Paul Kariya vs Pavel Bure

[sr edler]

2nd vs 12th for the Hart..... thats all you need to know.

You're doing this thing again where you blanket compare different seasons against each other, not a very solid methodology. 93–94 was unusually strong.

Also, you're putting way too much credence into the PHWA, they voted Adam Graves as the most valuable player on the Rangers that year, but he wasn't even PPG but mostly just a trigger guy on their PP, offensively speaking. Quite a fine overall player, but not as valuable as Leetch or Zubov or Messier. That's like saying Alex Burrows was the MVP on the 2010–11 Canucks.

 

[stl76]

Bure had more flash but I preferred Kariya’s substance.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Bure
Over a ppg vs exactly ppg for Kariya
And more goals in 280 less games.

 

[Albatros]

Kariya was also comfortably above ppg at the age Bure retired, but he played until 35 rather than 31.

 

[Rorschach]

Man if Kariya played in this era...

 

[Plural]

Injuries really killed Bure,or we are likely talking about a top 10 player of all time.He was that good

He was not. He's a Selanne/Kariya level player. Hall of Fame level talent and easily in the upper tier of the Hall. But we got to see what he was.

 

[leaffann]

I'd say Kariya by a bit because he was a more multifaceted offensive player.

Bure played the PP & PK he was faster than Kariya & a better goal scorer.

 

[surixon]

Bure played the PP & PK he was faster than Kariya & a better goal scorer.

Kariya also played on the pp and PK. They were my two favorite players growing up. Imo they are pretty close to equal. Yes Bure was the more dynamic one on one player and the superior goal scorer, but Kariya was the more Cerebral player and had better vision and playmaking while being a top 10 goal scorer in the league. Its a matter of personal preference imo. As I've grown older the more Cerebral player type appeals to me more which is why I rate Kariya higher.

 

[leaffann]

Kariya also played on the pp and PK. They were my two favorite players growing up. Imo they are pretty close to equal. Yes Bure was the more dynamic one on one player and the superior goal scorer, but Kariya was the more Cerebral player and had better vision and playmaking while being a top 10 goal scorer in the league. Its a matter of personal preference imo. As I've grown older the more Cerebral player type appeals to me more which is why I rate Kariya higher.

Bure has 34 career SHG that is twice as much as Kariya. Bure has 49 career SHP over double compared to career. Bure has more career goals with almost 300 fewer games. Bure was faster than Kariya and a better goal scorer.

 

[surixon]

Bure has 34 career SHG that is twice as much as Kariya. Bure has 49 career SHP over double compared to career. Bure has more career goals with almost 300 fewer games. Bure was faster than Kariya and a better goal scorer.

I'm not sure what your point is. I already agreed Bure was the better goal scorer. All I said was Kariya also played on the PK. I don't remember enough of either player on the PK to give an informed answer in whonwas better.

You're free to like Bure more. I appreciate both with a nod to Kariya for who I prefer from a stylistic perspective.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I'm not sure what your point is. I already agreed Bure was the better goal scorer. All I said was Kariya also played on the PK. I don't remember enough of either player on the PK to give an informed answer in whonwas better.

You're free to like Bure more. I appreciate both with a nod to Kariya for who I prefer from a stylistic perspective.

This is a weird retreat. You made PK a point of emphasis yet he pointed out to you a glaring disparity in SHG. So there are other parts to PKing except his coach at the time had to trust him enough to expect him to help more than he hurts.

 

[the valiant effort]

Man if Kariya played in this era...

Man if either one of them played today. They’d feast

 

[surixon]

This is a weird retreat. You made PK a point of emphasis yet he pointed out to you a glaring disparity in SHG. So there are other parts to PKing except his coach at the time had to trust him enough to expect him to help more than he hurts.

All he said originally was Bure played on the PP and PK. I juat responded that so did Kariya. That was all, he then brought up points. The point of the PK is to prevent goals first so being a more prolific scorer may or may not have translated into being a better PK player depending on what was given up to score those points. I don't remember near enough to know that answer but I don't primarily judge a PKer by how many sh points they have.

