shoes to formulate that justification.

All that said, I do feel that leadership is a factor and I disagree the value of a 3rd and 4th when you are acquiring a Captain. I feel it is more like a 2nd and 5th. It also depends on whether there are leaders available when they need one.

I liken this sort of assessment regarding leadership to Peterborough’s infatuation with Spearing last season keeping that OA spot for him while constantly injured. That was only because of his leadership and the impact he meant to the team as the Captain. Can Humphrey be that guy? Time will tell but I think that is what Niagara is looking at with this deal. They chose to overpay for an element they were lacking in a bad way.

Or, I could be totally wrong and they think he is going to score 40goals and 90 points and they are dumb as a bag of hammers.

everyone has told him what he needs to do to make significant change, but he refuses to do it. walk away from all hockey operations and hire someone with ohl experience, assistant gm or past gm, give him a budget and let him do what he needs to do to make it work. he is an incompetent general manager and the ice dogs will struggle to attract talent the same way others do for as long as he is actively involved in hockey operations. there are 4/5 ast gms out there from egart to lafortune to simpson who will be gms soon, give them the wheel and it will be better then with dd.

 

[OMG67]

everyone has told him what he needs to do to make significant change, but he refuses to do it. walk away from all hockey operations and hire someone with ohl experience, assistant gm or past gm, give him a budget and let him do what he needs to do to make it work. he is an incompetent general manager and the ice dogs will struggle to attract talent the same way others do for as long as he is actively involved in hockey operations. there are 4/5 ast gms out there from egart to lafortune to simpson who will be gms soon, give them the wheel and it will be better then with dd.

We don’t disagree there but at the same time, that isn’t the situation they are in. I am trying to find a silver lining in the trade or at least some sort of meaning to make sense of it and I believe I have a solid understanding of why they did what they did. Barring the actions you suggest, which I highly doubt will happen in the manner you speak of, this is maybe the next best solution. Try to inject some proper leadership amongst the players and see if they can figure it out from the dressing room down. If they can at least figure that out, the impact of poor management is lessened. It reduces the need for the management to lay hands on the team.

 

[Kingpin794]

We don’t disagree there but at the same time, that isn’t the situation they are in. I am trying to find a silver lining in the trade or at least some sort of meaning to make sense of it and I believe I have a solid understanding of why they did what they did. Barring the actions you suggest, which I highly doubt will happen in the manner you speak of, this is maybe the next best solution. Try to inject some proper leadership amongst the players and see if they can figure it out from the dressing room down. If they can at least figure that out, the impact of poor management is lessened. It reduces the need for the management to lay hands on the team.

Bringing in one or two older players to act as leadership isn't going to fix the issue. It's not even going to help the issue. It's a band aid on a 2 foot wide wound. OHL4Life laid it out perfectly. If they refuse to take proper steps as you seem to think they are unwilling to do, then they will continue to struggle.

 

[OMG67]

Bringing in one or two older players to act as leadership isn't going to fix the issue. It's not even going to help the issue. It's a band aid on a 2 foot wide wound. OHL4Life laid it out perfectly. If they refuse to take proper steps as you seem to think they are unwilling to do, then they will continue to struggle.

You are probably right but at least they have identified a solid leader to help the team. That is a step in the right direction compared to last year.

 

[Dog Fan]

You are probably right but at least they have identified a solid leader to help the team. That is a step in the right direction compared to last year.

In my opinion, the ownership of the ice dogs is showing a lack of maturity. It appears to me that he requires immediate gratification or the season will be a failure. I thought we reached into Owen Sound for a leader and now we reach into London for an overage leader...I don't understand.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Okay, so I'm trying to organize how the roster shapes up after the drafts and another batch of chaotic trades. Does this look somewhat accurate? I didn't know who to slot in to the 2RW spot because of left shots. Let me know if I'm missing any key returning players (or prospects who are better than anyone currently listed on the roster).

Based on the roster below, I'm expecting an electric top line. A meh 2nd line that could improve with Roobroeck finding his confidence, and a whole lot of question marks beyond that.

The defense looks weak. That said, I had a scout tell me good things about Podrekar. If Ride and Wycisk take a step forward, it could be passible for a bottom feeder playoff team.

Goaltending should provide some stability.

I see some fun nights, but still many ugly nights ahead.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]LW[/TD]
[TD]C[/TD]
[TD]RW[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]He[/TD]
[TD]Assadourian[/TD]
[TD]Lavoie[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Humphrey[/TD]
[TD]Bryant[/TD]
[TD]Roobroeck[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Levin[/TD]
[TD]Podolioukh[/TD]
[TD]Paris[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Galiyanov[/TD]
[TD]Czata[/TD]
[TD]Stewart[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]LD[/TD]
[TD]RD[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ride[/TD]
[TD]Federkow[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Podrekar[/TD]
[TD]Wycisk[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Frolov[/TD]
[TD]Sobolev[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]Vannetten[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Flores[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Vandenburg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Burns[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[dirty12]

Okay, so I'm trying to organize how the roster shapes up after the drafts and another batch of chaotic trades. Does this look somewhat accurate? I didn't know who to slot in to the 2RW spot because of left shots. Let me know if I'm missing any key returning players (or prospects who are better than anyone currently listed on the roster).

