League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2021-2 Regular Season Edition, Vol. 2

[twabby]

Please do not look at the SEA @ ARI box score!

 

[Peeri]

Please do not look at the SEA @ ARI box score!

Should surprise nobody. His shot is like made for PP, too bad he wasn't in the position to utilize it here.

 

[Hivemind]

Should surprise nobody. His shot is like made for PP, too bad he wasn't in the position to utilize it here.

Yeah, not like the powerplay was awful for three straight months . Absolutely no room to try out some of the team's best snipers on that unit!

 

[Langway]

Vrana also scored twice last night while we're at it.

 

[twabby]

And according to some metrics Jonas Siegenthaler is one of the best defensive defensemen in the game right now!

 

[twabby]

Zdeno Chara is a trash fire in NYI, however.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Vrana also scored twice last night while we're at it.

 

[g00n]

The whole point of a trade is to create a win-win. Both players/teams get benefit.

If you screw the other team every time then nobody will trade with you.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The whole point of a trade is to create a win-win. Both players/teams get benefit.

If you screw the other team every time then nobody will trade with you.

That’s right…..I fully expect Sprong to succeed in Seattle where expectations are low and ice time is high….

 

[g00n]

That’s right…..I fully expect Sprong to succeed in Seattle where expectations are low and ice time is high….

I think there's some subliminal notion among fans that a traded player doing well elsewhere means your own team f***ed up. This is especially true of fans who liked that player and never thought he got a fair shake.

I don't think that's the case. If a player doesn't do well with one team but flourishes elsewhere it could be due to any number of factors, and doesn't mean that player would've eventually come to life with your own team.

If a player keeps getting traded and never catches on anywhere you can be more certain the player is the problem.

/obv

 

[twabby]

This looks pretty bad from all parties, including the NHL for initially signing off on the trade. How do they not verify the status of Dadonov’s NTC before signing off on the trade?

And Vegas had to know too, right? They seem like a bunch of dirtbags at this point.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This looks pretty bad from all parties, including the NHL for initially signing off on the trade. How do they not verify the status of Dadonov’s NTC before signing off on the trade?

And Vegas had to know too, right? They seem like a bunch of dirtbags at this point.

Any cap issues from this?

 

[Hivemind]

And Vegas had to know too, right? They seem like a bunch of dirtbags at this point.

The story I've seen tweeted is that Vegas claims that they were never told of Dadonov's NTC when they traded for him in the first place. But that seems fishy given that he submitted one to them in July.

e; Haven't read it in great detail, but main boards seems to be pointing the blame at Ottawa for this one

 

[traparatus]

I think there's some subliminal notion among fans that a traded player doing well elsewhere means your own team f***ed up. This is especially true of fans who liked that player and never thought he got a fair shake.

I don't think that's the case. If a player doesn't do well with one team but flourishes elsewhere it could be due to any number of factors, and doesn't mean that player would've eventually come to life with your own team.

If a player keeps getting traded and never catches on anywhere you can be more certain the player is the problem.

/obv

Don't you have to look at this through the prism of team success?

I agree that player's success post trade is no indication that he would have eventually succeeded on your team. However, if the team that traded a player fails to achieve some measure of success, doesn't that show that the problem lies with the team and not the player? Maybe the team should adapt it's way to accommodate the player instead of jettisoning players who do not fit a failing system.

I do not want to dwell on Sprong too much as I consider him to be a very flawed player but going further back, I cannot comprehend how a player like Burakovsky can have a place on probably the fastest, most talent laden roster in the league but Caps old ass, slow as molasses team had no room for him.

 

[g00n]

Don't you have to look at this through the prism of team success?

I agree that player's success post trade is no indication that he would have eventually succeeded on your team. However, if the team that traded a player fails to achieve some measure of success, doesn't that show that the problem lies with the team and not the player? Maybe the team should adapt it's way to accommodate the player instead of jettisoning players who do not fit a failing system.

I do not want to dwell on Sprong too much as I consider him to be a very flawed player but going further back, I cannot comprehend how a player like Burakovsky can have a place on probably the fastest, most talent laden roster in the league but Caps old ass, slow as molasses team had no room for him.

Do you think they'd have traded Burakovsky if he'd produced at the level he's established in CO?

 

[HTFN]

The story I've seen tweeted is that Vegas claims that they were never told of Dadonov's NTC when they traded for him in the first place. But that seems fishy given that he submitted one to them in July.

e; Haven't read it in great detail, but main boards seems to be pointing the blame at Ottawa for this one

As far as I can tell it just seems to be because Dorion is easier to make fun of, because I can’t figure out a reality where Vegas wouldn’t even casually inquire about it just to make sure things are on the level.

 

[HTFN]

Do you think they'd have traded Burakovsky if he'd produced at the level he's established in CO?

Burakovsky was the little brother of like 20 other men here and wouldn’t have grown a lick anyway.

 

[pman25]

How close is Vegas getting to just straight up circumventing the cap? Are they out of tricks at this point?

I know they can probably abuse LTIR but is it really that easy to do? Like once they’re healthy they must be activated off LTIR and I imagine the league has some sort of process to verify this and when players must come off. We poke fun at the Kucherov thing but that was masterful by Tampa to schedule a hip surgery 6 months from when playoffs are expected to start. Vegas is just winging it!

 

[PlushMinus]

Any cap issues from this?

lol yep they are screwed. You have to love it.

