NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

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BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
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Well, ya. But when you fill out the form on the website, wanthockeyvegas or whatever, your supposed to include your phone number, right? .... Las Vegas, thats Area Code 702 or if your a Newbie, might get stuck with a 725.... so, what were these Salespeople thinking, Toni & Todd there when they see Fenways' phone number, Boston Area Code 617 or 857?... assumed that its Nevada & he prolly live's off grid & off the map up around Groom Lake? Riding the range in a disc powered by zero point energy up at Paradise Ranch mutilating cattle and just dont bother asking because you just dont ask questions or what?

Everybody keeps their old cell phone numbers nowadays. Of all my close friends, I've got one person with a Seattle area code, one with a San Jose area code, and two with Chicago area codes. They've all been here at least five years.

I get what you're saying, though. We do get plenty of snowbirds in the area, probably best to just make the call and see what happens versus ignoring people that kept their Boston phone number when they moved out west.:)
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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Post of the day......:laugh:

... :laugh: ya, got a million of em'. Theres more to that one but, decidedly XXX Rated. Not fit for this Board... hafta Infract myself.

How long before they start calling Canada I wonder.....

.... :laugh: stahp.... not happenin... though someone should place a call to none other than Bob McCown in Toronto & do it live on-air. He lived in Las Vegas, owned a home & worked there. Loves Vegas. Get him to buy an entire section.... "Never mind a pair of seats.... your buying an entire section.... no?..... but, Ive already ordered the seats, your name screened onto them.... ha?.... cant hear ya Bawb... bad line... already done.... MGM Grand has your credit number on file... and ya, some nasty nasty pictures caught on ccv.... I'll just phone the Desk Manager shall I?".
 

sparkychewbarky

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Jan 27, 2012
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.... :laugh: stahp.... not happenin... though someone should place a call to none other than Bob McCown in Toronto & do it live on-air. He lived in Las Vegas, owned a home & worked there. Loves Vegas. Get him to buy an entire section.... "Never mind a pair of seats.... your buying an entire section.... no?..... but, Ive already ordered the seats, your name screened onto them.... ha?.... cant hear ya Bawb... bad line... already done.... MGM Grand has your credit number on file... and ya, some nasty nasty pictures caught on ccv.... I'll just phone the Desk Manager shall I?".

...Didn't the Bobcat support the Vegas CFL franchise?
He must be watching this process with great interest.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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...Didn't the Bobcat support the Vegas CFL franchise?
He must be watching this process with great interest.

I believe so, yes... and no doubt he is watching with interest. Cant recall what his position's been on the NHL or NBA landing in Vegas.
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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Maybe but having a hockey team in Vegas is nonsensical. Bettmann seems to forget some of us actually care about the game and I don't just mean fans.

Before the NHL expanded to San Jose, no one there really cared about hockey.

But since the NHL made the smart move to get there and be one of the first pro teams to do so, they now have a very solid fan base that would be pained for them to leave.

You should leave the business to the business men. A team in Vegas makes more sense than most Canadian cities just on population alone. Let alone being the first in the market and corporate sponsorship. Those people in Quebec city are going to watch hockey regardless.

After this, then Seattle !
 

Acesolid

The Illusive Bettman
Sep 21, 2010
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Before the NHL expanded to San Jose, no one there really cared about hockey.

But since the NHL made the smart move to get there and be one of the first pro teams to do so, they now have a very solid fan base that would be pained for them to leave.

You should leave the business to the business men. A team in Vegas makes more sense than most Canadian cities just on population alone. Let alone being the first in the market and corporate sponsorship. Those people in Quebec city are going to watch hockey regardless.

After this, then Seattle !

How can we watch NHL Hockey when there's no team here?

Unless you mean someone watching on TV is worth as much as someone paying 100$ for a ticket.

MOD
 
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PCSPounder

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Apr 12, 2012
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How can we watch NHL Hockey when there's no team here?

Unless you mean someone watching on TV is worth as much as someone paying 100$ for a ticket.

The money the league is trying to garner might end up being exactly that. The NFL most assuredly has that. Even MLS doubled or tripled their take from TV.

TV rights are going up like crazy because sports is the last assured male audience.

I'm not saying the NHL will get that much. But it's possibly in reach.
 

cutchemist42

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Apr 7, 2011
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I believe so, yes... and no doubt he is watching with interest. Cant recall what his position's been on the NHL or NBA landing in Vegas.

