NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[gstommylee]

I missed the part where they are building an arena at this very moment, or are undergoing a season ticket drive. Vegas is lightyears ahead of them right now.

Seattle does not need to do a ticket drive like Vegas does. That says a lot about the potential market. All sodo arena needs right now is a NHL first fund plan. Non of us know rather such a plan exists or still needs to be figured out cause FEIS is still not done and thats concerning the NHL enough to start looking at alternate groups and locations.

 

[brewski420]

I missed the part where they are building an arena at this very moment, or are undergoing a season ticket drive. Vegas is lightyears ahead of them right now.

That is a fact and a building here in Seattle needs the NHL and/or NBA to be built and probably both to be successful which is why dirt has not been moved. All the talk does not mean a thing but at least there's talk. More than I hear about Quebec from the NHL. That is the only smoke I am talking about. /QUOTE]

How so? Key Arena has been needing a replacement for years, if someone in Seattle actually did something and started building an arena regardless of a major tenant I think they'd be fine. Barclays has already taken events from MSG because its brand spankin new. A new Seattle arena would be the same, major events would flock to a nice new state of the art arena.

You haven't missed anything. You just choose to ignore the whole story. That's OK I understand

As far as building without a major tenant or upgrading Key (not really an option for NHL) would be foolish for Seattle. QC can survive probably and may have to with no NHL with their new building. I see no guarantee that the NHL will ever be there. Seattle cannot and none of us who want NHL here would support it. But you know that and keep on talking. :

 

[TheLegend]

That's what's being said publicly though privately the NHL knows what's going on.

Betman came out a while ago and talked about alternate locations for an arena in Seattle. Geoff Baker (seattle times) actually threw out names of potential groups for a 100% privately funded arena at either Tukwila or Bellevue. Tukwila is leading the alternate options.

I'm sure the NHL knows more than what's being put into the public. But that still means nothing.

If Seattle gets an arena under construction started (wherever it may be) then it's a new ball game. Until then..... well......

 

[Gormo]

I actually disagree with your premise.

Remember that this whole thing isn't being run by the NHL where all Vegas has to do is throw 10,000 deposits down and tell the league we want a team. It's run by a group of dudes that are getting ready to drop a huge amount of money to get this franchise here, up, and running.

I put myself in their place and I wouldn't do anything with corporate purchases until I was certain there was a real base of actual people that are going to be the foundation upon which this entire thing is built.

Above and beyond that, I imagine very few of these corporate sales are occurring through the site, which is the only way to place a deposit at this point in time. So he can control what's being counted and what's not. It's definitely not in his best interest to try to push this thing through to hit his own sales goal when the reward for hitting the goal is empty seats and losing tons of money.

If it stalls out at 9,000 or so, I could see throwing some corporate sales in there to hit the goal, but I've got to believe corporate sales don't make up any real part of the 5,000 announced yesterday.

ETA: My fault, I got your post mixed up with another post concerning corporate sales. Point is still somewhat valid, though I hope.

That's a very good point, however by that same token I wouldn't understand why they would choose to manufacture any season ticket sales whatsoever if they are relying that heavily on local support.

If you do that at any point, be it at the onset, or to get over the hump as you say, youll still be left with the exact same problem as far as I can tell.

I figure in that situation it would be important you reach your minimum goals without any kind of bolstering.

I imagine this committee would simply bow out and invest elsewhere if they dont like the ROI.

 

[FlaPantherSwe*]

I will be amazed if they reach this goal within a few months.

In reality, I doubt they'll reach 75% by the 2016-17 season. Not because I don't think there are fans of hockey in Las Vegas, but rather the issue of there likely not being enough people willing to put down money on the hopes of a team.

I may be proved wrong, of course, but this is rather interesting to look at, and also makes me wonder if the league will consider expanding to 32 teams or even 34.

Any other American league with that amount of teams? Its alrdy hard enough to win the Cup as it is

 

[Voight]

Seattle does not need to do a ticket drive like Vegas does. That says a lot about the potential market. All sodo arena needs right now is a NHL first fund plan. Non of us know rather such a plan exists or still needs to be figured out cause FEIS is still not done and thats concerning the NHL enough to start looking at alternate groups and locations.

They don't need to do a season ticket drive? Please. Gimme a break.

You're basically saying Seattle is some magical market that is going to be great for hockey, yet they haven't had a professional team since 1924. They will need a season ticket drive just as Vegas did, they haven't had one because there isn't even a shovel in the ground for an arena.

 

[GindyDraws]

Any other American league with that amount of teams? Its alrdy hard enough to win the Cup as it is

The most, as far as professional leagues go, is the National Football League, with 32 members.

The NBA, MLB, and NHL follow behind with an even 30.

