Confirmed with Link: Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson

[Mayor Bee]

I don't know about but I don't like my big contract FA signing play uninsured. That's a pretty big risk.

Have anything of value to add or are you just going to be a smartass?

The whole thing reminds of Uwe Krupp. Chronically injured, needs to be repaired, signs a huge UFA deal, gets reinjured, misses a ton of time, and it turns out that the team decided not to insure the contract in the first place.

The only thing missing is dogsledding and private investigators following everyone around.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

Leafs fan in peace


I was a huge fan of Clarkson when he was with NJ and was happy when we signed him.

I think the pressure was just far too much for him to handle (hometown TO guy+plus dreadful Toronto media)

I could see him being a perennial 20 goal guy in the right circumstances. He's probably breathing a huge sigh of relief to be traded to you guys.

 

[Bobcat110]

No one's supporting the trade by saying Jarmo is competent in general, or that Clarkson's a good player. We're saying the money couldn't have been recouped in any way except by trading the contract., and that the return would inevitably be another bad contract from a cap team. And you couldn't have spent the money elsewhere -- it was tied up in Horton's contract.

Umm...yeah..no. You can't expect people to judge this trade on just the two players who got swapped today and ignore the other information that came out today that forced the trade.

Most contracts aren't insured. Last update we had on the NHL's league-wide insurance program typically only the 5 biggest contracts on a team are insured. And even then the insurer can pro-actively deny future claims for a specific repeat injury. For example I doubt Pitt has Crosby's contract insured against a career-ending future concussion.

5 biggest contracts x 30 teams...so around 150 players are insured? According to Portzline, Horton's shoulder was not insurable, but the rest of his body was.

If you guys have a good forechecking line, he'll work best there.

Had one last year...not so much this year. But Boll beats up the glass pretty well.

From the tweets it seems that Horton already being injured at the beginning of his contract--not playing until January--impacted his insurance status that likely wasn't covered for 2013-2014. By the time the 2014-2015 season came around he had his degenerative back issue diagnosed and was likely rejected by the insurance plan for coverage.

Some conjecture on my part, and I'm always skeptical of tweets stating things like Columbus declined to pay for a rider in 2013-2014 to have him covered. But that would explain how this came to happen. Haven't heavily looked if Horton had any prior back issues that might have caused the insurer to exclude them but I don't think he did.

CBJ could have insured Horton for everything but his shoulder. They made the choice not to:
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com...trade-horton-to-maple-leafs-for-clarkson.html

 

[Cowumbus]

Still the worse contract in the nhl

Would have thought TO would be sending us a pick too.. He's that bad

 

[major major]

I mentioned it on the trade deadline thread, and I'm sure I'll catch flak for it - but I get the deal.

The smaller market Jackets don't have to pay a guy to sit on the shelf - something that isn't as big a deal for the larger market Leafs. In New Jersey, where he the go-to guy, Clarkson was a solid forward. In Columbus, he'll slot in on one of the top-two lines almost by default. On a line with Johansen and Foligno, if nothing else he will be a capable scorer who can clear room for them.

I'll reserve judgment until I see him play, but I wonder if Clarkson's noted passing/vision issues will be a drag on players as skilled as Johansen and Foligno? Or even Dubi or even third liners. The numbers from Toronto suggest Clarkson dragged all of his linemates down.

 

[KJ Dangler]

I would like to pile on in this thread and discuss how terrible our drafting has been under jarmo all people want to do is dwell on the negative . The hartnall trade was awful as well , I mean umberger has 14 points this season . Seems like Clarkson is having a better season than umberger , maybe he comes here and regains his confidence . Better than paying someone who has no incentive to retire , to collect a check and never play .

 

[Sore Loser]

I'll reserve judgment until I see him play, but I wonder if Clarkson's noted passing/vision issues will be a drag on players as skilled as Johansen and Foligno? Or even Dubi or even third liners. The numbers from Toronto suggest Clarkson dragged all of his linemates down.

If he goes to the net and plays physical, I think he's definitely an upgrade on what they have had for most of the year in guys like Morin and Skille.

Wennberg has looked the part for sure, but Clarkson gives them time to let Wennberg develop.

 

[major major]

Too much to read so sorry if it was a repost.

Bob Mackenzie was saying you have to be a cap team to be able to use the LTIR and create more cap space. Since Columbus isn't up to the cap, they're unable to use the LTIR. I wonder, knowing that they were paying for Horton's contract, owner wouldn't allow to spend up to the cap?

The LTIR rule is a bit silly - we aren't allowed to use the LTIR cap exemption if we're not at the cap, and if we're not at the cap we don't need the LTIR cap exemption. So it doesn't matter at all, I'm not sure why Bob is talking about it.

There could be a issue, maybe, if you start the year below the cap (so you can't use the LTIR cap-exemption, which goes into effect at the start of each year depending on your salary at the start of each year) and then your salary rises during the year..

 

[Maple Leaf]

Leafs fan in peace


I was a huge fan of Clarkson when he was with NJ and was happy when we signed him.

I think the pressure was just far too much for him to handle (hometown TO guy+plus dreadful Toronto media)

I could see him being a perennial 20 goal guy in the right circumstances. He's probably breathing a huge sigh of relief to be traded to you guys.

