GDT: NHL Free Agent Frenzy 2024

[dahrougem2]

With goalie's - honestly? No - for me it's about wins / losses only. For many reasons. If we won 99% of our games, and our goalie had a .753 save percentage, I'd 100% be okay with them. It's a team sport, and every cog plays a part of the success or failure. I mean, could our defense had played better in front of Georgie? Could our forwards be better two ways? Who knows.

What I do know is that we once AGAIN came in the top 10 in the entire league, Georgiev got more games than most goalies, and got more wins than any other.

You are basically arguing here that no matter if Georgiev sucks, you'll think he is great because the Avs would be winning.

Insanity.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

It's a sad day

 

[Murzu]

Why are you guys arguing with Sea Eagles? The guy would love Hunter Miska if he was our #1G.

@Sea Eagles, to be honest: your takes are the most homer ones I have ever seen, but I love the fact that you absolutely worship the team. With all the negativity around here, it's fun to see. Keep it up!

 

[CobraAcesS]

The goaltending concerns me, but it also does not.

If George finally uncorked his head in the playoffs permanently. Then I think we see a more consistent player.

If not, fire him to the moon, but the team rallied around him and he was a lot better. So as many things are with this team, he could be good, or it will be time to move on.

I'd rather not take the chance in the playoffs if it looks like other things are falling into place, but there may not be a better option with the cap issues and teams not wanting to let the Avs turn into monster zero again.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

See, that is a flawed argument. As hench mentions below, wins/losses are a team stat. This would be akin to being in a workplace where you have a team project and you've got one team member frequently being a massive burden (deleting parts of the excel sheet, having terrible communication skills with the clients you're working with, showing up late regularly). The project itself may be a massive success, but that is in spite of the one lagging team member and not due to them.

I've said this before. With the way the Avs are constructed, and will be constructed in the future I think they need to heavily invest in trying to find a true upper echelon goalie. They need someone who can steal them some wins, and to provide some confidence on the back end. Right now they have a goalie that costs them wins, and that makes the team have to cover for his mess. The man averaged 3GAA which means that the Avs had to regularly score 4+ goals to have a shot at winning. That's not great. 37 games this year he let in 3+ goals, of those games 25 of them he let in 4+. 58.7% of his games he's forcing the team to score 4+ goals, 37% of those games they need to score 5+. That's incredibly demoralizing for the team in front of you, that puts a lot of pressure on the top guys to regularly beat their opponents. By the way, the Avs were able to outscore their goalie giving up 3+ goals 14 times this year to get the W.

Long rant short, Georgie ain't helping the team to win. At his best, I would say he's at least the reason they aren't losing, at his worst he is 100% the reason the team lost. The Avs could get away with this level of goaltending when they had a bunch of cheaper contracts and guys outplaying their contracts, they can't afford that anymore. They need a goalie that can legitimately steal games, and where his average is that he contributes to wins.

By saying the Avs as currently constructed need a goalie that can steal games admitting that the Avs aren't very good?

I don't disagree at all. But if the team as currently constructed needs a goalie capable of stealing games to go anywhere in the playoffs. You're not a good team. And getting a goalie capable of stealing games with any reliability is going to cost assets in a trade and cap room. Which further weakens the rest of the roster.

The only solution is to trade Rantanen and rebuild.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The goaltending concerns me, but it also does not.

If George finally uncorked his head in the playoffs permanently. Then I think we see a more consistent player.

If not, fire him to the moon, but the team rallied around him and he was a lot better. So as many things are with this team, he could be good, or it will be time to move on.

I'd rather not take the chance in the playoffs if it looks like other things are falling into place, but there may not be a better option with the cap issues and teams not wanting to let the Avs turn into monster zero again.

I don’t think his play in the playoffs is good enough for us to compete tbf.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

By saying the Avs as currently constructed need a goalie that can steal games admitting that the Avs aren't very good?

I don't disagree at all. But if the team as currently constructed needs a goalie capable of stealing games to go anywhere in the playoffs. You're not a good team. And getting a goalie capable of stealing games with any reliability is going to cost assets in a trade and cap room. Which further weakens the rest of the roster.

The only solution is to trade Rantanen and rebuild.

Simplified: The Avs have the top end talent to win games from out of nowhere, they need a goalie that doesn't lose them games.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I don’t think his play in the playoffs is good enough for us to compete tbf.

Which body part do we cut off to improve it just enough? I just don't see a clear cut option. Goalies are sort of separating into very good, and the rest being a dice roll.

They're going to have to restructure for real if you want that level of starting goalie. Or get lucky with a younger player breaking out. They probably will have to gamble again at some point anyway though if they keep things this way.

 

[henchman21]

I don’t think his play in the playoffs is good enough for us to compete tbf.

