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OT: NBA Discussion Thread: Part V

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I don't even get why the Warriors would want him. They've got one starting guard too many once Thompson is back.
 
mrmovies779 said:
Im not thrilled with the Portis signing
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I'm pretty sure the UFA market next summer is terrible, so throwing extra money at 23-24 year old players on a 2 year deal and hoping they strike gold with one of them is not a bad plan. They have to spend the money just to get to the 90% salary cap floor. Then re-evaluate in 2 summers. Maybe they are hoping they are competitive through the draft by then and can attract a guy like Giannis.
 
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All these bigs signed to cut mins from their mvp last season Mitchell Robinson. Bold strategy
 
bbny said:
I'm pretty sure the UFA market next summer is terrible, so throwing extra money at 23-24 year old players on a 2 year deal and hoping they strike gold with one of them is not a bad plan. They have to spend the money just to get to the 90% salary cap floor. Then re-evaluate in 2 summers. Maybe they are hoping they are competitive through the draft by then and can attract a guy like Giannis.
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That's kind of what I'm thinking as well. From what I've been reading and hearing, your right in that 2020 is going to blow chunks as far as UFA's and so we kind of had to go this route.

Not sure who other than Giannis will be UFA's in 2021 but supposedly it will be alot better than 2020. So we play the kids just like their MSG brothers the Rangers will be doing, start to develop some chemistry and hopefully put out a team that is exciting and competes every night and is a pain in the ass to play against and than 2021 make your big moves.

As I said in my last post, the Knicks do that, I'll buy in to what they are doing.
 
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Maximus said:
What I find ironic is that the Knicks are getting killed by some peeps in here and most in the media other than some savvy peeps like Mannix for doing the same exact thing the Rangers did which was obviously tearing it down and building with kids and the draft.

Rangers on the other hand are getting all the praise in the world and now Gorton is a genius and can do no wrong. There is no question had KD not tore his Achillies which by the way is THE worst possible injury a basketball player
can get, he'd likely be a Knick...I'm convinced about that. But he did tear his Achillies and so strategy had to change...I'm good with that.

I'm glad the Knicks did do their due diligence for a change of pace and decided that yeah we still want KD but not for max money. They wanted a bit of insurance that seeing he's only going to play for them 3 years instead of 4 and likely not be at 100% and more like 80-85% effectiveness which admittedly is still better than most in the league, they didn't want to go all in. I don't see anything wrong with that. If the prima donna KD wanted to come to the Garden so bad, he would have come.

Bottom line and I'm sorry but I'm not going to kill Mills and Perry on this one whatsoever. Knicks did the right thing. Sign a Randall who should be a nice addition and fits in with the rebuild, maybe bring in another young player for same type of money and term, you likely are a lottery team again and you live for another day.

Last thing I'll say and maybe some feel like this too but if my team I live and die for whether it's the Knicks,Rangers,Jets or Mets plays hard and is exciting and competitive but loses more than it wins, I'm OK with that so long as we see that the losing is just a temporary thing seeing the future is bright. That's what I want to see with the Knicks and I think we have the makings of that for the first time in I don't know...since the Patrick Ewing days. Things change quickly in basketball. We'll still have plenty of money after this year and let's see who becomes available next season and wants to play at the Mecca with an exciting young team....we'll see.
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The media hates the Knicks. So no matter what they do they find reasons to kill them. Talk show host like to use the Knicks for ratings trying to make them a controversial topic. Even when not much is there.
A good example of this is Michael Kay, who for years along with the rest of the media, shouted that the Knicks need to build through the draft. Okay so they finally do. He then gets on his radio show in Jan/Feb and rips them about them tanking.

It will be interesting to hear him today. Cause he along with Joe Beningo, Evan Roberts and many others, said the Knicks should stay away from Irving and post injury Durant.
 
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Maximus said:
What I find ironic is that the Knicks are getting killed by some peeps in here and most in the media other than some savvy peeps like Mannix for doing the same exact thing the Rangers did which was obviously tearing it down and building with kids and the draft.

