NHL & Vegas Part Deuces Wild: Betting it all on Black (Knights)

[AdmiralsFan24]

Think about it for a minute. In MLB and NFL, all 4 conferences/leagues are composed of teams from coast to coast, yet bettman/nhl are asking you to believe that having 2 eastern time zone teams in the nhl western conference is sacreligious, heresy, a complete non starter? Does that truly make sense to you?

Those are completely different though. The NFL is one game a week. MLB consists of 3 or 4 game series. If you're New York and you head to Seattle, you're there for 3 or 4 games and then you're likely going to Oakland and/or Los Angeles for 3 or 4 games as well.

 

[Tawnos]

Those are completely different though. The NFL is one game a week. MLB consists of 3 or 4 game series. If you're New York and you head to Seattle, you're there for 3 or 4 games and then you're likely going to Oakland and/or Los Angeles for 3 or 4 games as well.

Yeah, the scheduling in those two sports definitely lend themselves better to that kind of alignment.

But in the end, the point here is that alignment is just one of many reasons a Vegas expansion is attractive to the league. The other reasons have been discussed at length in here and we can all agree with them or not.

The league may be making a mistake, but there's no doubt that their rationale, accounting for all aspects, is sound. It isnt like they are unaware of the risk. They're probably more aware of the risk, in a specific sense, than we are.

 

[HamiltonFan]

Those are completely different though. The NFL is one game a week. MLB consists of 3 or 4 game series. If you're New York and you head to Seattle, you're there for 3 or 4 games and then you're likely going to Oakland and/or Los Angeles for 3 or 4 games as well.

MLB still plays over 50 different series per team per year. NBA, which is similar to nhl alignment, has Chicago and Milwaukee in the eastern conference. The point is, if you want to do an east/west conference alignment, all you need to do is take your 30 best markets then draw your north/south line accordingly, dividing into 15 east and 15 west. With any subsequent relocations/expansions, the new line can be drawn, and it would change very little.

If you choose to believe that the nhl has no choice but to add 2 'western' teams to balance the conferences, then go right ahead. It's what the nhl wants you to believe, and their plan appears to be succeeding for the most part. Good for them.

 

[IceAce]

Canada, even more so than the US, has a population skew to the East Coast so you get the unique problem of having to balance out three Canadian franchises in the east (more than the other 3 leagues combined) with the rest of the league and leads to the situation where teams like Detroit and Columbus (up until 2 years ago), Nashville, and Chicago get forced West in the NHL alignment where they don't in other leagues.

The NHL can more easily deal with the four Western Canadian teams from an alignment standpoint because it diesnt nearly have the presence in the Mountain and Pacific time zones of the US that the other leagues do.

This is why the direct comparison to other sports' alignments aren't comparing apples to apples. No other sport has more than one Canadian franchise to deal with. This is why the league is trying to expand to the Westif it does in fact expand, and leave cities like QC for the possible relocation of an Eastern Conference team. If QC was in Saskatchewan they'd be an expansion candidate.

 

[Tawnos]

MLB still plays over 50 different series per team per year. NBA, which is similar to nhl alignment, has Chicago and Milwaukee in the eastern conference. The point is, if you want to do an east/west conference alignment, all you need to do is take your 30 best markets then draw your north/south line accordingly, dividing into 15 east and 15 west. With any subsequent relocations/expansions, the new line can be drawn, and it would change very little.

I don't think the NHL would have any problem having teams in the Eastern conference but in the CTZ if there weren't a majority of teams in the league in the ETZ already.

That's not the reality of the situation. The NHL never had big east to west relocations that other leagues has, especially the NBA and MLB. The Flyers, Islanders, Devils, and Capitals never moved to Oakland, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Dallas (or other western cities) like the Athletics, Giants, Dodgers, and Senators did.

Different histories lead to different sets of issues. The NHL has one of geography.

 

[Tusker]

Vegas is a hub, I can't wait for them to get a team. With the amount of Canadian traffic and the SW teams, the only problem they'll have is with people cheering for the away team.

 

[TheLegend]

Vegas is a hub, I can't wait for them to get a team. With the amount of Canadian traffic and the SW teams, the only problem they'll have is with people cheering for the away team.

Coming from a market with that issue.....

It's not that big of a problem. Especially if the team can become competitive within a short time.