Cap space 400K
Stone on LTIR - 9.5 mill cap hit.
Martinez on LTIR - 5.25 mill cap hit.

And they're currently out of the playoffs

 

[twabby]

I don’t mind a team making aggressive moves but this was clearly a breach of contract that Vegas should have known about so it kind of sours me on them.

 

[traparatus]

Do you think they'd have traded Burakovsky if he'd produced at the level he's established in CO?

Obviously, no. That's the point, though.

Caps couldn't fit this player on their roster or effectively integrate him in their system. At the same time, this roster/system hasn't enjoyed much success since and has been on a clear down trend. No room for Burakovsky on the Caps but there is on Avalanche. How does that make any sense?

As it relates to Sprong, I think this team desperately needs the offensive element that this player brings but has spent a couple of seasons focusing on everything that the player does wrong.

I said it before. It would in no way surprise me if Sprong is next year's version of Anthony Duclair. A cheap and effective cog in a successful and potent offense.

 

[g00n]

Obviously, no. That's the point, though.

Caps couldn't fit this player on their roster or effectively integrate him in their system. At the same time, this roster/system hasn't enjoyed much success since and has been on a clear down trend. No room for Burakovsky on the Caps but there is on Avalanche. How does that make any sense?

As it relates to Sprong, I think this team desperately needs the offensive element that this player brings but has spent a couple of seasons focusing on everything that the player does wrong.

I said it before. It would in no way surprise me if Sprong is next year's version of Anthony Duclair. A cheap and effective cog in a successful and potent offense.

I just don't understand the point about Bura. He had like 4 years here including plenty of time moving up and down the top 9. He had mental issues he tried to address. Every time he moved up a line he stopped producing. When he got a shock to his system and moved down he produced more.

It's not like he was a consistent healthy scratch. He was in their plans and was scratched a few times in the Cup run to get him re-focused, iirc.

If he'd had his awakening while still in DC he'd never have been traded. I don't think it was a system thing so much as not delivering the goods based on expectations.

 

[traparatus]

I just don't understand the point about Bura. He had like 4 years here including plenty of time moving up and down the top 9. He had mental issues he tried to address. Every time he moved up a line he stopped producing. When he got a shock to his system and moved down he produced more.

It's not like he was a consistent healthy scratch. He was in their plans and was scratched a few times in the Cup run to get him re-focused, iirc.

If he'd had his awakening while still in DC he'd never have been traded. I don't think it was a system thing so much as not delivering the goods based on expectations.

I hear you. I just disagree.

 

[caps4cup]

In his rookie season, his most common linemates were Mojo, Ovechkin, and Backstrom.

The next season, they were Kuznetsov and Williams (by far). That line was outscored at 5v5 on a team that ran away with the Presidents Trophy.

The next year, he played mostly with Eller and Connolly on the 3rd line, which was likely reasonable considering the top 6’s performance that year, and how his 2nd line performed the year prior.

In the Cup year, he spent pretty much identical time with Backstrom/Oshie and Eller/Connolly. His GF% with Backstrom was actually absurd (21GF - 5GA). His analytics were good as well but not nearly that strong (53% xGF%). His numbers with Eller and Connolly were pretty terrible in the regular season, but then they did have a really strong playoffs (which we all remember).

So obviously, the next year they stuck with the Cup lines, which makes sense as Vrana did take a step forward and was seen as the better player at that point (which he was).

To be honest, that Cup run probably screwed Bura out of the top 6 because they became dug into those forward lines. Burakovsky-Eller-Connolly was really good in that playoff run but was pretty bad during the regular season from 16/17-18/19. Burakovsky actually put up a lot better results and analytics with Backstrom in the regular season than he did with Eller. To be fair, Backstrom’s analytics were pretty much the same with both Vrana and Burakovsky from 16/17-18/19 so it’s not like Burakovsky being with Nick affected him too much.

Other than that, he’s also getting a lot more PP time and producing more on the man advantage, and his finishing has gotten a lot better. His 5v5 S/60 and iXG/60 are both lower in COL than they were in WSH but his SH% has ballooned.

I do think he got a pretty fair shake in WSH getting to play a ton of time with a prime-ish Backstrom as his center, along with solid wingers in Oshie, Johansson, and Ovechkin. The one area he probably missed out on was more PP time, but even if he got an extra minute of PP time a game, that’s likely only adding 5-10 points to his totals per year in Washington. He’s definitely benefitted being in COL on a team that pretty much had nothing in the skilled winger department besides Landeskog and Rantanen, coming from a team that for most of his time here, had Wilson on the 4th line. At the end of the day, I would’ve liked him to figure it out here, but he likely just needed a change of scenery, which happens sometimes.

 

[YippieKaey]

Obviously, no. That's the point, though.

Caps couldn't fit this player on their roster or effectively integrate him in their system. At the same time, this roster/system hasn't enjoyed much success since and has been on a clear down trend. No room for Burakovsky on the Caps but there is on Avalanche. How does that make any sense?

As it relates to Sprong, I think this team desperately needs the offensive element that this player brings but has spent a couple of seasons focusing on everything that the player does wrong.

I said it before. It would in no way surprise me if Sprong is next year's version of Anthony Duclair. A cheap and effective cog in a successful and potent offense.

I think with Bura we already had a similar player in Vrana and to some extent Kuznetsov. If im not mistaken the picks we got for Bura were used to trade up to be able to draft Lapierre. So might pay off in the long run. Running a team is like a 10-year horizon at all times