Rangers on the other hand are getting all the praise in the world and now Gorton is a genius and can do no wrong. There is no question had KD not tore his Achillies which by the way is THE worst possible injury a basketball player
can get, he'd likely be a Knick...I'm convinced about that. But he did tear his Achillies and so strategy had to change...I'm good with that.

I'm glad the Knicks did do their due diligence for a change of pace and decided that yeah we still want KD but not for max money. They wanted a bit of insurance that seeing he's only going to play for them 3 years instead of 4 and likely not be at 100% and more like 80-85% effectiveness which admittedly is still better than most in the league, they didn't want to go all in. I don't see anything wrong with that. If the prima donna KD wanted to come to the Garden so bad, he would have come.

Bottom line and I'm sorry but I'm not going to kill Mills and Perry on this one whatsoever. Knicks did the right thing. Sign a Randall who should be a nice addition and fits in with the rebuild, maybe bring in another young player for same type of money and term, you likely are a lottery team again and you live for another day.

Last thing I'll say and maybe some feel like this too but if my team I live and die for whether it's the Knicks,Rangers,Jets or Mets plays hard and is exciting and competitive but loses more than it wins, I'm OK with that so long as we see that the losing is just a temporary thing seeing the future is bright. That's what I want to see with the Knicks and I think we have the makings of that for the first time in I don't know...since the Patrick Ewing days. Things change quickly in basketball. We'll still have plenty of money after this year and let's see who becomes available next season and wants to play at the Mecca with an exciting young team....we'll see.
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The problem with this is the NBA and NHL operate in two completely different universes. It is just not a good comparison whatsoever. The NHL has a hard cap, which has placed the emphasis on developing young stars and getting all you can out of them before they need to be paid. Either that, or overpaying for their premium years, while older FA's come on cheaper contracts.

In the NHL situation, teams break apart their team for draft picks and prospects that they hope will turn into top players, thus giving them this cap advantage.

The exact opposite happens in the NBA. This league revolves mainly around big FAs teaming up with either other FAs or established stars, to compete for championships. Also, trades play a huge role and you can clearly see this with how 1st round picks are traded like 5-6 years out. You can literally build a winner through FA and trades. In fact, that is the easiest and most direct way.

The Knicks have now broken down their teams twice in order to have a shot at signing big FAs. Their intention, both times, was 100% to have enough cap space to hand out max contracts to star FAs. First it was Lebron, Wade, etc. - which failed miserably - and now it was Kyrie, Durant, etc. - which also failed miserably. They weren't focused on building through the draft or via savvy FA signings (which - on a side note - I'm not even sure is possible). They literally cut down their roster to gamble in the hopes that FAs would choose to come and be a savior to the desperate NY franchise.

One rebuild was purposeful and makes sense in the context of the league, the other was an utter failure and is only taking part because FAs clearly hate Dolan and don't see the Knicks as an attractive destination.
 
BroadwayBlues said:
The media hates the Knicks. So no matter what they do they find reasons to kill them. Talk show host like to use the Knicks for ratings trying to make them a controversial topic. Even when not much is there.
A good example of this is Michael Kay, who for years along with the rest of the media, shouted that the Knicks need to build through the draft. Okay so they finally do. He then gets on his radio show in Jan/Feb and rips them about them tanking.

It will be interesting to hear him today. Cause he along with Joe Beningo, Evan Roberts and many others, said the Knicks should stay away from Irving and post injury Durant.
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Quoting myself lol.

Evan has backtracked a bit and is happy. Gloating because "knick fans are arrogant". Loves it because he's been told how the Nets are not relevant.

Thinks the Nets could win a championship.

Joe still thrilled neither came to the Knicks.
 
Faceless said:
The problem with this is the NBA and NHL operate in two completely different universes. It is just not a good comparison whatsoever. The NHL has a hard cap, which has placed the emphasis on developing young stars and getting all you can out of them before they need to be paid. Either that, or overpaying for their premium years, while older FA's come on cheaper contracts.

In the NHL situation, teams break apart their team for draft picks and prospects that they hope will turn into top players, thus giving them this cap advantage.

The exact opposite happens in the NBA. This league revolves mainly around big FAs teaming up with either other FAs or established stars, to compete for championships. Also, trades play a huge role and you can clearly see this with how 1st round picks are traded like 5-6 years out. You can literally build a winner through FA and trades. In fact, that is the easiest and most direct way.