I personally feel the NHL is going to consider expanding to 32 or even 34 simply because they have the ability to, and if a market wants it. I mean, I can see Las Vegas, Seattle, Quebec City, and a second Toronto club as strong possibilties.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They don't need to do a season ticket drive? Please. Gimme a break.

You're basically saying Seattle is some magical market that is going to be great for hockey, yet they haven't had a professional team since 1924. They will need a season ticket drive just as Vegas did, they haven't had one because there isn't even a shovel in the ground for an arena.

Well, they don't need to do a ticket drive to prove themselves as a market. Just like Vegas didn't need to do it either. That was something Foley did for himself rather than the NHL pushing for it. Owners will do it just to get some cash and positive momentum rather than out of necessity to prove the market's worth.

 

[richo]

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this but does the NHL realize that Vegas is just about out of water. Lake Mead is already at a level below the pipes that ship water to Vegas. There's talk of spending like a billion dollars to drill more deeper pipes under the lake, but that's just putting off the inevitable. Putting a pro sports team there is pure insanity. As much as I agree that it makes MUCH more sense for the NHL to expand or move teams to the west, Las Vegas is not a sensible option.

 

[BattleBorn]

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this but does the NHL realize that Vegas is just about out of water. Lake Mead is already at a level below the pipes that ship water to Vegas. There's talk of spending like a billion dollars to drill more deeper pipes under the lake, but that's just putting off the inevitable. Putting a pro sports team there is pure insanity. As much as I agree that it makes MUCH more sense for the NHL to expand or move teams to the west, Las Vegas is not a sensible option.

The vast majority of the water from the Lower Colorado goes to California.

Las Vegas uses 4% of the water from the river. 59% of the water used from the lower Colorado goes to Southern California. If we're out of water, SoCal's got a major issue. We should move the Kings and Ducks due to water concerns if its a good reason to disallow a Vegas team.

 

[gstommylee]

They don't need to do a season ticket drive? Please. Gimme a break.

You're basically saying Seattle is some magical market that is going to be great for hockey, yet they haven't had a professional team since 1924. They will need a season ticket drive just as Vegas did, they haven't had one because there isn't even a shovel in the ground for an arena.

There is never going to be a ticket drive for the Seattle market. It is not needed. The arena issue gets addressed and we will be getting a team. Clear as simple. Putting a team is Seattle is bigger for the league then you realize.

 

[Killion]

They don't need to do a season ticket drive? Please. Gimme a break.... You're basically saying Seattle is some magical market that is going to be great for hockey, yet they haven't had a professional team since 1924. They will need a season ticket drive just as Vegas did, they haven't had one because there isn't even a shovel in the ground for an arena.

What?... You've heard of the old PCHL, WHL etc? Pro hockey in that market right into the 1970's. Twice theyve been granted conditional NHL Franchises though unfortunately financing in one instance and avaricious intent by NBA interests in the other stopped it dead in its tracks. Seattle has long been a market the NHL has coveted and for pretty obvious reasons that unfortunately seem to escape you Shawked. Not sure why exactly. Have you done some research that no ones aware of or what?

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/column...as-nhl-ticket-drive-isn-t-going-well-we-think

Columnist trying to put realistic spin on ticket drive (concedes that Winnipeg holds the record for fastest ticket drive).

Other than the ECHL Wranglers, Vegas also had the IHL Thunder, who were pretty successful in town and very entertaining (including some future NHLers).


(Headline is very misleading)

 

[NHL Hartford]

It's gotten very quiet on this front. I had a feeling it be slow going after the 'Founding 75' herded the LV elite. Should be disconcerting especially considering they were soliciting those 5,000 deposits far before the 36 hours they purported.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

The vast majority of the water from the Lower Colorado goes to California.

Las Vegas uses 4% of the water from the river. 59% of the water used from the lower Colorado goes to Southern California. If we're out of water, SoCal's got a major issue. We should move the Kings and Ducks due to water concerns if its a good reason to disallow a Vegas team.

LA will have the option of desalinization plants. Vegas won't. Phoenix faces a similar crisis in the future as well.

 

[GindyDraws]

I'm sure someone else has mentioned this but does the NHL realize that Vegas is just about out of water. Lake Mead is already at a level below the pipes that ship water to Vegas. There's talk of spending like a billion dollars to drill more deeper pipes under the lake, but that's just putting off the inevitable. Putting a pro sports team there is pure insanity. As much as I agree that it makes MUCH more sense for the NHL to expand or move teams to the west, Las Vegas is not a sensible option.

What about desalination plants in general? Such as working a pipeline system from salt water bodies, including the Pacific Ocean.

Sure, it's expensive, but if Vegas can afford boondoggles, certainly they can afford something practical for the population.

 

[Mightygoose]

http://www.reviewjournal.com/column...as-nhl-ticket-drive-isn-t-going-well-we-think

Columnist trying to put realistic spin on ticket drive (concedes that Winnipeg holds the record for fastest ticket drive).