Clarkson played quite well near the start of the season when he was wearing the cage.

Hopefully he works out for you guys.

 

[Bobcat110]

It's amazing how many insurance experts and actuaries there are on HF. Who knew?

Yep. Nationwide gives out free trips when you get your CLU and/or ChFC

or at least they used to.

 

[EspenK]

The LTIR rule is a bit silly - we aren't allowed to use the LTIR cap exemption if we're not at the cap, and if we're not at the cap we don't need the LTIR cap exemption. So it doesn't matter at all, I'm not sure why Bob is talking about it.

There could be a issue, maybe, if you start the year below the cap (so you can't use the LTIR cap-exemption, which goes into effect at the start of each year depending on your salary at the start of each year) and then your salary rises during the year..

Maybe he is talking about it as to why Horton was valuable to the extent that for the same money they were on the hook for for Clarkson they now don't have to count those $ against the cap.

Not sure what you are asking/saying in the 2nd paragraph?

 

[CapnCornelius]

I would like to pile on in this thread and discuss how terrible our drafting has been under jarmo all people want to do is dwell on the negative . The hartnall trade was awful as well , I mean umberger has 14 points this season . Seems like Clarkson is having a better season than umberger , maybe he comes here and regains his confidence . Better than paying someone who has no incentive to retire , to collect a check and never play .

What sort of revisionist history is this? People celebrated the Umberger trade, rightly and they are rightly questioning the trade and the circumstances that led to it.

It's not good enough to do well at one part of the job of being an NHL GM. The job requires doing well at all aspects--contracts, chemistry, drafting, etc. The margin for error on a small market team is particularly slim and requires substabtially more successes than failures. But the bottom line is results.

Jarmo and JD handicapped this team with their reckless decision not to insure Horton. They have now made a risky move hoping to fix the problem. If the team does well because of or in spite of this move? They will rightly be praised. If not? They will justly be berated.

 

[Mayor Bee]

David Alter @dalter · 43m 43 minutes ago

FInal tabulation of David Clarkson's Toronto tenure. #Leafs were 43-59-17 (.433) with Clarkson in the lineup, 19-8-1 (.696) without him.

 

[major major]

If he goes to the net and plays physical, I think he's definitely an upgrade on what they have had for most of the year in guys like Morin and Skille.

Wennberg has looked the part for sure, but Clarkson gives them time to let Wennberg develop.

Only five more years!

And I'm not so sure that Clarkson is an upgrade on Morin, at least when it comes to basic passing and puck control, in other words the things that you need to have to not drag down your linemates.

 

[DarkandStormy]

This comes down to management wanting to shell out $26 million for a player rather than Horton. Simple.

 

[major major]

I don't want my reservations regarding Clarkson to be lumped in with the kind of diatribe Cap'n is going off on.

It was a mistake not to have insurance on Horton, throw in some terrible luck and some hindsight bias and it looks terrible. It sucks, but I don't think it's gross incompetence.

And maybe we could have gotten a better deal considering the amount of caproom we're saving for the Leafs, but I'm not sure. You have to assume basic competence for Jarmo, and I trust he tried to get a better deal.

 

[Cowumbus]

Clarkson is about to be 31.

 

[TheFinalWord]

What sort of revisionist history is this? People celebrated the Umberger trade, rightly and they are rightly questioning the trade and the circumstances that led to it.

It's not good enough to do well at one part of the job of being an NHL GM. The job requires doing well at all aspects--contracts, chemistry, drafting, etc. The margin for error on a small market team is particularly slim and requires substabtially more successes than failures. But the bottom line is results.

Jarmo and JD handicapped this team with their reckless decision not to insure Horton. They have now made a risky move hoping to fix the problem. If the team does well because of or in spite of this move? They will rightly be praised. If not? They will justly be berated.

What would you suggest as an alternative? You can complain about the fact that they didn't get insurance, but that's done. With the facts as they are today and Columbus being a budget team, what other alternatives were there? You could try to package Horton with draft picks and hope a team like Toronto would be willing to pay the cash, but I doubt even a team like Toronto would pay $25 million for one first round pick. Clarkson may only get 12-15 goals a year, but it's 12-15 more than Horton was going to get.

 

[We Want Ten]

The FO just doubled down on the stupid.

 

[NotWendell]

For me, the insurance (or lack thereof) is ENTIRELY the issue. Today's trade makes sense. The reason is had to be made does not.

 

[NotWendell]

The FO just doubled down on the stupid.

It's like Carter and Gaborik all over again.

 

[Jyrki]

...what the ****

Spend money for deadweight or spend money for liability who also takes up cap space when we need it?



Clarkson's contract needed to be packaged with picks. It was a huge liability for the Leafs, and we took that off their hands for what should amount to nothing. Thomas was traded for a 2nd round pick when he wasn't playing FFS

 

[DarkandStormy]

It's like Carter and Gaborik all over again.

Different FO's. And not really.

 

[Jackpot Jaret]

Penguins fan here who likes the trade for Colombus. It makes it harder to play against them, hes a hard nosed player, to go with the likes of Hartnell, Dubinsky, etc

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

Maybe the Jackets are trying to put together the Broad Street Bullies

Even though they are on Nationwide and Front