As a listener of PTS 2-3 times a week, I've heard him discuss it multiple times and he basically sounds like one of us each time, he questions a few aspects but since its not his money, nor his governments money, why not watch the experiment.

-He feels hockey is not a big sport there, and wonders if enough local hockey fans exist. Says this cant be close to tourist reliant, and kind of mockingly says anyone seeing hockey on a Vegas needs a life outside of the sport. Quite simply, he says Vegas is truly one of the only cities in NA where he easily feels there are better entertainment options.

-Questions if Foley will have a fair shake paying that expansion fee. He has followed the business of sports for a long time, so he feels the NHL chased quick money in the past without allowing those first owners a good chance at success.

-He's probably one of the few people on the radio to discuss smartly a lot the arena/stadium situations in sport. Acknowledges we might never find out the terms of Foley's future lease, but is worried of an NHL team being a tenant in the arena's location.

-His line every time when asked by the other people on his show, is that if he had to choose an amount of money to invest in sports in LV, and the only difference being NHL vs NBA, he would drop his money into an NBA team in LV before NHL.

-Kinda thinks the NHL is the only league that actually aspires to, and sees LV as a thing. That the NHL sees it as their Everest, while other leagues dont view it in the same light.
 
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Jeffrey93

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Nov 7, 2007
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Before the NHL expanded to San Jose, no one there really cared about hockey.

But since the NHL made the smart move to get there and be one of the first pro teams to do so, they now have a very solid fan base that would be pained for them to leave.

You should leave the business to the business men. A team in Vegas makes more sense than most Canadian cities just on population alone. Let alone being the first in the market and corporate sponsorship. Those people in Quebec city are going to watch hockey regardless.

After this, then Seattle !

This logic is so flawed, so very flawed.

Let's put teams where nobody cares about hockey....that way, when some of them start to care about hockey....we've created NEW fans!

You have people in cities begging and pleading to throw their money at the NHL....and you think the logical choice is to go somewhere that nobody cares, so that new fans can be created.

Well, I'd argue that the corporate sponsorship in Hamilton and/or Quebec City would be much larger than in Vegas or Seattle. The ticket prices would also be much higher as would the attendance.

Would the NHL's ratings in Las Vegas increase because of a team in Quebec? No. Would the ratings rise from a team in Las Vegas? Doubtful. Look at how the huge TV market of Atlanta worked out.

Is this the only business (NHL Hockey) where a plan of going where demand is lowest is a smart business model? I don't think so. Yes, I get the whole 'growing the game' argument. You need to GROW it....not implant it.

I haven't read this whole thread and it's predecessors. Any word on how this ticket drive is going? You'd think they should be out of seats and making a big announcement in front of a casino water feature with fireworks in the background by now.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Kinda thinks the NHL is the only league that actually aspires to, and sees LV as a thing. That the NHL sees it as their Everest, while other leagues dont view it in the same light.

Interesting observation. I can see what he means of course. Your not exactly selling people swimming pools & air conditioners down there. Looking at it, at first blush, kinda like opening up an Arctic Cat snowmobile franchise.... thing is, if you know what your doing & retro-fit the machine a bit, those things can perform quite brilliantly on desert sands. A hell of a lot of fun in fact. So I get that part of it.
 

The Feckless Puck

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Is this the only business (NHL Hockey) where a plan of going where demand is lowest is a smart business model? I don't think so. Yes, I get the whole 'growing the game' argument. You need to GROW it....not implant it.

I'm not sure you do get the whole 'growing the game' argument if you can't see the value in opening and encouraging interest in hockey in new markets that aren't hockey-saturated.

I haven't read this whole thread and it's predecessors. Any word on how this ticket drive is going? You'd think they should be out of seats and making a big announcement in front of a casino water feature with fireworks in the background by now.

The ticket drive is 80% to its goal. And I'm positive that they'll have a big to-do with chorus girls and dancing fountains the minute they cap it off.
 

cutchemist42

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Apr 7, 2011
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Interesting observation. I can see what he means of course. Your not exactly selling people swimming pools & air conditioners down there. Looking at it, at first blush, kinda like opening up an Arctic Cat snowmobile franchise.... thing is, if you know what your doing & retro-fit the machine a bit, those things can perform quite brilliantly on desert sands. A hell of a lot of fun in fact. So I get that part of it.

