Niagara IceDogs 2022-23 Off-Season Thread

[OMG67]

Power skating clinic for Joe Scho; you might be stuck in the ‘70s. I can tell you at least as far back as 2005 that parents of 25 kids in an area with two AAA bantam (and minor midget I should add) programs were shelling out $5K a pop for professional training sessions, many of them two sessions in the off-season. That is in addition to 2 week hockey camp and a power skating clinic. A parent of a goalie might feel compelled to shell out an additional $5K for private coaching to keep up with Joe Schmo.
Parents dig deep so that one day the child might fulfill the parents dream.
And yeah, kids can be taught how to be winners. Keefe turned a floundering hounds team within 3 weeks, he had that team playing 0.667 by week 5 or 6. Erie dominated with Knaublach behind the bench, but not without. Richmond makes pros out of kids with about half the draft capital of the ‘67s. Almost all agents/parents want their kids in Hunter’s program. The ‘67s success is much more due to Tourigny & Cameron than all other factors combined imo.

Don’t get me wrong, I 100% agree that coaching is an integral part of it. I’ve made no bones about that repeatedly. My only point is that it isn’t the only part. You need kids that are receptive to your program and you need to provide them with the requisite support and training to couple with it otherwise it is just words. You can’t walk into a room half filled with players not capable of playing at this level and make then winners and feel like winners. It isn’t a Hollywood movie. You have to have something to start with.

A strong approach is to put jobs up for grabs and let the kids work for them. Let them earn their ice time. Kids that don’t buy into the program get the boot. My whole issue with Niagara was they didn’t do that. They made an immediate decision on the status of their team and in the offseason acquired a bunch of players and anointed them status by way of trade value to acquire. You don’t typically spend what Niagara spent only to now let them fight for jobs.

Poor leadership above the bench leads to poor leadership on the bench. That leadership above the bench has a significant impact on the ice. But you can’t be a leader barking orders either. The leadership above the bench has to put in the effort and demonstrate ability as well. That starts with access to an elite training and development program. I understand what you are saying about “some” Bantam “AAA” teams and players getting what those kids and parents consider elite training but here is a wide difference between what a Bantam team gets for $5k per player per year and what the NHL provides. OHL teams have the status and ability to provide at least close to what the NhL provides And much of it can be through Sponsorship opportunities etc. There are no Bantam teams working with mental coaches on an individual one on one basis. there are no Bantam teams working with players individually to help the individual player reach their peak potential. They join cookie cutter programs designed for the group.

 

[ohloutsider]

Don’t get me wrong, I 100% agree that coaching is an integral part of it. I’ve made no bones about that repeatedly. My only point is that it isn’t the only part. You need kids that are receptive to your program and you need to provide them with the requisite support and training to couple with it otherwise it is just words. You can’t walk into a room half filled with players not capable of playing at this level and make then winners and feel like winners. It isn’t a Hollywood movie. You have to have something to start with.

A strong approach is to put jobs up for grabs and let the kids work for them. Let them earn their ice time. Kids that don’t buy into the program get the boot. My whole issue with Niagara was they didn’t do that. They made an immediate decision on the status of their team and in the offseason acquired a bunch of players and anointed them status by way of trade value to acquire. You don’t typically spend what Niagara spent only to now let them fight for jobs.

Poor leadership above the bench leads to poor leadership on the bench. That leadership above the bench has a significant impact on the ice. But you can’t be a leader barking orders either. The leadership above the bench has to put in the effort and demonstrate ability as well. That starts with access to an elite training and development program. I understand what you are saying about “some” Bantam “AAA” teams and players getting what those kids and parents consider elite training but here is a wide difference between what a Bantam team gets for $5k per player per year and what the NHL provides. OHL teams have the status and ability to provide at least close to what the NhL provides And much of it can be through Sponsorship opportunities etc. There are no Bantam teams working with mental coaches on an individual one on one basis. there are no Bantam teams working with players individually to help the individual player reach their peak potential. They join cookie cutter programs designed for the group.

