OT: New Owner! New Name? New Season? New Everything!!! — Oh, and New Thread. All things Washington NFL FootBall (beat it, Dan-Bag!!)

[kicksavedave]

Trent Williams and Chris Samuals were good picks.

A case could be made that Sean Taylor(5) and Brandon Scherff(5) were solid picks also. Pro Bowlers.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Trent Williams and Chris Samuals were good picks.

We’ve been spoiled at the tackle position until recently. Chris Samuels, Trent Williams, Jon Jansen, Morgan Moses, Jammal Brown. Some great bookends for the better part of two decades. Ty Nsekhe was a great backup swing tackle as well.

It’s really only been in the Ron years that the OL turned into a liability. For as bad as Washington has been for 25 years they’ve more or less always had a good OL. Ron knew better than everyone and ran off three guys who are starting for playoff teams (Williams - SF, Moses - Baltimore, Scherff - Jax). Hell, even Geron Christian is starting for the Browns these days. Coaching matters and Ron and his staff have sucked eggs.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The ability to win inside the pocket, to find the simple answers but also know when to push the ball when opportunities arise, separates the difference-making quarterbacks and the middle tier.

2024 NFL mock draft: Why Drake Maye is the man for Chicago, while the top 10 is a run on offense

Nate Tice's second mock draft goes into detail on why Drake Maye is QB1, why the Patriots get their QB (just not Caleb Williams), and why we don't see our first defensive player off the board until well into the first round.

sports.yahoo.com

This write up on Maye .. says all the right things you want to hear.

Howell is like a C+ at everything, which I was fine with .. until hes shown he cant read Ds pre snap, doesnt make decisive decisions,

I want a QB that can:
- read a D pre snap
- be decisive on getting the ball out quickly if pressure
- feel for game when to take those deep shots
- ability to create off schedule if needed

Maye is like a A- at everything .. per this glowing scouting report.

Maye is like a 5 star Howell

Maye or Williams .. Im happy.

The thing I respected most about Brady was they way he could read the field pre-snap and also as a play started, and recognize fast "This is a checkdown." And take it while that guy is still open. 4-5 yards at a time until he sees what he wants and takes a chunk. Yeah he gets mocked by it (including by me, incorrectly, once upon a time), but if it's such an easy and scornable thing then everyone would do it successfully.

Maye does that. And it's a true read of the situation and not just the college "This will be my guy this time" thing. You can see him take everything in, and do it again after the snap, and he determines early if things are going the way of "big play" or if he should quickly take the yards available. He doesn't have to stand/jog around for 5-6 seconds with nobody getting open before deciding it's time to tuck it or go for the short option. He figures it out fast.

You have QBs who get praised for playing in "a pro style offense" which never actually seems to matter once they actually get into a real pro offense. Maye routinely plays like you'd expect an actual pro to. He seems like a guy who is already devoted to studying his opponents pretty deeply.

I like him a lot.

Edit: Brissett coming in really hammered home to me how deficient Howell was at reading Ds. Brissett immediately recognized where man vs zone was. He has a ton of experience so that helps. Sam can still absolutely learn all that. But with a new regime coming in an even higher upside QBs for the taking, do we want to invest in that project further? Will the new GM and coach want to? Might as well start fully anew. And I recognize five years from now we could easily be regretting moving on.

 

[Beef Invictus]

A case could be made that Sean Taylor(5) and Brandon Scherff(5) were solid picks also. Pro Bowlers.

lol I do agree that we can make a case that Sean Taylor was a solid pick. I love some good understatement. That's a British level of understatement.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

You should have taken the bet, you might have won some internet points.

All in good fun brother…

 

[John Price]

 

[Neil Racki]

The thing I respected most about Brady was they way he could read the field pre-snap and also as a play started, and recognize fast "This is a checkdown." And take it while that guy is still open. 4-5 yards at a time until he sees what he wants and takes a chunk. Yeah he gets mocked by it (including by me, incorrectly, once upon a time), but if it's such an easy and scornable thing then everyone would do it successfully.