Yep. That the NFL and NBA know they could probably drop down in Vegas and make it work if they wanted to, but what would be the benefit, its not a huge tv market in the grand scheme of things really.

At the same time, the NHL, for people who dont look into it closely, is seen by the general sports public as having failed in Southern markets. You make it work in Vegas, make it the shining example, and maybe that stigma that hangs in the air over the NHL concerning regional significance goes away.

Basically, with the amount of LV rumours going back to Bruckheimer and others, Bob has felt Vegas is something the NHL has wanted for years and if a situation had been present sooner, they would have jumped on it then.

As a slight aside, other leagues have shown this mindset. F1 in the USA, NFL in London....

Lastly....I had zero clue this was a thing!

George%20Front%20Phazer.jpg
 

Jeffrey93

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Nov 7, 2007
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I'm not sure you do get the whole 'growing the game' argument if you can't see the value in opening and encouraging interest in hockey in new markets that aren't hockey-saturated.
How are markets void of an NHL franchise "saturated"? I'm all for "opening and encouraging interest in new markets that aren't hockey-saturated"....but you don't do that by firing a franchise of the best hockey in the world into that market.

Hey...let's try to create some hockey fans! Let's give people that currently don't care about hockey the best hockey in the world!

The ticket drive is 80% to its goal. And I'm positive that they'll have a big to-do with chorus girls and dancing fountains the minute they cap it off.
80% of what again? 10,000? How long has this been going on?

I've seen markets throw substantial deposits down and sellout in under 48 hours....but they cared about hockey. So I guess that negates it.

NHL....the only brand that can show complete disinterest in actual fans in an attempt to create a few new ones. As a great columnist once said....the NHL thrives despite itself.

Could you imagine if any other brand did this? "Our market studies show Orlando Florida has the highest demand for our product, they have no ability to purchase our product at this time. But on the plus side....Louisville Kentucky has absolutely zero interest in our product...so we're opening a store there next week."

Creating interest in hockey isn't done by giving that market the best hockey in the world and seeing how things go. That just opens the league up for failure.

Having 30 thriving teams....in 30 thriving markets....putting AHL teams in potential markets (compensating teams for the inconvenience possibly), that GROWS the game. Imagine a potential NHL customer in Las Vegas right now tuning into a Florida Panthers game because the hype got him to buy NHL Center Ice. And he sees 7,800 people watching the game live. That really must create demand eh?

You need to create demand for your product before simply offering it up. Otherwise...the way to get the product is to show an absolute disinterest in it. And what good is that?
 

Fenway

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Sep 26, 2007
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If you look at NHL expansion/relocation history the league has won more than they lost.

Oakland failed over bad ownership and moving to Cleveland made things worse because the team was playing in a cornfield away from the population center.

Kansas City - Biggest NHL expansion fail but it was an awful team.
Atlanta - With the right ownership it would have been fine there.
Florida - HORRIBLE OWNERSHIP and leaving Miami for Sunrise didn't help.
Arizona - Moving from Phoenix to Glendale was a disaster.

My gut feeling is the powers that be in LV will not allow the hockey team to fail. It is similar to Orlando getting a NBA franchise 20 years ago and Disney while not involved directly made sure the arena was packed so it would look good on ESPN highlights.
 

MynameisKing

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Sep 29, 2010
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Bettman is a business man. Pretty smart really. What people fail to see is that LV is a goldmine for new fans of the NHL. Remember, LV is a WORLD TOURIST destination! Not just domestic. If a tourist group from Manila going to a NHL game in Vegas turns some into fans then that would be something other cities won't be able to do! It's basically a turn style for potential fans all across the globe.
 
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TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
Aug 30, 2009
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Arizona - Moving from Phoenix to Glendale was a disaster.

Not exactly and the attendance numbers the first years after the arena opened show that to a degree.

You had a lockout hit a year afterwards and coupled with some real bad teams post lockout and then the economy hit Arizona hard. Perfect storm.

The arena location in Glendale wasn't the ideal choice. But it's not the biggest reason for the Coyotes' woes.
 