Been reading through these comments and my question is what OHL team does not provide the programs you are talking about? I think in today's hockey world most if not all OHL teams are providing a number of extended programs.

 

[dirty12]

Don’t get me wrong, I 100% agree that coaching is an integral part of it. I’ve made no bones about that repeatedly. My only point is that it isn’t the only part. You need kids that are receptive to your program and you need to provide them with the requisite support and training to couple with it otherwise it is just words. You can’t walk into a room half filled with players not capable of playing at this level and make then winners and feel like winners. It isn’t a Hollywood movie. You have to have something to start with.

A strong approach is to put jobs up for grabs and let the kids work for them. Let them earn their ice time. Kids that don’t buy into the program get the boot. My whole issue with Niagara was they didn’t do that. They made an immediate decision on the status of their team and in the offseason acquired a bunch of players and anointed them status by way of trade value to acquire. You don’t typically spend what Niagara spent only to now let them fight for jobs.

Poor leadership above the bench leads to poor leadership on the bench. That leadership above the bench has a significant impact on the ice. But you can’t be a leader barking orders either. The leadership above the bench has to put in the effort and demonstrate ability as well. That starts with access to an elite training and development program. I understand what you are saying about “some” Bantam “AAA” teams and players getting what those kids and parents consider elite training but here is a wide difference between what a Bantam team gets for $5k per player per year and what the NHL provides. OHL teams have the status and ability to provide at least close to what the NhL provides And much of it can be through Sponsorship opportunities etc. There are no Bantam teams working with mental coaches on an individual one on one basis. there are no Bantam teams working with players individually to help the individual player reach their peak potential. They join cookie cutter programs designed for the group.

The fitness training I speak of is headed by a certified professional with some aid from former NHL, OHL, JrA players.
My god child plays central Florida elite U12 basketball. I will guess partly due to ‘charitable tax breaks’ his full-time coaches are former NCAA coaches and/or players. They have rotating G league instructors. They have 2X/wk fitness training about as good as it gets. My god son’s free of charge personal shooting coach is a bench player for the Magic.
The ‘67s really do absolutely nothing out of the ordinary

 

[OMG67]

Been reading through these comments and my question is what OHL team does not provide the programs you are talking about? I think in today's hockey world most if not all OHL teams are providing a number of extended programs.

Then I guess it is just another example of how poor teams continue to widen the gap because many teams are simply not anywhere fit enough to play agaisnt the teams that must take it more seriously than others.

I know for a fact that when Tourigny came in, they made a point of highlighting the emphasis on NHL LEvel training and the higher expectations. They brought in a bunch or specialists in that area. I guess Ottawa was behind the curve leading up to 2017. I guess all teams have it and hardly any of them take proper advantage…. When Junior players come back from NHL camps and say things like, I now see what it takes in the weight room when I watch the pro players and now I know the emphasis on diet must all be flat out lies. Clearly, they all already knew it all and do it all but just use ignorance as an excuse.

 

[dirty12]

Then I guess it is just another example of how poor teams continue to widen the gap because many teams are simply not anywhere fit enough to play agaisnt the teams that must take it more seriously than others.

I know for a fact that when Tourigny came in, they made a point of highlighting the emphasis on NHL LEvel training and the higher expectations. They brought in a bunch or specialists in that area. I guess Ottawa was behind the curve leading up to 2017. I guess all teams have it and hardly any of them take proper advantage…. When Junior players come back from NHL camps and say things like, I now see what it takes in the weight room when I watch the pro players and now I know the emphasis on diet must all be flat out lies. Clearly, they all already knew it all and do it all but just use ignorance as an excuse.

Too much.
Training with 17-18 yr old mates under the guidance of a 45 yr old pro instructor would not have quite the same impact as working out between Drysaitl & McDavid.
Heck, Gretzky & Messier were ashamed after working out with Lindros.