~.4 GSAA/60 worse than Otter. Which basically means the Avs have to be a half goal per game better to win a series. To put this in reference... the Avs were 10th in xGF/60 at 3.21. To overcome that difference in pure raw xGF/60... you'd have to go down to the Canadiens at 29th.

George simply wasn't good enough, even in a series where he wasn't horrible.

 

[CobraAcesS]

By saying the Avs as currently constructed need a goalie that can steal games admitting that the Avs aren't very good?

I don't disagree at all. But if the team as currently constructed needs a goalie capable of stealing games to go anywhere in the playoffs. You're not a good team. And getting a goalie capable of stealing games with any reliability is going to cost assets in a trade and cap room. Which further weakens the rest of the roster.

The only solution is to trade Rantanen and rebuild.

I can't see this team working long term with his raise, but Drouin, Landeskog, and Nuke all have their question marks. Drouin is becoming less so, but he's only signed for a year, and that ass only gets bigger if he proves the second half of last season is the normal along side Mack.

It's definitely not an easy choice. If Mikko has even slight conditioning issues again I think it's clear you move on though.

 

[CobraAcesS]

~.4 GSAA/60 worse than Otter. Which basically means the Avs have to be a half goal per game better to win a series. To put this in reference... the Avs were 10th in xGF/60 at 3.21. To overcome that difference in pure raw xGF/60... you'd have to go down to the Canadiens at 29th.

George simply wasn't good enough, even in a series where he wasn't horrible.

Yeah, but his play was so wildly inconsistent it's difficult to know what you're going to get.

I get the numbers show that's a problem though.

It's an argument for not keeping him, but I think like many other things they'll wait and see what has to be addressed after a healthy portion of the season happens.

 

[Cake Malar]

Not sure what thread this is supposed to go in:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811073898324045846

 

[CobraAcesS]

Not sure what thread this is supposed to go in:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811073898324045846

Did those two actually play together?

 

[henchman21]

Yeah, but his play was so wildly inconsistent it's difficult to know what you're going to get.

I get the numbers show that's a problem though.

It's an argument for not keeping him, but I think like many other things they'll wait and see what has to be addressed after a healthy portion of the season happens.

I wouldn't say he was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs outside of game one. He ranged between average and below average in most of the games. A couple good games and one really, really awful game. It is just that level makes it pretty hard to compete. Dallas was probably somewhere between a 3rd and 6th in team quality depending on how you evaluate them. In order to beat them, the rest of the team outside George would have needed to be a half goal better than the Stars. That is an incredibly tough hill to climb.

I don't think George is going anywhere for a number of reasons, but for the Avs to contend with him, they're going to have to be a top 3 team elsewhere on the ice and have a bit of luck. Being the 6th-8th best team elsewhere and having George as the goalie points to a 2nd round exit.

Did those two actually play together?

Two full seasons. Hinote would bring good experience to the AHL team, but I'm not sure he's all that great of a coach at the NHL level. The results have been less than impressive so far.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Did those two actually play together?

03-04, and 05-06

 

[Grackle Party]

Did those two actually play together?

I was gonna say is his source Dan Hinote?

 

[CobraAcesS]

I wouldn't say he was wildly inconsistent in the playoffs outside of game one. He ranged between average and below average in most of the games. A couple good games and one really, really awful game. It is just that level makes it pretty hard to compete. Dallas was probably somewhere between a 3rd and 6th in team quality depending on how you evaluate them. In order to beat them, the rest of the team outside George would have needed to be a half goal better than the Stars. That is an incredibly tough hill to climb.

I don't think George is going anywhere for a number of reasons, but for the Avs to contend with him, they're going to have to be a top 3 team elsewhere on the ice and have a bit of luck. Being the 6th-8th best team elsewhere and having George as the goalie points to a 2nd round exit.


Two full seasons. Hinote would bring good experience to the AHL team, but I'm not sure he's all that great of a coach at the NHL level. The results have been less than impressive so far.

I know this, I don't want to relive the post Roy era again lol. It's going to be painful if they keep having mediocrity at the position and can't be a good enough team to overcome it.

Part of me absolutely wants them to retool if things don't fall into place this season.

We know Mack, Makar, Toews, Mitts, and Miles Wood will be here the following season. That's about it.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Not sure what thread this is supposed to go in:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1811073898324045846

Head scout, PK coach, hell let him play 4C. Whatever he wants it can't be worse than what is currently there.

 

[Sea Eagles]

Why are you guys arguing with Sea Eagles? The guy would love Hunter Miska if he was our #1G.

@Sea Eagles, to be honest: your takes are the most homer ones I have ever seen, but I love the fact that you absolutely worship the team. With all the negativity around here, it's fun to see. Keep it up!

