NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[Killion]

Killion,

First off, I enjoy reading your comments and agree with you most of the time (one notable exception - your belief the an NHL franchise could be supported in the Phoenix area, but I digress...)

Your witty comments make me laugh which is always a good thing

I see Battle Born answered your question... and thanks... gotta have fun with life... and ya, I know Im in the minority when it comes to Phoenix & Arizona... will say that Id rather have seen the team leave than having consummated the deals they did with the NHL & IceArizona.... Had an experienced, savvy & honorable ownership group stepped forward and rather than going for Glendales jugular worked out a fair & equitable Lease & Arena Mgmnt Contract, then ya, Im all for it. Market can be resurrected.... But this? These guys?.... Not seeing it, appalled really at the nature of the entire arrangement, and their still on the take... but... back to Vegas, and its my general philosophy that hockey, the NHL, can be sold anywhere, supported, successful. All comes down to ownership & management.

 

[Fugu]

Killion,

First off, I enjoy reading your comments and agree with you most of the time (one notable exception - your belief the an NHL franchise could be supported in the Phoenix area, but I digress...)

Your witty comments make me laugh which is always a good thing

Do you know if this ticket drive is like the Jets ticket drive where you have to make an X-year commitment right up front?

Interesting. In one of the other threads, another poster mentioned he felt Killion was anti Arizona.

 

[Killion]

Interesting. In one of the other threads, another poster mentioned he felt Killion was anti Arizona.

... am vacillating duplicitous rogue.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

Interesting. In one of the other threads, another poster mentioned he felt Killion was anti Arizona.

@Fugu, if that is the case, the poster has not been following Killion at all. And I do agree with Killion that it does come down to ownership...

Perhaps if the Yotes had a an owner with very deep pockets (and not afraid to lose a few $$$ in the process) - maybe, just maybe a franchise in the Desert could have been successful.

As it stands right now, it hasn't been financially viable for almost 20 years. (I can't believe it's been that - insert an inappropriate word that starts with "F" here") - long...

That is the reality of the Yotes. Not meant to be a shot against the die-hard fans - there just are not enough of them that can afford ticket prices with today's NHL salaries to break even.

If Las Vegas can make it work - good on them. I remain skeptical.

@Killion. Man of the world... Who is the person in my avatar. And how old was he? This will be a true test for you ...

 

[BattleBorn]

Thanks for the info Battle. Good luck to the hockey fans of Las Vegas.

P.S. You may notice that I still have a burr in my saddle (and yes, I do have horses), from losing the Jets 1.0 to Phoenix in 1996. I still don't believe that Phoenix/Glendale has proved that they can support an NHL franchise. Maybe Las Vegas can - time will tell.

Thanks, I'm hoping we can. I really believe we can. Biggest difference between PHX and LV is the lack of other options. There's some hardcore fans like myself out here, but there's plenty that will turn into fans as soon as the team hits the ice.

-There's no football. NFL isn't coming, UNLV is a joke. (PHX has the Cardinals and ASU Sun Devils.)
-There's no baseball. MLB isn't coming. (PHX obviously has the DBacks)
-Basketball, here there's the Rebels, but they're in a pretty low level college sports conference. NBA isn't likely to come. Bigger fish to fry, and there's a pretty sour taste in Vegas' (and especially MGM, the owner of the arena's) mouth from the All Star Game here a few years ago. (PHX has the Suns, and once again, the Sun Devils.)

The arena's going to be in the resort corridor and in a nice new development called "The Park," so there's going to be plenty of pre/post game entertainment available within walking distance and it won't be surrounded by parking lots.

It's not a traditional hockey market, but if there's one of those that can support a team, it's got to be here with the arena that's being built. They will likely need to be pretty competitive within a few years to really build the base once the honeymoon is over, though. They really need to capture the local hockey fan's interest and get them over their current team affiliation. I'm ready to turn my Blackhawks card in for a Las Vegas Whatevers card on day one, but I don't know how many people are the same as me.

 

[LeafShark]

Pierre LeBrun tells us "there is no Deadline.... going into September" etc. I was under the impression there was/is in fact a Deadline, that Gary Bettman wanted this wrapped up no later than the end of May ahead of the scheduled NHL BOG's Meeting no?..... Thats been the gist of a lot of the conversation here. That an announcement could come during the Playoffs, during or after, coinciding with the BOG's Meeting. Theres no way this is going to take longer than a few weeks max from todays date to hit the targeted 10,000. No idea what LeBrun is on about there suggesting no deadline... that Foley might not reach 10,000 until September. Crazy talk.