 

[OMG67]

Too much.
Training with 17-18 yr old mates under the guidance of a 45 yr old pro instructor would not have quite the same impact as working out between Drysaitl & McDavid.
Heck, Gretzky & Messier were ashamed after working out with Lindros.

Believe what you wish. I’ve tried to explain why the 67’s since Tourigny has come to town had a significant turnaround and it wasn’t just the tutelage of Tourigny now followed by Cameron. If you choose to believe success in the OHL comes down to a coach and a scout with the rest being insignificant than so be it.

 

[HockeyPops]

No cycle was suggested by me. Just very much like Erie, Soo, Flint, now Sudbury 2018-22; just 5 looooong years to rebuild to the inevitable point the team will have a relatively long period of undetermined success. It should be longer without serious all-in attempts at a championship.

I don't put Soo in that category, sorry. Soo was contending the year we were shut down.

 

[dirty12]

I don't put Soo in that category, sorry. Soo was contending the year we were shut down.

From 2018-22, it was the wolves with 3 high picks. I think it is inevitable that wolves will have their turn at the top like the others mentioned. There could have been an epic battle between Flint, Saginaw, Soo, Windsor for the west division that cancelled season.

Edit: inclusion of OMG is by accident

 

[HockeyPops]

@dirty12 Maybe I misunderstand your position re: the Soo. From my perspective, the Soo has built a highly competitive team every 2-3 years. 17-18, 20-21, 23-24?

17-18 conference champs
18-19 second round
19-20 down year
20-21 covid shutdown, planned to contend
21-22 second round
22-23 down year
23-24 ?

 

[dirty12]

@dirty12 Maybe I misunderstand your position re: the Soo. From my perspective, the Soo has built a highly competitive team every 2-3 years. 17-18, 20-21, 23-24?

17-18 conference champs
18-19 second round
19-20 down year
20-21 covid shutdown, planned to contend
21-22 second round
22-23 down year
23-24 ?

I don’t disagree. And maybe you’re missing the Sudbury 2018-22 part. The way the team was re-built was similar to Erie, Ottawa, Flint, hopefully Sudbury; sells and low finishes.
The youth and picks left behind when (Torre?) had completed the tear down on his way out …Idk, just a larger stockpile than I had ever noticed I guess.

 

[three dog night]

Official bud in for the Memorial Cuo Niagara IceDogs Announce Intention to Bid for 2024 Memorial Cup – Niagara IceDogs

 

[OHL 17]

I wonder if Zito is happy with his play this year!

 

[three dog night]

I wonder if Zito is happy with his play this year!

Don’t know but he looks fine.

 

[Uncle Slick]

Don’t get me wrong, I 100% agree that coaching is an integral part of it. I’ve made no bones about that repeatedly. My only point is that it isn’t the only part. You need kids that are receptive to your program and you need to provide them with the requisite support and training to couple with it otherwise it is just words. You can’t walk into a room half filled with players not capable of playing at this level and make then winners and feel like winners. It isn’t a Hollywood movie. You have to have something to start with.

A strong approach is to put jobs up for grabs and let the kids work for them. Let them earn their ice time. Kids that don’t buy into the program get the boot. My whole issue with Niagara was they didn’t do that. They made an immediate decision on the status of their team and in the offseason acquired a bunch of players and anointed them status by way of trade value to acquire. You don’t typically spend what Niagara spent only to now let them fight for jobs.

Poor leadership above the bench leads to poor leadership on the bench. That leadership above the bench has a significant impact on the ice. But you can’t be a leader barking orders either. The leadership above the bench has to put in the effort and demonstrate ability as well. That starts with access to an elite training and development program. I understand what you are saying about “some” Bantam “AAA” teams and players getting what those kids and parents consider elite training but here is a wide difference between what a Bantam team gets for $5k per player per year and what the NHL provides. OHL teams have the status and ability to provide at least close to what the NhL provides And much of it can be through Sponsorship opportunities etc. There are no Bantam teams working with mental coaches on an individual one on one basis. there are no Bantam teams working with players individually to help the individual player reach their peak potential. They join cookie cutter programs designed for the group.