 

[Faltorvo]

No no no. It's not smoke and mirrors. To say it's not set in stone and there are other ways to do it is to say that the league needs to abandon its current alignment model and adopt a totally different system where both conferences span the continent. One isn't inherently better than the other, but the NHL has chosen this model and that requires adherence to the basic principles of it. If they want to change it to the other model, they can. Let's live in this reality though, not an alternate one.

And I'm saying that as a person who thinks the NHL is likely fine with 17/15

i mean to say

it's smoke and mirrors to argue against adding a city right now because they are in the east and because of how things are aligned right now.

if thats the best they can come up with for denying a another city in the east, well thats just horse sht in my books.

 

[Tawnos]

i mean to say

it's smoke and mirrors to argue against adding a city right now because they are in the east and because of how things are aligned right now.

if thats the best they can come up with for denying a another city in the east, well thats just horse sht in my books.

Why? This is a legitimate league structure issue. Bettman represents the interests of the owners. It was pretty clear that the issue of geography was a huge deal during the negotiations for realignment. That makes it legitimate.

Besides, the language you are using is pretty strange to me. The league isn't denying any city anything. There is no law of conservation here. One city's award isn't another city being rebuffed.

There is way more going against eastern Canadian markets than simply the alignment issue. I can name 4 other legitimate issues with those markets off the bat. You can name 1 issue with Las Vegas. You think it's the biggest issue out there and that's fine. But let's stop pretending potential eastern Canadian are flawless.

 

[Brodie]

"Deny" implies that a hypothetical eastern city has a right to an expansion team

 

[gstommylee]

NHL has ultimately say of who gets a team and who doesn't. If they want 16 western located teams and 16 eastern location teams that's within their right. Quebec city being a eastern city only works against them for a expansion team not a team in general if lets say a eastern conference team has to relocate.

Vegas is getting a team cause there isn't any better options out west to partner up with Seattle that are willing to pay a very high expansion fee.

 

[XX]

Vegas is a hub, I can't wait for them to get a team. With the amount of Canadian traffic and the SW teams, the only problem they'll have is with people cheering for the away team.

Those fans tend to patronize local businesses and pay higher ticket prices than average, so they're more than welcome in most markets.

 

[Voight]

NHL has ultimately say of who gets a team and who doesn't. If they want 16 western located teams and 16 eastern location teams that's within their right. Quebec city being a eastern city only works against them for a expansion team not a team in general if lets say a eastern conference team has to relocate.

Vegas is getting a team cause there isn't any better options out west to partner up with Seattle that are willing to pay a very high expansion fee.

This assuming Seattle gets a team, which is a dream right now.

 

[Fugu]

This assuming Seattle gets a team, which is a dream right now.

With 2-3 groups working on all arena possibilities, I think it's more a matter of time than a dream.

 

[TheLegend]

With 2-3 groups working on all arena possibilities, I think it's more a matter of time than a dream.

Me too. But until they get some shovels into the ground they might as well have a dozen groups looking.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Me too. But until they get some shovels into the ground they might as well have a dozen groups looking.

exactly.

vegas has its act together. quebec city has its act together. even hamilton still has its act together.

seattle does not have its act together.

in fact, far from it. and let's be honest, seattle is making it as difficult as possible for the league to remain in love. sooner than later, the league will have no choice but to move on ... and if it still feels a need to tick all the PNW boxes, portland gets a team and seattle loses again.

 

[SKNJD9]

Las Vegas Black Knights.... meh doesn't flow that well.

Vegas Knights or Nevada Knights would be better but I know it will be LV

 

[BattleBorn]

exactly.

vegas has its act together. quebec city has its act together. even hamilton still has its act together.

seattle does not have its act together.

in fact, far from it. and let's be honest, seattle is making it as difficult as possible for the league to remain in love. sooner than later, the league will have no choice but to move on ... and if it still feels a need to tick all the PNW boxes, portland gets a team and seattle loses again.

This isn't an unusual thing for Seattle. The "Seattle Process" involves doing everything possible to build consensus and debate everything until the end of time. Seattle is a beautiful place, and the process works, but things that take years to do in other cities will take decades in Seattle.

They're just recently starting (and potentially cancelling) a project to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct, which was damaged in an earthquake a decade and a half ago and is widely known to likely collapse in the next earthquake.

Seattle is awesome, it's one of my favorite places in the world, but getting anything done within a deadline is not going to happen. Seattle is Seattle.