 

[John Mandalorian]

All he said originally was Bure played on the PP and PK. I juat responded that so did Kariya. That was all, he then brought up points. The point of the PK is to prevent goals first so being a more prolific scorer may or may not have translated into being a better PK player depending on what was given up to score those points. I don't remember near enough to know that answer but I don't primarily judge a PKer by how many sh points they have.

Weird retreat.

 

[surixon]

Weird retreat.

Ok then. Can't retreat from a point I never made.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Ok then. Can't retreat from a point I never made.

You made PK important.

 

[surixon]

You made PK important.

No I didn't. I said Kariya was utilized in that role which he was. It was the other poster who made a big deal of it not me.

 

[Rorschach]

Man if either one of them played today. They’d feast

That's true, there was so much super-stardom in the early-mid 90s but so many of these players had major injuries...Selanne, Kariya, Eric Lindros, Bure, etc.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Kariya was the better player. Not close.

Right?! 5 x 50+ goal seasons, including 2 x 60 goal seasons, 6 x point per game+ seasons, including 2 x 100 point seasons, 3* x Rocket Richard Trophy, point per game+ in the playoffs for his career.

Oh wait that was Bure.

Kariya: 1 x 50 goal season, 7 x point per game+ seasons, including 2 x 100+ points, but never led the league in anything, no major awards, sub point per game in the playoffs.

One could maybe argue that Kariya was the more consistent player, but that’s about it. Bure was the better player, by quite a bit too.

They were both plagued by injuries, so that argument is negated either way.

 

[im gangster]

Who was better between the two of Them?

are you f***ing kidding me with this

 

[BraveCanadian]

Right?! 5 x 50+ goal seasons, including 2 x 60 goal seasons, 6 x point per game+ seasons, including 2 x 100 point seasons, 3* x Rocket Richard Trophy, point per game+ in the playoffs for his career.

Oh wait that was Bure.

Kariya: 1 x 50 goal season, 7 x point per game+ seasons, including 2 x 100+ points, but never led the league in anything, no major awards, sub point per game in the playoffs.

One could maybe argue that Kariya was the more consistent player, but that’s about it. Bure was the better player, by quite a bit too.

They were both plagued by injuries, so that argument is negated either way.

Big offensive seasons in the early 90s =/= big seasons in the later 90s-00s.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Big offensive seasons in the early 90s =/= big seasons in the later 90s-00s.

Leading the league in goals 3x > never leading the league in anything.

Btw, the two Rockets were in the later 90s-00s era.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Leading the league in goals 3x > never leading the league in anything.

It is a lot more complicated than that.

1st time Lemieux is sitting out.
2nd time Jagr misses a bunch of games.
3rd time Bure is cherrypicking like a madman on a poor team and beats a player having a much better season (Sakic) by 5 goals.

Not to say Bure wasn't a better goalscorer than Kariya but it is much less a difference than you imply.

Btw, the two Rockets were in the later 90s-00s era.

Oh, I am aware. But those have some * on them as everyone who watched at the time knows.

 

[Garbageyuk]

It is a lot more complicated than that.

1st time Lemieux is sitting out.
2nd time Jagr misses a bunch of games.
3rd time Bure is cherrypicking like a madman on a poor team and beats a player having a much better season (Sakic) by 5 goals.

Not to say Bure wasn't a better goalscorer than Kariya but it is much less a difference than you imply.



Oh, I am aware. But those have some * on them as everyone who watched at the time knows.

Even if we entertain your ridiculous argument and treat them as 2nd place finishes (because none of them count, according to you), how many 2nd place finishes does Kariya have?

The answer is zero.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Even if we entertain your ridiculous argument and treat them as 2nd place finishes (because none of them count, according to you), how many 2nd place finishes does Kariya have?

The answer is zero.

Whoosh.