FlaPantherSwe*

Guest
How are markets void of an NHL franchise "saturated"? I'm all for "opening and encouraging interest in new markets that aren't hockey-saturated"....but you don't do that by firing a franchise of the best hockey in the world into that market.

Hey...let's try to create some hockey fans! Let's give people that currently don't care about hockey the best hockey in the world!


80% of what again? 10,000? How long has this been going on?

I've seen markets throw substantial deposits down and sellout in under 48 hours....but they cared about hockey. So I guess that negates it.

NHL....the only brand that can show complete disinterest in actual fans in an attempt to create a few new ones. As a great columnist once said....the NHL thrives despite itself.

Could you imagine if any other brand did this? "Our market studies show Orlando Florida has the highest demand for our product, they have no ability to purchase our product at this time. But on the plus side....Louisville Kentucky has absolutely zero interest in our product...so we're opening a store there next week."

Creating interest in hockey isn't done by giving that market the best hockey in the world and seeing how things go. That just opens the league up for failure.

Having 30 thriving teams....in 30 thriving markets....putting AHL teams in potential markets (compensating teams for the inconvenience possibly), that GROWS the game. Imagine a potential NHL customer in Las Vegas right now tuning into a Florida Panthers game because the hype got him to buy NHL Center Ice. And he sees 7,800 people watching the game live. That really must create demand eh?

You need to create demand for your product before simply offering it up. Otherwise...the way to get the product is to show an absolute disinterest in it. And what good is that?

You hate Florida with passion? Did you also hate on Pens in 2000-2005? When they where just as bad as Florida now? What is your opinion on LA? One market that could careless about hockey not long ago? What about Nashville? Few years ago same as Florida did you hate them with a passion aswell? How about Washington before Ovi?
 

IceAce

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Jun 9, 2010
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80% of what again? 10,000? How long has this been going on?

I've seen markets throw substantial deposits down and sellout in under 48 hours....but they cared about hockey. So I guess that negates it.

NHL....the only brand that can show complete disinterest in actual fans in an attempt to create a few new ones. As a great columnist once said....the NHL thrives despite itself.

Could you imagine if any other brand did this? "Our market studies show Orlando Florida has the highest demand for our product, they have no ability to purchase our product at this time. But on the plus side....Louisville Kentucky has absolutely zero interest in our product...so we're opening a store there next week."

Creating interest in hockey isn't done by giving that market the best hockey in the world and seeing how things go. That just opens the league up for failure.

Having 30 thriving teams....in 30 thriving markets....putting AHL teams in potential markets (compensating teams for the inconvenience possibly), that GROWS the game. Imagine a potential NHL customer in Las Vegas right now tuning into a Florida Panthers game because the hype got him to buy NHL Center Ice. And he sees 7,800 people watching the game live. That really must create demand eh?

You need to create demand for your product before simply offering it up. Otherwise...the way to get the product is to show an absolute disinterest in it. And what good is that?

You'd do well to go read about 2-3 pages back where the points (strawmen) you're raising were discussed and dealt with. At this point, we're just on the merry-go-round again.
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
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You hate Florida with passion? Did you also hate on Pens in 2000-2005? When they where just as bad as Florida now? What is your opinion on LA? One market that could careless about hockey not long ago? What about Nashville? Few years ago same as Florida did you hate them with a passion aswell? How about Washington before Ovi?

All those other teams have one thing in common, that you yourself pointed out....they turned it around, at least for now.

Florida is another example of putting a team where there is no demand in an attempt to create demand. Meanwhile there is demand in markets that is going largely untapped....why? Because they're already fans.

Not many brands can get away with snubbing their supporters like the NHL does....and those that do don't do it for long.

Let's say Vegas gets a team and it doesn't go well for a decade, with no hope of getting better. At the same time the problems continue in Phoenix and Miami. During this time the Predators are tanking and support is back to what it was, the Hurricanes are in a failed rebuild and their support disappears. Anaheim loses some UFAs and are near the bottom of the standings so the rink is half-empty every night.

Now you have 5 teams minimum that are in serious trouble. When you have teams like Miami and Phoenix....you shouldn't be putting teams in places like Las Vegas. At the very least....take one from elsewhere and put it in Vegas so the number of possible failures doesn't increase.
 

FlaPantherSwe*

Guest
All those other teams have one thing in common, that you yourself pointed out....they turned it around, at least for now.