Other than the ECHL Wranglers, Vegas also had the IHL Thunder, who were pretty successful in town and very entertaining (including some future NHLers).


(Headline is very misleading)

it's a tad premature to say that the season ticket drive isn't going well, they're off to a good start.

It's now been a week since the drive was launched, they should be able to reach their goal though it does look sales have cooled off since the first two days.

 

[TheLegend]

LA will have the option of desalinization plants. Vegas won't. Phoenix faces a similar crisis in the future as well.

Not as much as Southern California will.

De-sal plants are not cheap. And it'll take decades to get any built (because environmentalists will keep suing that it will disrupt the balances in the Pacific.)

 

[IceAce]

It's gotten very quiet on this front. I had a feeling it be slow going after the 'Founding 75' herded the LV elite. Should be disconcerting especially considering they were soliciting those 5,000 deposits far before the 36 hours they purported.

It's been all of a week. Keep in mind, it was also a 3 day holiday weekend. There was no timetable for regularly updates of any kind. They could come out tonight and say they sold 10,000 or they could do it March 17th. Probably wouldn't change much in the league's eyes.

 

[GuelphStormer]

What?... You've heard of the old PCHL, WHL etc? Pro hockey in that market right into the 1970's. Twice theyve been granted conditional NHL Franchises though unfortunately financing in one instance and avaricious intent by NBA interests in the other stopped it dead in its tracks. Seattle has long been a market the NHL has coveted and for pretty obvious reasons that unfortunately seem to escape you Shawked. Not sure why exactly. Have you done some research that no ones aware of or what?

that's all well and good, K, but it would be stupid and arrogant not to do a drive.

it's a valid method for measuring both interest and willingness-to-pay. it's not about feasibility, seattle will likely get by just fine. it's about public relations and understanding the market. look at the hype in vegas around the drive that will lead to a team. that's pre-market gold.

it would be a serious strategic error not to undertake a ticket drive if seattle ever does get the nod.

besides, vegas is doing it right, building an arena and doing a drive. quebec city is doing it right, building an arena and sitting by quietly. so far, seattle has done almost nothing and seems to think it deserves a team.

 

[Killion]

... seattle will likely get by just fine. it's about public relations and understanding the market.
look at the hype in vegas around the drive that will lead to a team. that's pre-market gold.

Oh oh, ok. Fine. Sure. I'll go along with that. Im certain, 110% that they'll do better than just fine
without doing it but sure, why not? Build some serious momentum, "marketng gold" as you put it.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Oh oh, ok. Fine. Sure. I'll go along with that. Im certain, 110% that they'll do better than just fine
without doing it but sure, why not? Build some serious momentum, "marketng gold" as you put it.

come on, Killion, you know as well as anyone here that seattle is not destined to be profitable. that will only come with proper marketing, pricing and intelligent structuring of the team and its corporate relationship with the venue.

it is quite possible that seattle could lose money. it's not unreasonable to think of a team as a tenant with no venue revenues. we don't know who is paying how much for what yet.

 

[Killion]

come on, Killion, you know as well as anyone here that seattle is not destined to be profitable. ...

Im working from the premise that they either manage or control the venue in its entirety or alternatively have a great deal with Hansen at Sodo... so in assuming that, and assuming as well "proper marketing, pricing and intelligent structuring" is in place then no, I dont see them as being money losers. On the contrary, I see them operating in the black.

 

[gstommylee]

come on, Killion, you know as well as anyone here that seattle is not destined to be profitable. that will only come with proper marketing, pricing and intelligent structuring of the team and its corporate relationship with the venue.

it is quite possible that seattle could lose money. it's not unreasonable to think of a team as a tenant with no venue revenues. we don't know who is paying how much for what yet.

Seattle will have one of the biggest local RSN in the league. No team RSN covers that many states. Two of the seattle arena alternate locations options are gonna be 100% private where they own the arena. One of which will be part of a Entertainment district and that site has 66 acres.

 

[NHL Hartford]

It's been all of a week. Keep in mind, it was also a 3 day holiday weekend. There was no timetable for regularly updates of any kind. They could come out tonight and say they sold 10,000 or they could do it March 17th. Probably wouldn't change much in the league's eyes.

The thing is it really hasn't only been a week, they were soliciting deposits wayyy before they officially launched the drive. Also if the interest isn't there now how will they find ST holders once the team (if it ever plays) hits a rough patch on the ice? Or what happens when those LV elite just get bored and stop giving $ and more individuals are forced to step up? If I were the NHL these things would make me pause. If you have to search this hard to find deposits just imagine what happens when you go searching for ST holders after the team misses the playoffs for 3-4-5 years in a row. It be near impossible. This is the time sales should be at their briskest and yet they're being quiet for a reason.