Niagara IceDogs 2022-23 Off-Season Thread

[LDN]

The forwards are fast but have a tough time to finish Defence is weak wish it bit of. surprise because they are veterans Jesus probably the best of tge bunch . Rosey the better goaltender but has been nursing an injury but his back. Flores gets burn on rebounds. Flores started last night expect Rosey will start tonight.

Sounds good. It’ll be a battle of effort tonight. Who wants it more

 

[Dog Fan]

These poor players. I am watching the game this afternoon from Sudbury and they have no idea how to play hockey. I guess i can only hope that as the coach brings in his system the players will adapt and understand how to play as a team.

 

[Dog Fan]

Can we now discuss the potential of a new General Manager. The IceDog ownership should be embarrassed by their own decisions.

 

[HUSH10]

Wow....just wow

 

[OMG67]

When you get 13 dropped on you by Sudbury, you know something is wrong. Sorry, Sudbury. No disrespect meant.

 

[Square Corners]

Hows the new coach doing?

 

[Wolfman Jack]

When you get 13 dropped on you by Sudbury, you know something is wrong. Sorry, Sudbury. No disrespect meant.

Not sure what you mean then? Harsh

WJ

 

[cobra9850]

Not sure what you mean then? Harsh

WJ

I would say that Wolves fans would have a lot of empathy for Icedogs fans but comments like that extinguishs any thoughts of that nature.The Wolves have really under performed in the standings but the talent disparity was clear to see , even for fans of the Icedogs.

 

[OMG67]

Not sure what you mean then? Harsh

WJ

I just wanted to point out that I wasn’t trying to disrespect Sudbury by suggesting they suck AND Niagara gave up 13. Just more surprised Sudbury did it and not a powerhouse. At least if a powerhouse did it it would be somewhat justified. But, for another sub-.500 team to do it is even more shocking and embarrassing for Niagara.

 

[Wolfman Jack]

I just wanted to point out that I wasn’t trying to disrespect Sudbury by suggesting they suck AND Niagara gave up 13. Just more surprised Sudbury did it and not a powerhouse. At least if a powerhouse did it it would be somewhat justified. But, for another sub-.500 team to do it is even more shocking and embarrassing for Niagara.

Fair enough!

WJ

 

[HUSH10]

Future Memorial Cup host?

 

[OMG67]

Future Memorial Cup host?

There is 100% no doubt that Niagara is a future Memorial Cup host. Just not next year.

 

[HUSH10]

There is 100% no doubt that Niagara is a future Memorial Cup host. Just not next year.

Valid and agreed

 

[three dog night]

Hopefully this is rock bottom

 

[Lycanthrope]

I would say that Wolves fans would have a lot of empathy for Icedogs fans but comments like that extinguishs any thoughts of that nature.The Wolves have really under performed in the standings but the talent disparity was clear to see , even for fans of the Icedogs.

I’m not sure whose comment you’re referring to, but I didn’t read any cheap shots by any Wolves fan. You sound like you know hockey and can appreciate talent. Fact is the Wolves don’t belong at the bottom of the standings and I think easier for some to downplay things and keep reminding themselves that the Wolves are at the bottom of the standings and only scored a lot of goals against another team even lower in the standings, rather than to accept the uncomfortable thought that the Wolves who as you said have been under performing just might be quite a mouthful for some teams who fancy themselves front runners down the stretch.
Ive said not long ago there would be some long nights for other teams on Elgin and they’ll be more.

 

[OHL4Life]

Hopefully this is rock bottom

heard that two weeks ago.

remember when we all said over the summer that this was going to be a gong show, well, welcome to the gong show

 

[HockeyPops]

At least with a gong show, you can be saved by the gong.

 

[Dog Fan]

It all started with a lack of a GM. If ownership had brought in a qualified GM shortly after they had bought the team, he would have had the opportunity to see the assets he had during training camp and made decisions from there. The decisions made by our current GM (owner) were in haste and have proven to be dreadful.

 

[OMG67]

It all started with a lack of a GM. If ownership had brought in a qualified GM shortly after they had bought the team, he would have had the opportunity to see the assets he had during training camp and made decisions from there. The decisions made by our current GM (owner) were in haste and have proven to be dreadful.

It is tough to turnover so many bodies at one time. It was definitely a risk but it was a risk they were willing to make.

In hindsight, it was clearly a mistake. But, on the bright side, you have an owner that isn’t satisfied and is willing to make moves regardless of whether they are the right moves. You cannot understate the value in that.

If you look at each of the moves made as an individual move, the majority of them were good moves. Players were added at a reasonable price. The problem is there were too many of them and they were unable to sign their 1st rounder.

Coaching is a different story. One that has been exhaustively covered already.