Florida is another example of putting a team where there is no demand in an attempt to create demand. Meanwhile there is demand in markets that is going largely untapped....why? Because they're already fans.

Not many brands can get away with snubbing their supporters like the NHL does....and those that do don't do it for long.

Let's say Vegas gets a team and it doesn't go well for a decade, with no hope of getting better. At the same time the problems continue in Phoenix and Miami. During this time the Predators are tanking and support is back to what it was, the Hurricanes are in a failed rebuild and their support disappears. Anaheim loses some UFAs and are near the bottom of the standings so the rink is half-empty every night.

Now you have 5 teams minimum that are in serious trouble. When you have teams like Miami and Phoenix....you shouldn't be putting teams in places like Las Vegas. At the very least....take one from elsewhere and put it in Vegas so the number of possible failures doesn't increase.

Panthers are not miami and its Arizona not Phoenix.. And tbh i rather trust the owners and Bettman whats best for NHL.. Bettman turned NHL from 400 million to 3 billion.. and he is the one responsible for these teams.. you wont get the large US tv contracts with only teams in the north.. Hockey aswell is alrdy to much niche it does not hurt to expand it to new bodies that can take the sport to new levels
 

Jeffrey93

Registered User
Nov 7, 2007
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Panthers are not miami and its Arizona not Phoenix.. And tbh i rather trust the owners and Bettman whats best for NHL.. Bettman turned NHL from 400 million to 3 billion.. and he is the one responsible for these teams.. you wont get the large US tv contracts with only teams in the north.. Hockey aswell is alrdy to much niche it does not hurt to expand it to new bodies that can take the sport to new levels


{Mod} Take the sport to new levels eh? So how are the Coyotes and Panthers accomplishing that?

The league expanded to 'new bodies' already and several still haven't become stable yet, so doing this even more increases risk.

The NHL isn't going to get a large US TV contract when they have teams playing in front of 6,500 people either. Some would argue they aren't going to get one regardless. You can't land tv contracts by just showing where you have teams "Hey look! We're in Las Vegas! Televise us!", especially when some of those teams aren't drawing well for ticket sales or local tv ratings.

Phoenix, in 2013, broke a record by being watched in 23,000 homes on local tv. That's was a record home-opener broadcast for them! THAT isn't going to get you a large US TV deal....with Las Vegas in the league or not.

Las Vegas might perk up some TV interest initially because it'd be the first major league to venture there....but then the novelty will wear off and it will be just another team.
 
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BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
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-He feels hockey is not a big sport there, and wonders if enough local hockey fans exist. Says this cant be close to tourist reliant, and kind of mockingly says anyone seeing hockey on a Vegas needs a life outside of the sport. Quite simply, he says Vegas is truly one of the only cities in NA where he easily feels there are better entertainment options.

Likely true, there's a lot of other options here. However, when anyone spends more than a week here, you really start to boil the options down. Throwing a $20 in a poker machine isn't as fun, eating at expensive restaurants is less appealing, how many Cirque du Soleil shows can a person really see? Vegas needs real entertainment for the actual residents, who have been there/done that when it comes to the Vegas stuff. Like I always say, once you get off the Strip/Downtown, this is a normal city with normal people doing normal things.

-Questions if Foley will have a fair shake paying that expansion fee. He has followed the business of sports for a long time, so he feels the NHL chased quick money in the past without allowing those first owners a good chance at success.

My biggest concern is right there. That's a huge number and hopefully it will come down a little. Let's be honest, anyone willing to put half a billion into a team not including an arena should be able to put it where ever the hell they want. Laramie Lightninghawks? Got a half billion to give us? You're in.

-He's probably one of the few people on the radio to discuss smartly a lot the arena/stadium situations in sport. Acknowledges we might never find out the terms of Foley's future lease, but is worried of an NHL team being a tenant in the arena's location.

This is where I think the uniqueness of Las Vegas comes in. As I've mentioned in this thread previously, the hockey team won't be the product the arena is selling, the people walking to and from the arena is the product. Get them into the restaurants and casinos surrounding the arena. That's the only reason the arena exists in the first place. Caesars needed a centerpiece for their development that's a lot like The Park thing the MGM is using the arena as a draw for. Caesars idea? Spend a couple hundred million dollars building the world's largest ferris wheel. Again, the wheel isn't the product, getting people into their area is the only goal.