I was under the impression that they would cancel the ticket drive at the end of March if they didn't hit 10,000. We still don't have any new numbers, but if they are anything over 8,000 like I think they are, they are still selling tickets at a very good pace. The last 1,000 tickets are the easiest to sell. If they absolutely have to, they'll ask the casinos to buy tickets to cover the rest IMO, but I don't think that will be necessary. While most expansion teams from 1995-2000 had a full season to hit about 12k with an announced team, Vegas has half a season to hit 10k with no guarantee of a team. During Nashville's expansion, they couldn't get over the hump until the last day and sold over 500 tickets that day. They are doing well all things considered. It was never going to sell as fast as Winnipeg.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

Thanks, I'm hoping we can. I really believe we can. Biggest difference between PHX and LV is the lack of other options. There's some hardcore fans like myself out here, but there's plenty that will turn into fans as soon as the team hits the ice.

-There's no football. NFL isn't coming, UNLV is a joke. (PHX has the Cardinals and ASU Sun Devils.)
-There's no baseball. MLB isn't coming. (PHX obviously has the DBacks)
-Basketball, here there's the Rebels, but they're in a pretty low level college sports conference. NBA isn't likely to come. Bigger fish to fry, and there's a pretty sour taste in Vegas' mouth from the All Star Game here a few years ago. (PHX has the Suns, and once again, the Sun Devils.)

The arena's going to be in the resort corridor and in a nice new development called "The Park," so there's going to be plenty of pre/post game entertainment available within walking distance and it won't be surrounded by parking lots.

It's not a traditional hockey market, but if there's one of those that can support a team, it's got to be here with the arena that's being built. They will likely need to be pretty competitive within a few years to really build the base once the honeymoon is over, though. They really need to capture the local hockey fan's interest and get them over their current team affiliation. I'm ready to turn my Blackhawks card in for a Las Vegas Whatevers card on day one, but I don't know how many people are the same as me.

Thanks for the detailed reply Battle. Hope you get the required support for a franchise.

Looking forward to heading down to Vegas "on business" in the next few years to catch a Jets game or two

 

[PCSPounder]

... am vacillating duplicitous rogue.

If you're not careful, you'll end up being my spirit animal.

Don't think the debates here are as painful as the violent battles in my own brain regarding the demographics of Vegas, the arena site, yet "virgin territory." And don't think for a moment that using "virgin territory" in the same sentence as Vegas, while not really planned out at the start, doesn't have me using a grin no Cheshire Cat can muster.

 

[Killion]

If Las Vegas can make it work - good on them. I remain skeptical.

@Killion. Man of the world... Who is the person in my avatar. And how old was he? This will be a true test for you ...

... I see. You like horses, know the story of Seabiscuit right? Was gunna be shot, put out of his misery, loser... until Charles S. Howard was convinced to buy him for 8 grand.... how did that turn out?... Ha?... Jesus wept jimmy.... and that would be Elvis playing baseball there during his military service.... he owned horses as well did Elvis... and possibly a Burger King in Manitoba. but dont worry, secrets safe here.... not the brightest move posting a selfie as yer avy.... still... so, hows trix?... gunna get the band back together Man?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

That is the reality of the Yotes. Not meant to be a shot against the die-hard fans - there just are not enough of them that can afford ticket prices with today's NHL salaries to break even.

That's not the reality of the Coyotes at all, actually; but the Coyotes' actual reality is a) too long to post here, b) not likely to be accepted by people who have made up their minds to believe a certain way, and c) way off topic for this thread.

I honestly am so tired of trying to defend myself and hockey in Arizona that I'm almost burned out on the sport itself. I hope that doesn't happen to guys like BattleBorn and other Vegas hockey fans, but I think they ought to be prepared to fight many of the same battles I've fought ever since 2003, when I first bought season tickets.

The saving grace of Las Vegas is that it will be an expansion team, not a relocated one. At least that way they'll only have to deal with skepticism over the future, and not have to worry about fighting a war on another front against fans of a cuckolded market.

I'll say this, though - if you want an answer about why the NHL will always be struggling to keep up with the NFL, MLB, and NBA, it's because of the ridiculous philosophical war that is perennially waged about who deserves hockey and who doesn't. So long as a belief persists that preaching to the choir is a sound missionary tactic, hockey will suffer.

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

... I see. You like horses, know the story of Seabiscuit right? Was gunna be shot, put out of his misery, loser... until Charles S. Howard was convinced to buy him for 8 grand.... how did that turn out?... Ha?... Jesus wept jimmy.... and that would be Elvis playing baseball there during his military service.... he owned horses as well did Elvis... and possibly a Burger King in Manitoba. but dont worry, secrets safe here.... not the brightest move posting a selfie as yer avy.... still... so, hows trix?... gunna get the band back together Man?

Killion, I love and own horses. Not just like.

