NHL to Atlanta odds just increased significantly

[These Are The Days]

So how old is he now......the superstar kid that picked up a stick instead of a football because the Atalanta Thrashers had team in his hometown?

This was about having a 3rd team expand in a few seasons and in 25 years there could be a player from Atlanta who has that career. Hell there could be a kid born this morning in Nashville that does it. The point is that expansion isn't this evil everyone says it is

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

all the concern people have about talent levels with expansion sounds so silly when you look at what Vegas and Seattle have managed to do with other teams castoffs and depth players

That's the point. The fact that they've done what they done with cast offs is a symptom of a watered down pool

 

[PaulD]

Can Hartford support a team?

Can Atlanta ?

I miss the Whalers Bruins fans rivalry

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Can Atlanta ?

I miss the Whalers Bruins rivalry

I miss the Whalers, but, as a city, Hartford is pretty minor league. With decent owners, I think Atlanta can

 

[McShogun99]

Based on what? And before you say they "failed twice", remember that a lot of other markets (Dever, QC, Peg...) have had teams move as well.

Atlanta's main demographic is more into the NBA, MLB and NFL. You'd probably have initial success since the team will be the shiny new toy but once that shine is gone you'll be seeing another move by Atlanta to another market. Doesn't matter how big the city is, if no one cares about hockey then it won't work.

 

[Dhockey16]

If they expand to 34 they're going to have to stack the expansion draft even more heavily than they did for Vegas/Seattle. If relocation, the 'Yotes are actually a promising team but that reignites the east/west balance issue. It's easy to see why the NHL wants the Atlanta market but things will need to be good immediately and stay that way for some time. Is there a prospective owner in Atlanta? One who can pony up a billion+? I remain skeptical. The arena issue is outside the NHL's control on some basic level, but other than that I can't see a single reason to prefer Atlanta to Houston.

That said, my prediction is that the NHL expands to both in the next 10 years. The Coyotes will probably end up in Utah (which will succeed immediately, I'll bet the state takes a liking to hockey disproportionate to the population size - how sick would a BYU D-I team be?) and Quebec City will be kept as an emergency relocation option (hard to see that now, Florida
is oft-mentioned but they're cup contenders at the moment and seemingly doing fine financially. Maybe Ottawa?)

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Atlanta's main demographic is more into the NBA, MLB and NFL. You'd probably have initial success since the team will be the shiny new toy but once that shine is gone you'll be seeing another move by Atlanta to another market. Doesn't matter how big the city is, if no one cares about hockey then it won't work.

Main demographic? Not sure what you’d define that as but all of the other major and college sports are successful. Nashville’s hockey team , which does great, is only a 3 hour drive north. And since the Thrashers left, the city has grown by over a million people. So not sure what your post is based on.

 

[DustyDangler]

How many teams do we need f***ing 40? How does Canada only have 7.

Because Bettman is very committed to the Winnipeg market and is not vexed by their inability to show up for one of the best teams in the league. Thus, Canada doesn't have 6.

 

[Green]

I'm happy for the fans who lost their team, but I really hope there's a better plan to make this work this time.

I suppose the more beneficial expansion drafts rules that Vegas and Seattle got compared to past teams will help. Having a franchise start out in the basement for years is not an easy way to build a fan base.

Yes let's keep on screwing over the existing teams so these new teams can hopefully win a cup in their first few years, if you want an expansion team pay you dues, start from the bottom, real fans who are hungry for a team will support them in that period and if they don't they don't deserve a team

 

[Dhockey16]

Because Bettman is very committed to the Winnipeg market and is not vexed by their inability to show up for one of the best teams in the league. Thus, Canada doesn't have 6.

You're both missing the mark. The best possible place to put a new team is in Canada - Toronto/GTA. Vancouver 2 not terribly far behind. Neither will happen, of course.

 

[AKL]

You're both missing the mark. The best possible place to put a new team is in Canada - Toronto/GTA. Vancouver 2 not terribly far behind. Neither will happen, of course.

Can you describe what percentage of the GTA population isn't already a fan of an existing team, namely the Leafs, that would suddenly become a fan of the new GTA team?

MLSE and the NHL have millions of reasons not to want another expansion team in Toronto. It's just not gonna happen. Let it go.

Vancouver 2 is very, very, very far behind.

 

[cowboy82nd]

The fans shouldn't agree to this unless they bring back best on best tournaments to supplement for the lack of talent on NHL teams. I'm not signing anything without that agreement in place.

This made me laugh.

 

[DustyDangler]

You're both missing the mark. The best possible place to put a new team is in Canada - Toronto/GTA. Vancouver 2 not terribly far behind. Neither will happen, of course.