The Knicks have now broken down their teams twice in order to have a shot at signing big FAs. Their intention, both times, was 100% to have enough cap space to hand out max contracts to star FAs. First it was Lebron, Wade, etc. - which failed miserably - and now it was Kyrie, Durant, etc. - which also failed miserably. They weren't focused on building through the draft or via savvy FA signings (which - on a side note - I'm not even sure is possible). They literally cut down their roster to gamble in the hopes that FAs would choose to come and be a savior to the desperate NY franchise.

One rebuild was purposeful and makes sense in the context of the league, the other was an utter failure and is only taking part because FAs clearly hate Dolan and don't see the Knicks as an attractive destination.
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Thanks for the dissertation and history lesson on how NBA franchises and NHL franchises are built. Had you not pointed this out, I never would have known this...so thanks. I mean can we get any more condescending?

And yes I'm being sarcastic as per your typical condescending tone . Your a knowledgeable guy and at times make some good points but you don't always have to try and come across like the "smartest guy in the room"...it's a real buzz kill. There's your tip for the day....your welcome.

Bottom line is the Knicks got unlucky. If Durant doesn't tear his Achilies and I have no empirical data to back this up but I have no doubt in my mind Mills and Perry were going to go all out to bring KD to the Garden. And I think they would have made a bigger pitch for a Kyrie or someone else. And I think it just might have worked.

But bad luck, bad karma, stinking curses...whatever you want to call it f***ed the Knicks here. So you can criticize them as much as you want and can get on Dolan's case and some of it is justified tho not in this case, but most knowledgeable Knick fans are not pissed that we didn't get KD....we are more pissed that KD got hurt and it ruined the plans we had formulated for over a year. So I dont know how you can get on Knicks case for having bad f***ing luck.

It might just end up the Knicks inadvertently dodged a bullet and it's a possible blessing in disguise that this whole KD/Kyrie thing didn't pan out.

Hopefully their young players develop and the team they are building comes together and makes it fun to the come the Garden again. From the pieces I see, there is some hope despite what you and others say.
 
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BroadwayBlues said:
Quoting myself lol.

Evan has backtracked a bit and is happy. Gloating because "knick fans are arrogant". Loves it because he's been told how the Nets are not relevant.

Thinks the Nets could win a championship.

Joe still thrilled neither came to the Knicks.
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I'm listening as well and heard that.

Well if Kawhi leaves Toronto, there is a pretty big lane for the Nets tho withought KD, the Bucks seem to me to still be better than the Nets. The Kemba Walker addition for Boston should not be understated. IMO, he blows away Kyrie...that team got better.

And Joe is right...he feels like I do. I wanted KD badly when before he tore his Achilles. Once he got hurt, I had misgivings but it we brought in a Kawhi type with him I'd have been OK with it. Still very risky as KD is very likely not going to be the same.

Nets aren't a lock but they got better for sure.
 
The more I think about it the more I think the Knicks did the right thing. They didn't panic like when they signed Stoudemire. Sign some vets to help the kids and some young players to help now and in the future. Draft smart, and build a team that stars want to come play for.

Kyrie is always injured, and Durant is going to miss a whole year and may never be the same. In 2 years we could be talking about how these signings completely ruined what the Nets were building.
 
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I'm not a big basketball fan, but the Warriors announcing that they're going to retire Durant's number is weird, right?
 
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LionsHeart said:
The more I think about it the more I think the Knicks did the right thing. They didn't panic like when they signed Stoudemire. Sign some vets to help the kids and some young players to help now and in the future. Draft smart, and build a team that stars want to come play for.

Kyrie is always injured, and Durant is going to miss a whole year and may never be the same. In 2 years we could be talking about how these signings completely ruined what the Nets were building.
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Knicks did the right thing when it came to not overreacting, but the Nets were prime to take this risk. Everything they built has been gravy. They were supposed to be nothing for a decade. They went from the outhouse to the penthouse in 3 years.

If this doesn't work for them, I don't think they'll lose much sleep over it. Came from literally nothing to having a chance at an NBA title.
 
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