 

[Dog Fan]

It is tough to turnover so many bodies at one time. It was definitely a risk but it was a risk they were willing to make.

In hindsight, it was clearly a mistake. But, on the bright side, you have an owner that isn’t satisfied and is willing to make moves regardless of whether they are the right moves. You cannot understate the value in that.

If you look at each of the moves made as an individual move, the majority of them were good moves. Players were added at a reasonable price. The problem is there were too many of them and they were unable to sign their 1st rounder.

Coaching is a different story. One that has been exhaustively covered already.

I understand what you are saying. However, patience would have been prudent. The trades were hasty, the first coach was a mistake, the scouting team put in place is a team that failed in Brantford. How would you suggest we have confidence in any trade he makes from this point going forward?

 

[OMG67]

I understand what you are saying. However, patience would have been prudent. The trades were hasty, the first coach was a mistake, the scouting team put in place is a team that failed in Brantford. How would you suggest we have confidence in any trade he makes from this point going forward?

I think two OA trades were warranted for sure. I could see maybe keeping one spot open going into the season.

My issue was Zito, Dann etc all. Maybe add one of those guys so you have three veterans coming in and then take some time to assess the situation and adjust as needed in season.

The other guy punch is Dickinson. It is great to get the high comp pick next year plus all those extra picks but you need to build a reputation so you can take advantage. It will be difficult for Niagara to take the best available players next draft because he cannot claim defection two seasons in a row.

 

[OHL4Life]

It is tough to turnover so many bodies at one time. It was definitely a risk but it was a risk they were willing to make.

In hindsight, it was clearly a mistake. But, on the bright side, you have an owner that isn’t satisfied and is willing to make moves regardless of whether they are the right moves. You cannot understate the value in that.

If you look at each of the moves made as an individual move, the majority of them were good moves. Players were added at a reasonable price. The problem is there were too many of them and they were unable to sign their 1st rounder.

Coaching is a different story. One that has been exhaustively covered already.

Im not sure what trades he made where under value. maybe the dann trade but he has struggled significantly since that trade.

 

[dirty12]

Im not sure what trades he made where under value. maybe the dann trade but he has struggled significantly since that trade.

The trade for Papais for no good reason aside, Dann was the least effective acquisition imo.
A 19 yr old goal scorer for Fimis-Castle and the PP was a nice idea, but there are 16 & 17 yr old LWs playing better hockey for Niagara. Did Dann play RW for Sarnia?

 

[OMG67]

Im not sure what trades he made where under value. maybe the dann trade but he has struggled significantly since that trade.

Trades and grades chronologically:

1> David Jesus (3rd and 5th)
Great Trade. I give that an ”A.” Jesus is a good d-Man and really steady. A strong add
2> Gaidamak (4th)
I didn't understand this deal...at all. It was only a 4th but he is Russian and there were issues with some Russians because of what is going on. Plus his 2nd half in Ottawa was putrid. Total “D”
3> Papais (3rd and 4th)
Another good deal. Decent OA Forward. Not a bad cost. Possible point per game guy. Just didn’t work out. Grade “B”
4> Ribeau (3rd & 4th)
Why make this deal? They added Jesus. They added an OA forward in Papais. There was no need to go here at all. This is where things tart to go off the rails. The cost of acquisition was fine but why? Grade”C”
5> Zito (2nd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, cond 4th and cond 5th)
What the hell is this deal? I assume the conditionals are him playing an OA season. That’s fine but if you are giving conditionals for OA seasons then why so much up front with two 2nds? This is a horrible deal. For this to work out they’d need Zito to play as a 19 and 20 year old and both years would need to be 80+ point type seasons. Very possible but mitigate the risk with one of the 2nds as a conditional. Grade “D”
6> Dann (2nd, 2nd, 5th)
Much better deal than the Zito deal because at least there are no conditionals for an OA season. But, there is a difference between a line driver and a passenger. Dann is a passenger, a complimentary piece. If you are going to start paying two 2nds+ for a forward, then make sure it is a player that drives the line or at least be a centre. Grade “B”

At this point I question what the hell is going on. I get adding two OA’s (not 3). I get adding a 19 year old forward. But at this point you really need to stop. Adding way too much without getting a sense of how the pieces fit together. It isn’t a video game.

7> Great return for Dickinson “A+”
8> William Stewart (12th)
Meh. Whatever. No grade required
9> Runco (Cond 15th)
See #8
10> Klein (12th)
See #8
11> Leblanc’s (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th)
Great deal. Two serviceable players. Neither great nor bad cost. Grade “B”
12> Keane (2nd, 3rd, Leonard)
Ok. I like Keene but this is the exact reason why you keep an OA spot open. Assess your needs and adjust. The return is sorta fine, maybe a bit too much at that stage of the season but it also means you are trading away one of th players you traded good assets for to make room. So Papais leaves and you lost the 3rd and 4th and only regain a 5th. That makes this move costly when you consider the opportunity costs added in with the acquisition of Papais.