You're not wrong. A 2nd Toronto team should be the next CA expansion.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

You're both missing the mark. The best possible place to put a new team is in Canada - Toronto/GTA. Vancouver 2 not terribly far behind. Neither will happen, of course.

The NHL doesn't "put" teams anywhere. Somebody ponies up a stadium deal and a $1 billion check and then dares the NHL to reject them, which will never happen because the existing owners like the free bucks. If somebody came up with a stadium deal and $1 billion dollars in Tijuana, then welcome aboard the Sombreros. The reason that there are no new Canadian teams has utterly nothing to do with the NHL, and everything to do with nobody in Canada coming up with a stadium deal and the $1 billion check.

 

[Stephen]

I think the hate for Georgia to have an NHL team once again is somewhat unwarranted. Considering Forsyth County is a hockey-affliated city already and the town is developing an "entertainment hub" with the arena planned to be developed right in the heart of it... I'd be interested to see what kind of franchise this could be if they bring back the Thrashers.

The reason the Thrashers sucked before is because the owners failed to commit investing into a hockey franchise as other, bigger sports were more interesting avenues as revenue-bringers long term. If they have reputable, honest ownership this time, I can see a fairly successful resurgence.

Minnesota got a 2nd shot at an NHL team in 2000, one year after the Thrashers joined the league. They have made the conference finals once, and only twice otherwise have made round 2. Last time in 2015. Even after the summer 2012 Free Agent splash they pulled off. This is not a shot at the franchise, but merely an example.

...Now the argument against adding yet another team into this league and throw off the 16 team conference balance we currently have, I can jump on board with.

Don't think Minnesota would be the most natural comparison to Atlanta, due to geography and the popularity of hockey in that state at a real grassroots level. They lost their original team during the mom and pop era of the NHL when Norman Green and the Gund Brothers (unmerged?) the North Stars and spun them off into San Jose and Dallas...

Yeah, why not go back to Atlanta. It's not like they have to stay there if it doesn't work out.

 

[Dhockey16]

Main demographic? Not sure what you’d define that as but all of the other major and college sports are successful. Nashville’s hockey team , which does great, is only a 3 hour drive north. And since the Thrashers left, the city has grown by over a million people. So not sure what your post is based on.

He's talking about Black people. I don't understand why a frank discussion about this can't be had. Demographics in a given market are relevant both to the present state and future of the league and the game at large. Anyone who knows the American South can tell you the difference in the demographic makeup of Nashville & Atlanta. The NHL has been somewhat shrewd here (or foolish depending on your POV) - they went to Nashville, not Memphis. Instead of Charlotte they surprised by going to Raleigh. The choice was Columbus instead of Cleveland or Cincinnati. The Panthers have settled nicely into Sunrise, a solid 30 miles outside of Miami. That the league is so excited about this arena may well have something to do with it being in Forsyth County - not Cobb County. None of this is a value judgement, simply observation.

Each move individually exposed the game to new fans and a more diverse audience while recognizing the reality that hockey is disproportionately popular with wealthy people and white people. Efforts to diversify the game are laudable and there has been some success - but it is a long term project. The NHL seems to recognize this.

 

[tarheelhockey]

It’s possible. I was told of the atlanta nhl movement a couple years ago before it even became a topic that was hinted at by ANYONE in the media

I’m speaking more specifically to the idea that it’s a “done deal” and therefore the arena proceeds.

Something like this doesn’t become a done deal without anyone noticing. More likely, there’s a level of seriousness being expressed that satisfied the arena authority.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Just looking at the map, Forsyth County is on the far Northeast edge of the Atlanta Metro. It's 25 miles from downtown to the entertainment district.

Yes previous teams suffered from being inaccessible to some fans, being in downtown meant being far from the NE burbs. But this district is also far from downtown and far from most of suburban Atlanta.

The problem in Atlanta is that the whole thing is just too sprawly, not enough density to support some big city amenities.

Which is the point. No one wants to go to downtown Atlanta. It is an absolute shithole these days.

North of the perimeter is where a team would thrive. Forsyth is a quick shot up highway 400. The Battery where the Braves play is absolutely thriving and this would be built to mimic the battery.

With a half competent ownership group, it is practically guaranteed to succeed.

 

[BTO]

Can you describe what percentage of the GTA population isn't already a fan of an existing team, namely the Leafs, that would suddenly become a fan of the new GTA team?

MLSE and the NHL have millions of reasons not to want another expansion team in Toronto. It's just not gonna happen. Let it go.

Vancouver 2 is very, very, very far behind.