Good points.

The learning curve throughout junior hockey can be unforgiving and sometimes cruel.

You've identified issues Dobbeler has failed to comprehend and to which he's proven to be the slow learner.

Nothing in his hockey past establishes a development culture let alone an investment to develop players nor enhance his ability to make a compelling pitch in recruiting talented players. His current 99'ers roster is pretty much all pay-to-play players, to which he continues to provide little in terms of that "support and training." Talented dedicated players have taken notice and have been avoiding his teams for a couple of seasons unless its their last/only option.

Other OJHL clubs also getting pushback with potential trades as players/representatives are threatening to not report to his teams in the event they are traded. My nephew is one of those players and he was adamant that he wouldn't report even though it gets him closer to home and school.

Its evident that we're seeing the absence of leadership within the hockey ops that is the Ice Dogs.
We're also seeing a club where there is also an absence of skill and talent on the ice and behind the bench, and its certainly being widely discussed throughout the 2023 draft class.

Obviously a question that Ice Dog scouts have to ask is, "will you report/sign?"

Dobbelaer bought the Burke gong show and now he's driving it towards the tire fire.

Unfortunately, its probably a scenario that gets a lot worse before it starts to get better.

 

[Generalsupdates]

Something to keep on the back burner for now:

Ryan Roobroeck is the clear #1 overall pick in the coming draft. Niagara is currently dead last in the OHL. Would he commit to the IceDogs after they gave up on his brother and shipped him out? That could be a wild draft story if NIA doesn’t pick it up in the 2nd half

 

[three dog night]

Something to keep on the back burner for now:

Ryan Roobroeck is the clear #1 overall pick in the coming draft. Niagara is currently dead last in the OHL. Would he commit to the IceDogs after they gave up on his brother and shipped him out? That could be a wild draft story if NIA doesn’t pick it up in the 2nd half

interesting are they doing the lottery thing again.

 

[Drop the Puck]

Paper Bag Night here in Niagara to the first 500 fans.

 

[Generalsupdates]

interesting are they doing the lottery thing again.

Yeah I think so

 

[bcspragu]

Yeah I think so

Which means Niagara will pick 4th again

 

[Generalsupdates]

Which means Niagara will pick 4th again

True lol

 

[three dog night]

Icedogs dumped Barrie tonight on home ice 7 to 4 before an euthastic crowd of 4,220 fans largest home crowd to date. Tge Dogs never trailed in the game Barrie tied it twice. Six different Dogs scored tonight with Sirizottotti scoring twice the second the game winner.Cardwell scored three for Barrie. Next game tomorrow night against North Bay on Teddy Bear toss night.

 

[Drop the Puck]

Game Nets vs. Practice Nets

Is it me or do the game nets appear to be the practise nets? The posts are skate chipped and the nets have way too many lack puck marks.

Anyone sitting behind the home end confirm?

 

[sbpointer]

Something to keep on the back burner for now:

Ryan Roobroeck is the clear #1 overall pick in the coming draft. Niagara is currently dead last in the OHL. Would he commit to the IceDogs after they gave up on his brother and shipped him out? That could be a wild draft story if NIA doesn’t pick it up in the 2nd half

London will trade for him if NIA want to pick him

 

[Drop the Puck]

London will trade for him if NIA want to pick him

Rinse & Repeat.

Something to keep on the back burner for now:

Ryan Roobroeck is the clear #1 overall pick in the coming draft. Niagara is currently dead last in the OHL. Would he commit to the IceDogs after they gave up on his brother and shipped him out? That could be a wild draft story if NIA doesn’t pick it up in the 2nd half

I hear he is a “stud” like his older brother.

 

[Generalsupdates]

I hear he is a “stud” like his older brother.

You were right about Niagara being good this year and the owner/GM not being a bad pick for the job