Maye does that. And it's a true read of the situation and not just the college "This will be my guy this time" thing. You can see him take everything in, and do it again after the snap, and he determines early if things are going the way of "big play" or if he should quickly take the yards available. He doesn't have to stand/jog around for 5-6 seconds with nobody getting open before deciding it's time to tuck it or go for the short option. He figures it out fast.

You have QBs who get praised for playing in "a pro style offense" which never actually seems to matter once they actually get into a real pro offense. Maye routinely plays like you'd expect an actual pro to. He seems like a guy who is already devoted to studying his opponents pretty deeply.

I like him a lot.

Edit: Brissett coming in really hammered home to me how deficient Howell was at reading Ds. Brissett immediately recognized where man vs zone was. He has a ton of experience so that helps. Sam can still absolutely learn all that. But with a new regime coming in an even higher upside QBs for the taking, do we want to invest in that project further? Will the new GM and coach want to? Might as well start fully anew. And I recognize five years from now we could easily be regretting moving on.

Agreed on all. I need a process oriented QB (Kirk cousins) but with some off schedule ability

Howell hit Terry on that long completion on a 3rd and 2 I think. Showed Howell read single coverage no high safety … knew terry was 1 on 1 ..knew terry with a go route was the place to go with ball and Howell got ball out on time

Of course that is a gimme read anyone on their couch could see

Howell just can’t get the ball out on time. Throws the timing of the routes off etc … sucks bc he does a lot of things well enough

 

[kicksavedave]

lol I do agree that we can make a case that Sean Taylor was a solid pick. I love some good understatement. That's a British level of understatement.

It was exactly 20 years ago that the debate of Sean Taylor VS Kellen Winslow Jr was raging on the interwebs. I remember fist pumping the air when they took Taylor. He was a generational special talent. Still a tragedy thinking about it all.

 

[ynotcaps]

i watched a lot of Drake Maye this year and i do believe he will be a serviceable NFL QB but nothing really blows me away with his game for him to be in the discussion for a top 5 pick. He'll probably prove me wrong but that's my opinion. MHJ is probably the best pure talent in the draft...if the bears decide to go with williams, why not something like this:

Harrison round 1
Penix round 2
Left Tackle round 2
TE round 3
RT round 3

Agreed with Beef, very unlikely Penix makes it to us in the 2nd, but also can't get on board with proscribing positions to picks (with the obvious exception of taking LT with every pick). You don't take a 3rd RD LT in the 2nd if a 1st Rd RT is available -- or CB, or WR, or ED, or anything else.
I want us to get a stud GM in here, let him build his staff, and trust that they're smart enough to do the exact opposite of what our current band of trash-pandas would do.

Also, because it needs to be said:
Everything outside of maybe the top 3-5 picks is completely subject to change at this stage of the game -- so many guys have yet to declare, all-star games still to come, combine, then visits w/ interviews.
All I know for sure is that what I am 100% certain we should do today, I reserve the right to complete denial 3.5 months from now.

 

[Ridley Simon]

The thing I respected most about Brady was they way he could read the field pre-snap and also as a play started, and recognize fast "This is a checkdown." And take it while that guy is still open. 4-5 yards at a time until he sees what he wants and takes a chunk. Yeah he gets mocked by it (including by me, incorrectly, once upon a time), but if it's such an easy and scornable thing then everyone would do it successfully.

Maye does that. And it's a true read of the situation and not just the college "This will be my guy this time" thing. You can see him take everything in, and do it again after the snap, and he determines early if things are going the way of "big play" or if he should quickly take the yards available. He doesn't have to stand/jog around for 5-6 seconds with nobody getting open before deciding it's time to tuck it or go for the short option. He figures it out fast.

You have QBs who get praised for playing in "a pro style offense" which never actually seems to matter once they actually get into a real pro offense. Maye routinely plays like you'd expect an actual pro to. He seems like a guy who is already devoted to studying his opponents pretty deeply.