 

[BattleBorn]

Las Vegas Black Knights.... meh doesn't flow that well.

Vegas Knights or Nevada Knights would be better but I know it will be LV

Black Knights is not set in stone. I fully expect the name to be something completely different. We do know that whatever the name winds up being, it's very very likely to be "Las Vegas" over "Nevada."

 

[brewski420]

exactly.

vegas has its act together. quebec city has its act together. even hamilton still has its act together.

seattle does not have its act together.

in fact, far from it. and let's be honest, seattle is making it as difficult as possible for the league to remain in love. sooner than later, the league will have no choice but to move on ... and if it still feels a need to tick all the PNW boxes, portland gets a team and seattle loses again.

On the surface you may have a point except that Bettman has gone out and talked specifically about locations in Seattle other than the one already with an MOU. Not something he does very much. I think he has said he is aware of the arena in Quebec but not much more. More smoke in Seattle than in Quebec I must say with all due respect. To say Seattle does not have its act together seems to be more wishful thinking on your part. But that is just my opinion as your post was yours.

 

[TheLegend]

On the surface you may have a point except that Bettman has gone out and talked specifically about locations in Seattle other than the one already with an MOU. Not something he does very much. I think he has said he is aware of the arena in Quebec but not much more. More smoke in Seattle than in Quebec I must say with all due respect. To say Seattle does not have its act together seems to be more wishful thinking on your part. But that is just my opinion as your post was yours.

With all due respect.... Quebec City already lit the bonfire. Their arena will be finished by the end of summer.... they have an ownership group in place... contracts signed for operation and concessions. Events are being booked. Their only drawback in regards to the NHL is how they would be aligned. Bettman doesn't have to say much about Quebec... it's right there in front of everyone.

What has Seattle got?? Plenty of smoke.

Sure... Bettman has visited Seattle a few times. But he also said they need to have an arena. All the talk about it means nothing until someone signs the dotted line and they get to moving dirt.

 

[brewski420]

With all due respect.... Quebec City already lit the bonfire. Their arena will be finished by the end of summer.... they have an ownership group in place... contracts signed for operation and concessions. Events are being booked. Their only drawback in regards to the NHL is how they would be aligned. Bettman doesn't have to say much about Quebec... it's right there in front of everyone.

What has Seattle got?? Plenty of smoke.

Sure... Bettman has visited Seattle a few times. But he also said they need to have an arena. All the talk about it means nothing until someone signs the dotted line and they get to moving dirt.

I am just stating an opinion based on recent comments. I have heard nothing from NHL about Quebec, unfortunately because I want to see a team back there. Quebec City's building will be successful with or without the NHL. That is a fact and a building here in Seattle needs the NHL and/or NBA to be built and probably both to be successful which is why dirt has not been moved. All the talk does not mean a thing but at least there's talk. More than I hear about Quebec from the NHL. That is the only smoke I am talking about.

I hope both cities get a team. Really is no need for those in Quebec to downplay Seattle's efforts. Two different situations that have little to no correlation.

Anyways this being a LV thread I would prefer QC and Seattle before Vegas but that's just me.

 

[Voight]

With 2-3 groups working on all arena possibilities, I think it's more a matter of time than a dream.

I missed the part where they are building an arena at this very moment, or are undergoing a season ticket drive. Vegas is lightyears ahead of them right now.

That is a fact and a building here in Seattle needs the NHL and/or NBA to be built and probably both to be successful which is why dirt has not been moved. All the talk does not mean a thing but at least there's talk. More than I hear about Quebec from the NHL. That is the only smoke I am talking about.

How so? Key Arena has been needing a replacement for years, if someone in Seattle actually did something and started building an arena regardless of a major tenant I think they'd be fine. Barclays has already taken events from MSG because its brand spankin new. A new Seattle arena would be the same, major events would flock to a nice new state of the art arena.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Media are just drooling over the possibility of getting a free trip to vegas every year.

That's why you're hearing so much about it.

 

[gstommylee]

Sure... Bettman has visited Seattle a few times. But he also said they need to have an arena. All the talk about it means nothing until someone signs the dotted line and they get to moving dirt.

That's what's being said publicly though privately the NHL knows what's going on.

Betman came out a while ago and talked about alternate locations for an arena in Seattle. Geoff Baker (seattle times) actually threw out names of potential groups for a 100% privately funded arena at either Tukwila or Bellevue. Tukwila is leading the alternate options.