Elvis Presley - not during military service from 1958-60 - it's a colorized photo from 1949 when he was 14 years-old playing catch with a friend in Memphis in his friend's back yard. I outwitted Killion !!!

Seabiscuit - that damned movie makes me cry every time...

 

[BattleBorn]

That's not the reality of the Coyotes at all, actually; but the Coyotes' actual reality is a) too long to post here, b) not likely to be accepted by people who have made up their minds to believe a certain way, and c) way off topic for this thread.

I honestly am so tired of trying to defend myself and hockey in Arizona that I'm almost burned out on the sport itself. I hope that doesn't happen to guys like BattleBorn and other Vegas hockey fans, but I think they ought to be prepared to fight many of the same battles I've fought ever since 2003, when I first bought season tickets.

The saving grace of Las Vegas is that it will be an expansion team, not a relocated one. At least that way they'll only have to deal with skepticism over the future, and not have to worry about fighting a war on another front against fans of a cuckolded market.

I'll say this, though - if you want an answer about why the NHL will always be struggling to keep up with the NFL, MLB, and NBA, it's because of the ridiculous philosophical war that is perennially waged about who deserves hockey and who doesn't. So long as a belief persists that preaching to the choir is a sound missionary tactic, hockey will suffer.

I've got a feeling I won't be hanging around the BoH much if/when the team is announced, it's pretty obvious how the cow eats the cabbage for many. This is really the only place to talk Vegas hockey on the internet right now short of the social media stuff, once there's a specific board for the Las Vegas Whatevers I'll likely pull up stakes here and move over there.

I've been here a short time compared to you, I can see how this would start to grind on you after a while.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I've got a feeling I won't be hanging around the BoH much if/when the team is announced, it's pretty obvious how the cow eats the cabbage for many. This is really the only place to talk Vegas hockey on the internet right now short of the social media stuff, once there's a specific board for the Las Vegas Whatevers I'll likely pull up stakes here and move over there.

Probably a good move for your sanity. BoH can be a great place for good discussion but it's an inevitability that even the best discussions tend to get derailed by a small but enormously vocal community of holy warriors.

Good news is that the Las Vegas board should be up and running by training camp. Once it is, we can get down to the business of starting a purely hockey-related rivalry...

I've been here a short time compared to you, I can see how this would start to grind on you after a while.

Well, like I said, you're in a better position than I am - a single-front battle is a lot easier to fight. Just take my comments with a grain of salt - I think I have mild PTSD from the bankruptcy years.

 

[berklon]

I'll say this, though - if you want an answer about why the NHL will always be struggling to keep up with the NFL, MLB, and NBA, it's because of the ridiculous philosophical war that is perennially waged about who deserves hockey and who doesn't. So long as a belief persists that preaching to the choir is a sound missionary tactic, hockey will suffer.

Please explain how peoples opinions on who "deserves" hockey is hurting the league.
There are currently plenty of teams in non-traditional markets, so it's up to those markets to support their teams. Is my opinion of Arizona being a horrible hockey market stopping people in Arizona from going to the games? If anything, it should be motivating them to prove me wrong. The markets that "deserve" a team are the markets that support the team. It's as simple as that.

It just sounds like the typical response of blaming everything else to defend a bad market.

 

[Killion]

Killion, I love and own horses. Not just like... I outwitted Killion !!!

.... indeed you did. By 7yrs or so huh? Oh well. Elvis didnt much like baseball, more into football & boxing.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

There are currently plenty of teams in non-traditional markets, so it's up to those markets to support their teams. Is my opinion of Arizona being a horrible hockey market stopping people in Arizona from going to the games? If anything, it should be motivating them to prove me wrong. The markets that "deserve" a team are the markets that support the team. It's as simple as that.

If I look at a Maple Leafs game and see giant chunks of empty seats in the lower bowl, then in theory I can voice an opinion that Toronto is a terrible NHL market because nobody shows up.

That's every bit as valid an opinion as yours is about Arizona being a horrible hockey market, and every bit as void of proper context.

 

[Killion]

People?...

Las Vegas, Deuces Wild... lets reel it back in from Arizona, PNW & Canadian climes please.

 

[cutchemist42]

Killion, I love and own horses. Not just like.

Elvis Presley - not during military service from 1958-60 - it's a colorized photo from 1949 when he was 14 years-old playing catch with a friend in Memphis in his friend's back yard. I outwitted Killion !!!

Seabiscuit - that damned movie makes me cry every time...

I still watch the montage segment from that movie about Seabiscuit's early life every now and then.

You own off track thoroughbreds? Another breed? Racehorses?

 

[Acesolid]

Meh, I dont get the hate against a team in Vegas from a "wants a team in Canada instead" perspective.