I like him a lot.

Edit: Brissett coming in really hammered home to me how deficient Howell was at reading Ds. Brissett immediately recognized where man vs zone was. He has a ton of experience so that helps. Sam can still absolutely learn all that. But with a new regime coming in an even higher upside QBs for the taking, do we want to invest in that project further? Will the new GM and coach want to? Might as well start fully anew. And I recognize five years from now we could easily be regretting moving on.

This is a strong take. I think the Skins would be fools to pass on both Williams and Maye. Assuming they end at #2.

I fully grasp and appreciate the “trading down to acquire assets!!” piece to it all, and would vehemently *agree* under almost all circumstances — save this one. Team needs the QB, and at #2, said QB SHOULD be available to them.

Take it and run

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is a strong take. I think the Skins would be fools to pass on both Williams and Maye. Assuming they end at #2.

I fully grasp and appreciate the “trading down to acquire assets!!” piece to it all, and would vehemently *agree* under almost all circumstances — save this one. Team needs the QB, and at #2, said QB SHOULD be available to them.

Take it and run

I vigorously oppose Williams for reasons I've stated a few times; I've turned on him this season, and thought he's trended the wrong way this year. If we are in the #2 spot though, the play probably should be trading Howell for more picks and replacing him. There are good options.

And I've been an elaborate Howell fan since before we drafted him

 

[Ridley Simon]

I vigorously oppose Williams for reasons I've stated a few times; I've turned on him this season, and thought he's trended the wrong way this year. If we are in the #2 spot though, the play probably should be trading Howell for more picks and replacing him.

And I've been an elaborate Howell fan since before we drafted him

Being a PST guy, I’ve seen a lot of Williams. I actually like him. A lot. His evasiveness and running ability are amazing. He’s got a terrific arm, and has the “Mahomes” type ability to throw the ball any which way, to get it to the receiver.

His O-Line sucked. His defense sucked. Riley’s entire team was vastly overrated— but I think Williams is the Real Deal.

I do not expect Chicago to pass him up. He is NOT Bryce Young 2.0.

And then the Skins take Maye.

 

[John Price]

 

[Beef Invictus]

Being a PST guy, I’ve seen a lot of Williams. I actually like him. A lot. His evasiveness and running ability are amazing. He’s got a terrific arm, and has the “Mahomes” type ability to throw the ball any which way, to get it to the receiver.

His O-Line sucked. His defense sucked. Riley’s entire team was vastly overrated— but I think Williams is the Real Deal.

I do not expect Chicago to pass him up. He is NOT Bryce Young 2.0.

And then the Skins take Maye.

I came away from last season amazed at Williams, but this year I think he looked too confident in his ability to play hero-ball and do it all himself and it led to some very baffling plays. Feeling like he HAS to outscore his defense in every game can't have helped with that mindset.

He's way better than Geno Smith was, but I get that vibe of Geno early in his NFL career where he tried to do more than he could. That's the vibe I get. I am, however, a noted idiot, so take this into account.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I think the entire USC program took some massive steps back. I constantly saw their O-Line getting blitzed by many teams. It was horribad.

As we’ve notably seen w Howell — hard to judge any player’s capabilities with a shit OL.

That said, I do agree with the “hero ball” analogy. That was certainly happening. The question is….why? I think it’s because he didn’t have the cast around him, that he needed.

But like you, I’m a card carrying moron, so who knows???

 

[ynotcaps]

I came away from last season amazed at Williams, but this year I think he looked too confident in his ability to play hero-ball and do it all himself and it led to some very baffling plays. Feeling like he HAS to outscore his defense in every game can't have helped with that mindset.

He's way better than Geno Smith was, but I get that vibe of Geno early in his NFL career where he tried to do more than he could. That's the vibe I get. I am, however, a noted idiot, so take this into account.

