NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[sabresfan65]

That's the only issue you found in his post?

I guess that is the educator in me, I want to correct misinformation without crushing a student's ability to think for himself. Most of the rest of his post was opinion. He has a right to his opinion whether it is different than mine or not. I suppose I could have brought up the Casino tax rate to show that at least some of the money from the Casino is going to the state as well.

 

[Never]

I'll admit I'm biaised. But putting a team in the middle of the desert in a town that's built around prostitution and stealing money from irrational people trough gambling and slot machines (and was built by organised crime and corruption) doesn't seem like the best thing for the NHL's image, or hockey.

But, like I said. I'm doubly biaised against Vegas. I live in a Hockey mad place without a team.... and I worked for a year in one of Quebec's government sponsored gambling and drinking dens in Quebec City while at University. And it still sickens me to this day how I helped the government rob poor, naive uneducated people dry while feeding them alcohol and chips.

And honestly since the money in Vegas casinos isn't going to the government, Las Vegas sickens me even more.

But whatever, I guess nobody cares about decency anymore. Or people's love for Hockey. It's all about ole Uncle Gary giving his old Maloof NBA pals a hockey team to play with!

Pffff... Like I said, I'm biaised, and you can call me a moral crusader and a Conservative fool, but Las Vegas sickens me. And if you ask me it's no surprise Bettman and the Maloofs love the damned place.

Bettman supported moving the Thrashers to Winnipeg. This whole "Bettman is anti-Canadian" kick is annoying and historically inaccurate.

 

[XX]

Putting a team... in a town that's built around prostitution and stealing money ... (and was built by organised crime and corruption) doesn't seem like the best thing for the NHL's image, or hockey.

I look forward to your rant about Chicago.

 

[cutchemist42]

To me, my worries are just....
-not enough NHL/hockey fans
-that the NHL is not the league people will flock to, to embrace they are a major league city. i believe this way of looking at it is overrated. I dont think many people have this mindset.
-I dont like the arena situation as a I picture it.

 

[sabresfan65]

To me, my worries are just....
-not enough NHL/hockey fans
-that the NHL is not the league people flock to to embrace they are a major league city. i believe this way of looking at it is overrated. I dont think many people have this mindset.
-I dont like the arena situation as a I picture it.

What don't you like about the arena situation?

 

[cutchemist42]

What don't you like about the arena situation?

Spending a couple of years on this board, you get a feeling there a few general accepted ways an NHL team has the best chance at success. I feel this board feels one of those reasons is a NHL-heavy beneficial arena deal. Its why some here think its better to be NHL-first in Seattle over NHL tenent in an NBA arena.

Based off what I've read/heard, this arena is not being built for the NHL, so I dont see them getting the beneficial arena deals other NHL teams do. This problem can be magnified if you are already in a shaky situation.

 

[BattleBorn]

Spending a couple of years on this board, you get a feeling there a few general accepted ways an NHL team has the best chance at success. I feel this board feels one of those reasons is a NHL-heavy beneficial arena deal. Its why some here think its better to be NHL-first in Seattle over NHL tenent in an NBA arena.

Based off what I've read/heard, this arena is not being built for the NHL, so I dont see them getting the beneficial arena deals other NHL teams do. This problem can be magnified if you are already in a shaky situation.

Not to make this seem overly simplistic, but I've got to think the people involved in investing a few hundred million in a team have got to have a pretty decent idea of what it takes to run a successful franchise and will do whatever's necessary on the arena front to make it happen. That's fairly reasonable, right?

There is a little bit of a hometown pride thing involved here, as well as the fact that the company that owns the arena isn't in the arena business. This isn't their only money making venture by a long sight, I'm sure they want to make a profit on the arena, but even if they do it's a blip on the balance sheet.

Like I keep saying, this is a pretty cherry situation for everyone involved.

 

[cutchemist42]

Not to make this seem overly simplistic, but I've got to think the people involved in investing a few hundred million in a team have got to have a pretty decent idea of what it takes to run a successful franchise and will do whatever's necessary on the arena front to make it happen. That's fairly reasonable, right?

There is a little bit of a hometown pride thing involved here, as well as the fact that the company that owns the arena isn't in the arena business. This isn't their only money making venture by a long sight, I'm sure they want to make a profit on the arena, but even if they do it's a blip on the balance sheet.

Like I keep saying, this is a pretty cherry situation for everyone involved.

TBH, Bill Foley sounds like he's making his first venture into sports entertainment, while at the same time involving some people who have a bad history in the industry. NHL is littered with lots of millionaires who thought they had it figured out too only to find out the reality upon being handed the keys.

Im not the only one either that has brought up this worry about the fact this team will be a tenant. Add to that, I dont think the NHL is even pricing this at a level that allows Foley the best opportunity for success from the get-go. $500 million to me is too much to pay for the situation.