Me!

The NHL doesn't "put" teams anywhere. Somebody ponies up a stadium deal and a $1 billion check and then dares the NHL to reject them, which will never happen because the existing owners like the free bucks. If somebody came up with a stadium deal and $1 billion dollars in Tijuana, then welcome aboard the Sombreros. The reason that there are no new Canadian teams has utterly nothing to do with the NHL, and everything to do with nobody in Canada coming up with a stadium deal and the $1 billion check.

^This

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

He's talking about Black people. I don't understand why a frank discussion about this can't be had. Demographics in a given market are relevant both to the present state and future of the league and the game at large. Anyone who knows the American South can tell you the difference in the demographic makeup of Nashville & Atlanta. The NHL has been somewhat shrewd here (or foolish depending on your POV) - they went to Nashville, not Memphis. Instead of Charlotte they surprised by going to Raleigh. The choice was Columbus instead of Cleveland or Cincinnati. The Panthers have settled nicely into Sunrise, a solid 30 miles outside of Miami. That the league is so excited about this arena may well have something to do with it being in Forsyth County - not Cobb County. None of this is a value judgement, simply observation.

Each move individually exposed the game to new fans and a more diverse audience while recognizing the reality that hockey is disproportionately popular with wealthy people and white people. Efforts to diversify the game are laudable and there has been some success - but it is a long term project. The NHL seems to recognize this.

The NHL didn't pick those cities. A rich billionaire did. The NHL didn't pick Sunrise over downtown Miami. A rich billionaire (getting a ton of incentives) did.

I'm not sure where to go with the rest of the post. The Braves moved to Cobb County and has been among the top teams for attendance over the last several years. They based the move (aside from tax incentives and available land) on location of their ticket purchasers. My guess is that the Gathering is based on similar data. Not sure.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

To make things right in the world they have to be the Thrashers.

The fun explaining that to folks in the future.

So the Winnipeg Jets are a team? Yes. Same team from the 70s? Nope. They went on to become the Arizona Coyotes.

Okay so the Atlanta Thrashers are a team that's been around a while? Nope. They're the Winnipeg Jets.

So who are the Thrashers? A new franchise with no connection to the previous franchise other than name and location just like the Winnipeg Jets.

Holy f***.

 

[mouser]

I'll believe it when a rich person hands Bettman a billion dollar check. Until then, an arena development plan isn't a guarantee of a team coming in. When Kansas City got an arena, everyone knew that it was only a matter of time before they'd get an NHL and/or NBA team. And yet it never happened, as the owners are happy with it printing money as an event venue.

That being said, as for talent dillution, just a reminder that star players feast when opponents are weak. There's a reason why Gretzky thrived in an era when the NHL was adding a team practically every other year.

Contrary to popular myths, the Kansas City arena remains a net annual loss for the (local government) owners. The arena is generating annual operating profits from events, but those profits aren’t enough to cover the annual arena construction bond payments.

 

[Dhockey16]

The NHL didn't pick those cities. A rich billionaire did. The NHL didn't pick Sunrise over downtown Miami. A rich billionaire (getting a ton of incentives) did.

I'm not sure where to go with the rest of the post. The Braves moved to Cobb County and has been among the top teams for attendance over the last several years. They based the move (aside from tax incentives and available land) on location of their ticket purchasers. My guess is that the Gathering is based on similar data. Not sure.

I think the NHL exerts a great deal more influence on the process than you suggest, but the distinction is a fair one as owners do ultimately make most of these decisions. The NHL has said no to a billionaire before - Blackberry guy tried multiple times and was denied when the company was at its zenith. Dodged a bullet on that one.

My fundamental point was on the demographic question. I don't think your Nashville-Atlanta comparison is a good one. Atlanta is not just a bigger Nashville - the demographic composition of the two cities contrasts, starkly. Atlanta Metro is genuinely huge, though, and if done right it can work. Forsyth seems like the perfect location for an arena.

 

[LuckyDay]

except the WHA had a lot of NHL talent playing in it

not the same at all

I'm guessing you weren't around then. Fans of other teams made the same spurious arguments. You realize they weren't allowed to keep most of their players? Most of the NHL wanted all their rights honoured and wanted to force the WHA teams to start over in the draft. For the most part they did. Blaire McDonald was a rising star on Gretzky's wing that first year. You remember "BJ", right? right?

It was exactly the same thing. The NHL already expanded to 16 teams and now they were taking on for more small market teams with the same pool. How many of those teams are still in the same city now? Yours.

 

[Hobble]

Didn’t QC build or renovate a new arena to NHL standards, and has been waiting in the wings for ages?