Yeah, I'm not really holding this year against him. In fact, I think this year might have helped his overall development in that it has shown coaches -- and him -- what he needs to focus on in terms of growing.
With our current regime, I'd say no way -- we'd never get the best out of him. With a new regime, (presumably, hopefully) we wouldn't have to worry about getting him the specific coaching he needs -- we'd just need to worry on every snap that this may be the snap where he gets himself broken.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, I'm not really holding this year against him. In fact, I think this year might have helped his overall development in that it has shown coaches -- and him -- what he needs to focus on in terms of growing.
With our current regime, I'd say no way -- we'd never get the best out of him. With a new regime, (presumably, hopefully) we wouldn't have to worry about getting him the specific coaching he needs -- we'd just need to worry on every snap that this may be the snap where he gets himself broken.

Yeah, if I'm honest with myself then the major reason I'm drawn to Maye is that I'm so used to this team being a disaster when it comes to the QB position that I like the guy who seems closest to ready for the NFL style game. Because I can't trust this team. It's a big reason I liked Howell; I thought he had a high chance of surviving in the conditions this place throws at QBs.

And the one time we do develop someone for the first time in most of our lifetimes, we refuse to sign him for a cheap deal, pay him extra instead, then let him go. R.O.F.L.

It is a new age, but old habits and such. This team has carefully and diligently trained me to expect a certain thing.

 

[g00n]

Referee Brad Allen, who muffed pivotal call in Lions-Cowboys, will call national TV game in Week 18

The referees everyone hated in Week 17 are back on national TV for Week 18.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Bananas]

Penix Jr has my attention.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Penix Jr has my attention.

24 years old by the time the draft rolls around. He should be dominating at the NCAA level. Don't draft older QBs...it never works out.

 

[ynotcaps]

24 years old by the time the draft rolls around. He should be dominating at the NCAA level. Don't draft older QBs...it never works out.

I think he's a really good QB, and the 24-year old thing itself doesn't necessarily bother me. It's the 24-year old with 2 season-ending ACLs and 2 season-ending shoulders that bothers me.
I think with the portal and NIL, we're gonna start seeing more QBs entering the league at higher ages. Won't necessarily be a bad thing if it brings them in more physically and experientially ready. Kind of the anti-NBA.

 

[Holtbyisms]

I think he's a really good QB, and the 24-year old thing itself doesn't necessarily bother me. It's the 24-year old with 2 season-ending ACLs and 2 season-ending shoulders that bothers me.
I think with the portal and NIL, we're gonna start seeing more QBs entering the league at higher ages. Won't necessarily be a bad thing if it brings them in more physically and experientially ready. Kind of the anti-NBA.

I think he's a good college quarterback who's had 6 years to get there. NIL won't stop young top tier QBs from going to the NFL. Drake Maye is coming out at 21...his family has fame and money and he's making 1.5 in NIL. Staying in school to get injured and lose steam isn't a smart financial decision when you are a likely top 5 pick. No handler will allow their client to do that.

 

[ynotcaps]

From WaPo story on Black Monday, the news on WAS is the last line, which is heartening:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2024/01/02/nfl-coaches-hot-seat/

Washington Commanders

Ron Rivera has known this was over for quite some time, and so have many within the organization. The clock has been ticking on his tenure for months. Two GMs told me they expect new owner Josh Harris to hire a GM before he hires a coach. There are rumblings about him looking down the road to the Ravens, whose head of scouting, Joe Hortiz, and defensive coordinator, Mike Macdonald, are very much “it” guys heading into the offseason. “I think [Harris] goes young, someone analytically inclined,” said one longtime NFL executive, who is also not permitted to publicly speculate about front-office hires. “It’s not going to be a retread.”

Wouldn't mind that BAL pair, plus maybe taking a run at Joe Brady for OC.

 

[kicksavedave]

"It's not going to be a reread" may be the nicest words I've heard this year.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Meh. “Retreads” come in all shapes and sizes. Would I want a Matt Rhule or a Chip Kelly? NO

Would I want Jim Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin? YES.

So we shall see.