-His line every time when asked by the other people on his show, is that if he had to choose an amount of money to invest in sports in LV, and the only difference being NHL vs NBA, he would drop his money into an NBA team in LV before NHL.

I think people overestimate Las Vegas' desire for basketball. Not to come across too badly using blanket statements, but Vegas didn't like basketball for the weekend we had it. The fans tore stuff up, criminal activity on the Strip and vicinity went up a lot, and the folks at MGM (who are the people using the arena as the centerpiece) publicly stated they lost money on the whole deal. Going back to my point about the arena being a people magnet more than an actual business venture, the hockey demographic is a lot more complimentary to their goals.

-Kinda thinks the NHL is the only league that actually aspires to, and sees LV as a thing. That the NHL sees it as their Everest, while other leagues dont view it in the same light.

The only other possibility for Vegas is the NBA. We're not going to have a football or baseball stadium any time soon, especially after the outrage from the suggestion that we use tax dollars for a soccer stadium plus the fact that the NFL & MLB don't want to touch gaming with a 100 foot pole. Hell, the NFL won't even let the LVCVA purchase Super Bowl commercials promoting Vegas. Haven't you ever noticed how Las Vegas, which has great commercials, is always absent from the biggest commercial event annually? All that to say that this statement is pointless. What he's really saying is that the NBA doesn't value Vegas as much as the NHL, and given MGM's stance on basketball, why would they?
 

Pinkfloyd

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Oct 29, 2006
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I don't remember there being much interest in hockey in a lot of places before the NHL came there. I don't see how that's much of an argument. Vegas is getting a team because they have an owner willing to throw down a lot of money, an arena in place to go in, and a location that interests the league.

What this comes down to for certain people is putting more teams in Canada. I firmly believe that QC will get the next Eastern Conference relocation. Possibly an expansion team if the league wants to jump to 34 which it could do if they wanted. I think we all know why Toronto and Hamilton will not get a team and it's not because they already have fans. Politics and territories is why they won't get a team. Projecting anger on teams like Arizona, Florida, or any potential American expansion site doesn't change that nor does their existence affect any of that.
 

BattleBorn

50% to winning as many division titles as Toronto
Feb 6, 2015
12,069
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Bellevue, WA
80% of what again? 10,000? How long has this been going on?

A little over one month. We've still got about 4 1/2 months to match Columbus and Nashville's enthusiasm. Safe to say, I think we'll do it.

Creating interest in hockey isn't done by giving that market the best hockey in the world and seeing how things go. That just opens the league up for failure.

Having 30 thriving teams....in 30 thriving markets....putting AHL teams in potential markets (compensating teams for the inconvenience possibly), that GROWS the game. Imagine a potential NHL customer in Las Vegas right now tuning into a Florida Panthers game because the hype got him to buy NHL Center Ice. And he sees 7,800 people watching the game live. That really must create demand eh?

I fell in love with hockey watching the IHL's Las Vegas Thunder. The experiment works. We were pulling good numbers with the Thunder back in the 90s, and the city has increased in size by 50% since then. I don't care how many people are in the stands when I watch games on Center Ice (which stinks for people that don't have cable/satellite, btw) I watch hockey, not the crowd.

You need to create demand for your product before simply offering it up. Otherwise...the way to get the product is to show an absolute disinterest in it. And what good is that?

There is something to be said for opening your product or service to new markets. Walgreens was a restaurant group that owned a few drug stores way back in their history. If they stuck with what worked they'd likely be a middle of the road failing restaurant company now, they saw the opportunity for growth and jumped on it, now they're hugely successful. It's not a great example, but having the least dominant professional sports league continue to put teams in areas where they're already dominating the market doesn't provide for much growth. How much bigger could the Canadian TV contract get? The place for growth is in the US, where there's 10 times the people and half the interest of Canada. Is Vegas the right way to do it? Maybe, maybe not. The potential upside is a whole lot bigger than throwing a team in QC where people are already hockey fans. We'll get a team in QC, we're all pretty sure of that, but all QC really provides is a small market that's already saturated with hockey fans and some outstanding rivalry games to talk about for the hours leading up to and following games. I'd love to see Habs and Nords hit the ice again, but that's me speaking as a hockey fan, not me trying to grow the sport.
 
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