But haven't I been proven more of a realist than a homer? I basically claim we have world leading players, coaches, fans, management, owners in sports. Their results back that up. We can beat anyone. We win Stanley Cups. We are a destination of choice for players. Our players win best players in their positions. We have the best forward and D-man (and possibly right winger) on the planet - in ONE team. We develop like no others. We draft like no others. We trade like no others.

Is what it is, mate.

 

[missionAvs]

But haven't I been proven more of a realist than a homer? I basically claim we have world leading players, coaches, fans, management, owners in sports. Their results back that up. We can beat anyone. We win Stanley Cups. We are a destination of choice for players. Our players win best players in their positions. We have the best forward and D-man (and possibly right winger) on the planet - in ONE team. We develop like no others. We draft like no others. We trade like no others.

Is what it is, mate.

You must be on the same shit as Nuke...

 

[Sea Eagles]

You are basically arguing here that no matter if Georgiev sucks, you'll think he is great because the Avs would be winning.

Insanity.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm suggesting more goes into goal tending than just the form of the goalie. It's a team sport, and he has players in front of him. I think about it like this (and I've spoken about it before on these boards):

It's akin to us when we had Steve Downie. A very polarizing player. Was he the most skilled, or disciplined player? No. But we literally lit it up when he was here. Was it FG that traded him away? Not sure. But anyways, we traded Downie away and acquired M Talbot (an awesome player in his own right).

But we fell off a cliff for a while results wise. Why? Chemistry. All that parts and cogs in the wheel changed. Same can be said of Georgiev. Why is it Stolarz & Bobrovski are 1 & 3 for GAA this past season proper? Are they both industry leading? Or could it be the team in front of them making them both statistically world beaters?

Anyways, I love Georgiev and hopes he's here for a very long time.

 

[CobraAcesS]

But haven't I been proven more of a realist than a homer? I basically claim we have world leading players, coaches, fans, management, owners in sports. Their results back that up. We can beat anyone. We win Stanley Cups. We are a destination of choice for players. Our players win best players in their positions. We have the best forward and D-man (and possibly right winger) on the planet - in ONE team. We develop like no others. We draft like no others. We trade like no others.

Is what it is, mate.

Well we won a Cup

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

But haven't I been proven more of a realist than a homer?

Hahahahahahaha

 

[Sea Eagles]

See, that is a flawed argument. As hench mentions below, wins/losses are a team stat. This would be akin to being in a workplace where you have a team project and you've got one team member frequently being a massive burden (deleting parts of the excel sheet, having terrible communication skills with the clients you're working with, showing up late regularly). The project itself may be a massive success, but that is in spite of the one lagging team member and not due to them.

I've said this before. With the way the Avs are constructed, and will be constructed in the future I think they need to heavily invest in trying to find a true upper echelon goalie. They need someone who can steal them some wins, and to provide some confidence on the back end. Right now they have a goalie that costs them wins, and that makes the team have to cover for his mess. The man averaged 3GAA which means that the Avs had to regularly score 4+ goals to have a shot at winning. That's not great. 37 games this year he let in 3+ goals, of those games 25 of them he let in 4+. 58.7% of his games he's forcing the team to score 4+ goals, 37% of those games they need to score 5+. That's incredibly demoralizing for the team in front of you, that puts a lot of pressure on the top guys to regularly beat their opponents. By the way, the Avs were able to outscore their goalie giving up 3+ goals 14 times this year to get the W.

Long rant short, Georgie ain't helping the team to win. At his best, I would say he's at least the reason they aren't losing, at his worst he is 100% the reason the team lost. The Avs could get away with this level of goaltending when they had a bunch of cheaper contracts and guys outplaying their contracts, they can't afford that anymore. They need a goalie that can legitimately steal games, and where his average is that he contributes to wins.

I think I need to read my notifications bottom up, rather than the other way so I'm in order.

I completely agree with you winning and losing is a team stat. But you can't then cherry pick and say personal statistics "are entirely" or "solely" on any player alone. I'd say "most" of the players are as good as the team allow them to be. Georgiev was sub 3 GAA in his previous 3 years. Jeez, he had a GAA of 2.53 the season before this one.

Look at Mack's award ceremony speech. In fact, most players say it. "It's not just me that's won this award, I've only achieved what I have due to the players around me".

I really felt Georgiev was our boards whipping boy last season. It's frustrating. Anyways, he has some different coaching strategies this coming season, so let's see how he goes.

 

[ABasin]

But haven't I been proven more of a realist than a homer? I basically claim we have world leading players, coaches, fans, management, owners in sports. Their results back that up. We can beat anyone. We win Stanley Cups. We are a destination of choice for players. Our players win best players in their positions. We have the best forward and D-man (and possibly right winger) on the planet - in ONE team. We develop like no others. We draft like no others. We trade like no others.

Wha….?