Based on the roster below, I'm expecting an electric top line. A meh 2nd line that could improve with Roobroeck finding his confidence, and a whole lot of question marks beyond that.

The defense looks weak. That said, I had a scout tell me good things about Podrekar. If Ride and Wycisk take a step forward, it could be passible for a bottom feeder playoff team.

Goaltending should provide some stability.

I see some fun nights, but still many ugly nights ahead.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

O'Flaherty is not among your top 12?

I think I’d have Humphrey with Podolioukh, but I’ll guess the new vets get prominent roles to start.
Humphrey - Bryant - Lavoie
He - Assadourian- Paris
Roobroek/O’Flaherty - Podolioukh - Roobroek/Stewart/Vermulen
Galiyanov - Czata - Levin

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

O'Flaherty is not among your top 12?

I’ll guess the new vets get prominent roles to start.
Humphrey - Bryant - Lavoie
He - Assadourian- Paris
Roobroek/O’Flaherty - Podolioukh - Roobroek/Stewart/Vermulen
Galiyanov - Czata - Levin

I forgot about the O'Flaherty.

I just can't see He not leading the team in ice-time among forwards. Again, I've spoken to someone in the scouting world who says there's potential there to be a first round pick in the upcoming draft. I think he will be by far their best player this season.

 

[dirty12]

I forgot about the O'Flaherty.

I just can't see He not leading the team in ice-time among forwards. Again, I've spoken to someone in the scouting world who says there's potential there to be a first round pick in the upcoming draft. I think he will be by far their best player this season.

He would have made an OHL team look smart if picked top 10 imo.
If you prefer, He drives line 1 with Assadourian; and, Bryant is the playmaking #2 centre for Lavoie (and Roobroek?).
I’d prefer Humphrey-Podolioukh as PK1 and vs other’s top line.

 

[ip4982s]

I don’t think players are refusing to report or asking for trades because of scoreboard. It’s the leadership and coaching that impacts whether players want to play for the team. All these trades this year were because the players hate the culture of Niagara from the front office and bench and wanted to be traded. Until that is fixed, scoreboard won’t change.

 

[bigsportsfan]

I don’t think players are refusing to report or asking for trades because of scoreboard. It’s the leadership and coaching that impacts whether players want to play for the team. All these trades this year were because the players hate the culture of Niagara from the front office and bench and wanted to be traded. Until that is fixed, scoreboard won’t change.

You are correct. The players are not refusing to play there because the team is losing. I believe they don't like it in Niagara because the owner won't spend the money on the players. At the beginning of last season, he wasn't paying for their meals when they drove to away games. He eventually started buying their meals but then stopped offering meals in the scout/media room. When they played in Sudbury on a Sunday afternoon, he made the team take the bus from St. Catharines at 6am in the morning instead of going up the night before, which saved him from having to buy the team dinner on Saturday night and the hotel costs. These are just a few examples.

The owner is doing all he can to save money, and its effecting the team's ability to recruit players. Maybe this is why his GOJHL and OJHL team's did so poorly in Brantford. If you are not willing to offer players the same things other teams do, you are going to have problems attracting top talent.

Even if the owner some how came up with the money to hire a qualified GM, they would still have problems attracting players.

 

[WorkHardEveryShift]

Barrie is a much cheaper organization than Niagara. But they have somewhat of a winning culture. I don't see a mass exodus there. Combine cheap and losing, and it's a bad environment

 

[OHL4Life]

Barrie is a much cheaper organization than Niagara. But they have somewhat of a winning culture. I don't see a mass exodus there. Combine cheap and losing, and it's a bad environment

im not sure that barrie is AS cheap. they are cheap like london but end of the day pay what they have to on things they have too, like food and travel.

 

[dirty12]

Barrie is a much cheaper organization than Niagara. But they have somewhat of a winning culture. I don't see a mass exodus there. Combine cheap and losing, and it's a bad environment

Barrie also has an exceptional manager that knows exactly what players that he as the coach wants. I think players knowing how they fit with a team helps in recruitment.

 

[three dog night]

Icedogs double Oshawa 6 to 3 tonight at
the Meridian Centre preseason record at two and two.

 

[three dog night]

Ice dogs lose3 to 1 to Peterborough in Milbrook finish the preseason 2 and 3.

 

[nelli27]

New thread... https://forums.hfboards.com/forums/ohl.148/post-thread