 

[psowrc]

TBH, Bill Foley sounds like he's making his first venture into sports entertainment, while at the same time involving some people who have a bad history in the industry. NHL is littered with lots of millionaires who thought they had it figured out too only to find out the reality upon being handed the keys.

Im not the only one either that has brought up this worry about the fact this team will be a tenant. Add to that, I dont think the NHL is even pricing this at a level that allows Foley the best opportunity for success from the get-go. $500 million to me is too much to pay for the situation.

Thankfully your lack of knowledge regarding the ownership group and the ability to pay the price for the team is misguided. Mr. Bettman believes they have the ability to purchase the team.

 

[Spade]

I'll admit I'm biaised. But putting a team in the middle of the desert in a town that's built around prostitution and stealing money from irrational people trough gambling and slot machines (and was built by organised crime and corruption) doesn't seem like the best thing for the NHL's image, or hockey.

But, like I said. I'm doubly biaised against Vegas. I live in a Hockey mad place without a team.... and I worked for a year in one of Quebec's government sponsored gambling and drinking dens in Quebec City while at University. And it still sickens me to this day how I helped the government rob poor, naive uneducated people dry while feeding them alcohol and chips.

And honestly since the money in Vegas casinos isn't going to the government, Las Vegas sickens me even more.

But whatever, I guess nobody cares about decency anymore. Or people's love for Hockey. It's all about ole Uncle Gary giving his old Maloof NBA pals a hockey team to play with!

Pffff... Like I said, I'm biaised, and you can call me a moral crusader and a Conservative fool, but Las Vegas sickens me. And if you ask me it's no surprise Bettman and the Maloofs love the damned place.

So your response is to condemn the entire city for simply existing? Interesting.

My take is pretty much exactly what's posted in here (shameless plug for a new blog incoming): http://www.hockeyminority.com/?p=63#more-63

Not everyone is involved in the casino business and even less people are the "shady" ones that you seem to hate. The reality is that not every member of the 2 million population is a ******* criminal who makes money off of the suffering of others. Maybe, you know, some people just want to watch some professional sport at the highest level of competition 41 games a year?

I could paint Quebec City as a town full of poor farmers and Quebecor employees, but that's not the reality, is it?

I'd like Las Vegas to happen, if only because I'm curious to see how the Maloofs would turn it into a success. Because everyone goes into the ownership business guns ablazing until they get the to not-as-fun part of owning a sports team, namely the actual RUNNING of the team's operations.

If you dig deep into the history of a lot of places, I'm sure you'd find some sketchy things there. I'm not going to judge the residents of the city just because that's where they happen to live, and I'm not going to judge the market with any certainty until after I see it in action.

 

[kdb209]

This is a Las Vegas thread, not a Quebec thread or a "my city deserves a team more" thread.

 

[TheLegend]

Interesting. In one of the other threads, another poster mentioned he felt Killion was anti Arizona.

... am vacillating duplicitous rogue.

Killion flops more than a frog in a pot of boiling water.... oh wait.... wrong thread.

Killion isn't anti-Arizona. He's anti-current-arena-deal.

We now return you to the subject of Las Vegas.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Not to make this seem overly simplistic, but I've got to think the people involved in investing a few hundred million in a team have got to have a pretty decent idea of what it takes to run a successful franchise and will do whatever's necessary on the arena front to make it happen. That's fairly reasonable, right?

There is a little bit of a hometown pride thing involved here, as well as the fact that the company that owns the arena isn't in the arena business. This isn't their only money making venture by a long sight, I'm sure they want to make a profit on the arena, but even if they do it's a blip on the balance sheet.

Like I keep saying, this is a pretty cherry situation for everyone involved.

i continue to be very interested in what's happening in vegas and am intrigued by the whole plan, but i would not generally agree that folks who invest a couple of hundred million dollars necessarily know what they are doing. the expression "more money than brains" has in the past been known to apply to this sort of venture. it could very well succeed but it could just as easily fail, no guarantees in any of this.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

i continue to be very interested in what's happening in vegas and am intrigued by the whole plan, but i would not generally agree that folks who invest a couple of hundred million dollars necessarily know what they are doing. the expression "more money than brains" has in the past been known to apply to this sort of venture. it could very well succeed but it could just as easily fail, no guarantees in any of this.

This is a Las Vegas thread, not a Glendale thread.





(sorry, just trying to retain my ability to laugh about this stuff!)

 

[Inkling]

Thankfully your lack of knowledge regarding the ownership group and the ability to pay the price for the team is misguided. Mr. Bettman believes they have the ability to purchase the team.

Bettman and the NHL have such a good history of due diligence on potential owners!

 

[psowrc]

Bettman and the NHL have such a good history of due diligence on potential owners!

What is your point? Foley isn't a legimate owner candidate? Based on what information?