At this point it is game over. Roster churn is in full tire fire mode.

The Leblanc deal screams out as the reason why you don’t need to acquire so much all at once int he offseason. Opportunities come available during the season and you have enough information regarding the needs of the team so as to inform proper decisions.

If you look at each deal individually, they aren’t bad. I mean, I think the Zito deal is bad. Too many picks for him. The Dann deal is too much because, again, he doesn’t drive his line. He is a complimentary piece. You have to have the centre or else he’s not as effective. If you acquire Zito, don’t acquire Dann. See what you have that can work and make adjustments.

On the aggregate, it is too much. Too many pieces to configure. This approach doesn't tend to win at this level. I can’t argue with the individual trades though. On the Aggregate, the value out vs value in is good. Of course when you make this many moves, not all of them will work so not a big deal from that perspective by why so many moves so quick?

 

[Uncle Slick]

Trades and grades chronologically:

1> David Jesus (3rd and 5th)
Great Trade. I give that an ”A.” Jesus is a good d-Man and really steady. A strong add
2> Gaidamak (4th)
I didn't understand this deal...at all. It was only a 4th but he is Russian and there were issues with some Russians because of what is going on. Plus his 2nd half in Ottawa was putrid. Total “D”
3> Papais (3rd and 4th)
Another good deal. Decent OA Forward. Not a bad cost. Possible point per game guy. Just didn’t work out. Grade “B”
4> Ribeau (3rd & 4th)
Why make this deal? They added Jesus. They added an OA forward in Papais. There was no need to go here at all. This is where things tart to go off the rails. The cost of acquisition was fine but why? Grade”C”
5> Zito (2nd, 2nd, 4th, 6th, cond 4th and cond 5th)
What the hell is this deal? I assume the conditionals are him playing an OA season. That’s fine but if you are giving conditionals for OA seasons then why so much up front with two 2nds? This is a horrible deal. For this to work out they’d need Zito to play as a 19 and 20 year old and both years would need to be 80+ point type seasons. Very possible but mitigate the risk with one of the 2nds as a conditional. Grade “D”
6> Dann (2nd, 2nd, 5th)
Much better deal than the Zito deal because at least there are no conditionals for an OA season. But, there is a difference between a line driver and a passenger. Dann is a passenger, a complimentary piece. If you are going to start paying two 2nds+ for a forward, then make sure it is a player that drives the line or at least be a centre. Grade “B”

At this point I question what the hell is going on. I get adding two OA’s (not 3). I get adding a 19 year old forward. But at this point you really need to stop. Adding way too much without getting a sense of how the pieces fit together. It isn’t a video game.

7> Great return for Dickinson “A+”
8> William Stewart (12th)
Meh. Whatever. No grade required
9> Runco (Cond 15th)
See #8
10> Klein (12th)
See #8
11> Leblanc’s (2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th)
Great deal. Two serviceable players. Neither great nor bad cost. Grade “B”
12> Keane (2nd, 3rd, Leonard)
Ok. I like Keene but this is the exact reason why you keep an OA spot open. Assess your needs and adjust. The return is sorta fine, maybe a bit too much at that stage of the season but it also means you are trading away one of th players you traded good assets for to make room. So Papais leaves and you lost the 3rd and 4th and only regain a 5th. That makes this move costly when you consider the opportunity costs added in with the acquisition of Papais.

At this point it is game over. Roster churn is in full tire fire mode.

The Leblanc deal screams out as the reason why you don’t need to acquire so much all at once int he offseason. Opportunities come available during the season and you have enough information regarding the needs of the team so as to inform proper decisions.

If you look at each deal individually, they aren’t bad. I mean, I think the Zito deal is bad. Too many picks for him. The Dann deal is too much because, again, he doesn’t drive his line. He is a complimentary piece. You have to have the centre or else he’s not as effective. If you acquire Zito, don’t acquire Dann. See what you have that can work and make adjustments.

On the aggregate, it is too much. Too many pieces to configure. This approach doesn't tend to win at this level. I can’t argue with the individual trades though. On the Aggregate, the value out vs value in is good. Of course when you make this many moves, not all of them will work so not a big deal from that perspective by why so many moves so quick?

Nicely stated, terrific to read logic with reason.

Its going to be a significant challenge to get the talented 2023 draft picks to commit, churning a roster while transitioning between ownership gong shows is turning into a train wreck heading for the tire fire. Future players/agents see it and will be positioning to avoid Niagara.

Its going to get worse before it gets better, dobbelaer remains on the step side of the learning curve working his way through his GM apprenticeship.