Is it an almost certain disaster in the medium/long term? In my opinion yes. Is it a joke and a travesty? Yes, I think so.

However, it means one less contender in front of Quebec City for a team. And with Seattle being quite at a standstill. I do believe we have good odds at being expansion partners / a relocation target.

And honestly, it's obvious to me that Quebecor would pay 500 millions for an expansion team, even if it had to play in the Central division for a few years until everything got sorted out (like Winnipeg). I don't see how the NHL could say no to that in the middle of expansion negotiations.

And even if Seattle got everything sorted out and is team 2. Like Mckenzie said; a 3 teams expansion is possible.

And even if there's just an unlikely single team expansion (unlikely), it puts us even more in front in case of relocation. So it's all good for me in my opinion.

 

[The Duck Knight]

It's been a while since their last update. I'd like to see if they hit 8k tickets yet.

They almost surely have. When Foley was on local news on I think, the 2nd, they were at 7800.

 

[sparkychewbarky]

Is it an almost certain disaster in the medium/long term? In my opinion yes. Is it a joke and a travesty? Yes, I think so.

I'm not so sure about the "joke and travesty" thing, Ace.

The only pro-game in a city of about 2 million, that welcomes over 40 million visitors a year...
A passionate, billionaire owner, in a brand new building...
Cross-promotions, events, and marketing possibilities coming out the ying-yang...

Vegas intrigues me.

 

[Acesolid]

I'm not so sure about the "joke and travesty" thing, Ace.

The only pro-game in a city of about 2 million, that welcomes over 40 million visitors a year...
A passionate, billionaire owner, in a brand new building...
Cross-promotions, events, and marketing possibilities coming out the ying-yang...

Vegas intrigues me.

I'll admit I'm biaised. But putting a team in the middle of the desert in a town that's built around prostitution and stealing money from irrational people trough gambling and slot machines (and was built by organised crime and corruption) doesn't seem like the best thing for the NHL's image, or hockey.

But, like I said. I'm doubly biaised against Vegas. I live in a Hockey mad place without a team.... and I worked for a year in one of Quebec's government sponsored gambling and drinking dens in Quebec City while at University. And it still sickens me to this day how I helped the government rob poor, naive uneducated people dry while feeding them alcohol and chips.

And honestly since the money in Vegas casinos isn't going to the government, Las Vegas sickens me even more.

But whatever, I guess nobody cares about decency anymore. Or people's love for Hockey. It's all about ole Uncle Gary giving his old Maloof NBA pals a hockey team to play with!

Pffff... Like I said, I'm biaised, and you can call me a moral crusader and a Conservative fool, but Las Vegas sickens me. And if you ask me it's no surprise Bettman and the Maloofs love the damned place.

 

[Jett Jagaar]

Thanks, I'm hoping we can. I really believe we can. Biggest difference between PHX and LV is the lack of other options. There's some hardcore fans like myself out here, but there's plenty that will turn into fans as soon as the team hits the ice.

-There's no football. NFL isn't coming, UNLV is a joke. (PHX has the Cardinals and ASU Sun Devils.)
-There's no baseball. MLB isn't coming. (PHX obviously has the DBacks)
-Basketball, here there's the Rebels, but they're in a pretty low level college sports conference. NBA isn't likely to come. Bigger fish to fry, and there's a pretty sour taste in Vegas' (and especially MGM, the owner of the arena's) mouth from the All Star Game here a few years ago. (PHX has the Suns, and once again, the Sun Devils.)

The arena's going to be in the resort corridor and in a nice new development called "The Park," so there's going to be plenty of pre/post game entertainment available within walking distance and it won't be surrounded by parking lots.

It's not a traditional hockey market, but if there's one of those that can support a team, it's got to be here with the arena that's being built. They will likely need to be pretty competitive within a few years to really build the base once the honeymoon is over, though. They really need to capture the local hockey fan's interest and get them over their current team affiliation. I'm ready to turn my Blackhawks card in for a Las Vegas Whatevers card on day one, but I don't know how many people are the same as me.

Agreed on all points (except the Mountain West isn't THAT bad )

 

[sabresfan65]

I'll admit I'm biaised. But putting a team in the middle of the desert in a town that's built around prostitution and stealing money from irrational people trough gambling and slot machines (and was built by organised crime and corruption) doesn't seem like the best thing for the NHL's image, or hockey.

One thing about this. Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas, just as it is in nearly every other place in the US. Prostitution is legal in all Nevada counties except Clark (where Las Vegas is) and Washoe (Reno).

 

[BattleBorn]

One thing about this. Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas, just as it is in nearly every other place in the US. Prostitution is legal in all Nevada counties except Clark (where Las Vegas is) and Washoe (Reno).

That's the only issue you found in his post?