If your post was merely to be funny, I will laugh with you.

 

[Fugu]

Thankfully your lack of knowledge regarding the ownership group and the ability to pay the price for the team is misguided. Mr. Bettman believes they have the ability to purchase the team.

It's a legitimate point to consider the net worth of the owner, the cost of the franchise fee, and likely revenue, all things we here can at least hit in the ball park.

Do you have additional information, or just assuming Mr. Bettman has it all figured out?

 

[Killion]

What is your point? Foley isn't a legimate owner candidate? Based on what information?

.... no worries psowrc, bit of a running joke here of the various owners & wannabe owners, not all of them of course but enough, Until recently as the bottom rung of the Big 4, the NHL did attract a considerable number of miscreants over the years & decades.... all that being said, from what Ive read about Foley, seems a really great standup kinda guy, make for a fabulous owner really in any market... the Maloofs on the other hand, they do come with some baggage by way of Sacramento so there is that. But no, most assuredly not is anyone suggesting nor even intimating that there's anything shady about Vegas's aspiring NHL ownership group. We simply dont allow that kind of insinuation nor libelous chatter here on hf absent hard proof.

 

[psowrc]

.... no worries psowrc, bit of a running joke here of the various owners & wannabe owners, not all of them of course but enough, Until recently as the bottom rung of the Big 4, the NHL did attract a considerable number of miscreants over the years & decades.... all that being said, from what Ive read about Foley, seems a really great standup kinda guy, make for a fabulous owner really in any market... the Maloofs on the other hand, they do come with some baggage by way of Sacramento so there is that. But no, most assuredly not is anyone suggesting nor even intimating that there's anything shady about Vegas's aspiring NHL ownership group. We simply dont allow that kind of insinuation nor libelous chatter here on hf absent hard proof.

Thank you for the clarification. I know that the league has had a past history of selling to the highest bidder...which didn't work out so well on several occasions.

I will agree that the Maloof proponent carries baggage - much like if Foley had hooked up with the Gaughns/Boyds etc. I do believe that Bettman has become gunshy in his analyzing prospective buyers so he doesn't have to eat egg on a daily basis.

 

[PCSPounder]

MGM is publically traded, so in all likelihood they are not directly allowed to have a stake in ownership.

What is Bill Foley's relationship to MGM? Might he be kind of a proxy here?

I'm just pursuing an idea about how NHL might see the arena situation better than we do.

Or is it just the notion of "HIGH PROFILE virgin market?"

I still sometimes see "arena situation" in terms of location and I still think "you've got to be kidding me," because the prime concern should be getting locals (never mind people on the north end of the strip) physically in and out of that arena. I've dealt with traffic on the Strip enough to gasp at the thought. I simply cannot believe this works without some multi-million dollar relief valve built.

 

[cutchemist42]

MGM is publically traded, so in all likelihood they are not directly allowed to have a stake in ownership.

What is Bill Foley's relationship to MGM? Might he be kind of a proxy here?

I'm just pursuing an idea about how NHL might see the arena situation better than we do.

Or is it just the notion of "HIGH PROFILE virgin market?"

I still sometimes see "arena situation" in terms of location and I still think "you've got to be kidding me," because the prime concern should be getting locals (never mind people on the north end of the strip) physically in and out of that arena. I've dealt with traffic on the Strip enough to gasp at the thought. I simply cannot believe this works without some multi-million dollar relief valve built.

With how many times relocation/expansion/etc threads boil down to debates about ______'s arena situation, I do think questioning if this arena situation as a tenant allows Vegas to work is ok.

Since Ive never been to the Strip, I personally wont comment on the traffic, but trust a few of the opinions I'v read on the subject.

 

[Killion]

What is Bill Foley's relationship to MGM? Might he be kind of a proxy here?... I'm just pursuing an idea about how NHL might see the arena situation better than we do.

No, I shouldnt anything like that PCS, not a "proxy". Its not just MGM here (who have pre-existing relationships with Foley & the Maloofs), throw AEG into the mix, ultimate NHL insiders, the league itself with business & personal connections to Nevada & throughout the SW & so on.... Dots connect... you were just missing one... forgot about AEG perhaps?

 

[kdb209]

MGM is publically traded, so in all likelihood they are not directly allowed to have a stake in ownership.

Why not? The NHL (unlike the NFL) has no restriction against corporate ownership. Comcast owns the Flyers. Disney owned the Ducks. Even MSG is actually a publicly traded corporation - albeit one with a multi class stock structure to allow the Dolan family to retain operational control even though they own only a small percentage of the stock.

 

[IceAce]

 

[Sens Mile]

So 8000 tickets in a month, my guess is that they have a month left to get where they need to be or the NHL will put an end to this. I want an even NHL (competitively) so here's to hoping they can get the last 2000 tickets and make Vegas hockey work.