Confirmed with Link: Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I think some of you Jackets fans are overreacting a little bit here, i know a lot of the Toronto fans would have you believe that Clarkson is the worst player in the world, but that really isn't the case whatsoever.

Is Clarkson a 5.3 million dollar player, absolutely not, any Devils fan could have told you the minute that contract was signed that he never stood a chance of living up to it; but he's not some worthless AHL plug either, and Toronto didn't help themselves with their utilization of him.

The season in which he scored 30 goals for us was admittedly fortuitous, he had some serious puck luck and that will likely be the best he ever manages in his career, but the dude has a knack for being in the right position at the right time and scoring off of tips in front of the net. Not to mention he's a great character guy who brings some snarl and tenacity, he's not afraid to stand up for his teammates or make a nuisance of himself.

His skating isn't very good (we used to count how many times he fell down per game), and he isn't much of a playmaker, he might generate 10-15 assists per season, but in a better situation than he had in Toronto the guy is probably a 17-23 goal scorer most years who can play a few PP minutes and provide a unique skill set to the third line.

Is he overpaid? Absolutely. Most Devils fans were happy with the idea of giving him a modest ~3.5 million a year, there or there abouts, i'd take him back for that price today even after what happened in Toronto. So you're probably paying about ~1.8m over the odds for what he brings, that's not exactly crippling by any means; and for a team that can't really afford to absorb the kind of money owed to Horton when he's likely never going to contribute on the ice again, i think you guys did a really good job of making the best out of a less than stellar situation here.

tl;dr: Clarkson has weaknesses to his game for sure (passing/skating), but a few strengths too (physicality/net presence/deflection goals), he's not some AHL/4th line scrub.

I always liked him as a player and a person, so i'm hoping he rebounds and contributes for you guys, i'm certain he will. Toronto treated him really badly, far worse than he deserved.

I don't know how Toronto could've utilized him better or given him a better situation. They tried playing him in the top 6 and he just dragged our second liners down. We handed him PP time despite the fact that there were more deserving players and he killed any production off of that to. I don't know what else the Leafs could've done to get him to produce. On the PP his instructions were pretty much just stand in front of the net and it still didn't help him.

The Clarkson in New Jersey wasn't the Clarkson that came to Toronto. I don't know what happened to him but he wasn't the same player at all.

As for Toronto treating him badly, as if. He never got booed despite his poor play and he was still handed minutes despite his poor play. Sure on the internet and sometimes in the media he'd take criticism, but it wasn't undeserved.

 

[EnglishDevil]

You are missing one important piece of this puzzle. It was appear that we're paying him 7 million in a year in the 16/17 and 17/18 seasons. Salary is more of a concern than cap space. Assuming those numbers are correct, that's a pretty big anchor on this team for 2 seasons. Your numbers don't really add up.

I'm aware that his contract is front loaded, i do believe your figures of an actual salary around 7 million for the next two years are correct, but my understanding is that Hortons salary for those two same years was 6 million, which only represents an increase of a million dollars in actual salary for the upcoming seasons.

By all means correct me if i'm wrong, but you guys have spent near to the cap in recent seasons haven't you? Just like my Devils, i'm sure your ownership wouldn't be excited at the prospect of paying 6 million dollars a year to a guy who doesn't play at all, smaller franchises like ours can't afford to eat those kind of costs the way someone like the Leafs, Habs or Rangers can, but i doubt either are so cash strapped that a meager million dollars in actual money is going to represent a significant handcuff in terms of team finances.

 

[thadd]

I was shocked to see this trade go down. Clarkson isn't as bad as the numbers suggest. If you guys play him in your top six I'm pretty sure he'll be productive enough.

 

[EnglishDevil]

Oh please... No fan base is going to be excited to add his contract. He needs to be over 25 goals to be worth the cash, we'll see if he gets there.

He'll never be worth that money, as i pointed out before. You have to accept he's overpaid, he was from the minute he signed that deal, he's not the kind of player you give 5.3 million dollars a year to. That said, he's not worthless and he does bring some things to the table, 20 goals isn't an unreasonable expectation provided he's put in a position to succeed, and he did that for a number of years with the Devils.

Try to look at it not just as adding Clarkson but also subtracting Horton. Yes Nathan is a superior player, but the guy isn't likely ever going to play again. Getting no contribution whatsoever for that money is a worse deal than getting a serviceable NHLer in Clarkson who can and should routinely chip in 20 goals and 30 points at minimum for you guys. He can be frustrating at times, but if he were a 3.5 million dollar player noone would care about his contract whatsoever. Consider the extra couple of million dead money, that's still better than 5-6 million of dead money with Horton, because i doubt you guys could afford to eat that salary on LTIR and overspend the cap another 5-6 million each season until Hortons contract expired.

I truly believe this situation was a win-win, Clarkson really isn't that bad.

 

[EnglishDevil]

I don't know how Toronto could've utilized him better or given him a better situation. They tried playing him in the top 6 and he just dragged our second liners down. We handed him PP time despite the fact that there were more deserving players and he killed any production off of that to. I don't know what else the Leafs could've done to get him to produce. On the PP his instructions were pretty much just stand in front of the net and it still didn't help him.

The Clarkson in New Jersey wasn't the Clarkson that came to Toronto. I don't know what happened to him but he wasn't the same player at all.

As for Toronto treating him badly, as if. He never got booed despite his poor play and he was still handed minutes despite his poor play. Sure on the internet and sometimes in the media he'd take criticism, but it wasn't undeserved.

Whilst all of your points are valid, i do think being away from the scrutiny of the Toronto market will revive Clarksons career somewhat. I agree you didn't get the same player that we had in New Jersey, but you can attribute that to a lot of things; media expectations and pressure of living up to his contract, a lack of chemistry with his teammates and being a poor fit for the system, i don't think Clarkson as a player has fundamentally changed that much if at all.

He can still be successful in the right situation, perhaps a fresh start for him in Columbus is just the ticket, i think the Jackets play the kind of game that could fit him quite well.

And as for being treated badly, i meant more by the fans on this forum, he seems to get a lot of unwarranted abuse in threads i've seen on here; but i can by no means speak for what the Toronto media or the fans at Leafs games treated him like, i rarely watch your team. I'm not trying to insinuate your fan base was to blame for his lack of success, but i do believe a lot of leaf fans had entirely unrealistic expectations of the player they were getting, and as such their disappointment of his play led to some rather unfair criticism, Clarkson is a good character guy.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

I don't know how Toronto could've utilized him better or given him a better situation.

By trading him to Columbus? There are NHL organizations and head coaches out there who'd trade scotthartnells of this world away in an attempt to improve their team...

Like a crazy man who likes his porridge... this is quite inspirational deal. Unlike other gambles that haven't unfortunately paid off Clarkson has the added benefit of not coming with an alarming injury record. His style of play is also just the right medicine for the top-9 next season. The grandmaster is favorable to us.

 

[blahblah]

He'll never be worth that money, as i pointed out before.

With all due respect you just totally wasted your time. It was meaningless based on the context of the conversation. His contract sucks, everyone on the planet knows it.

I really don't need other fans from other teams acting like voices of reason. When a poster from another fan base starts with "I don't get the hate on", it's just a form of trolling honestly. If they want to come in and give scouting report that's fine; but playing on emotions, in which everyone knows the contract blows and the fan base is justified being upset by it, is just going to get hate and is just best left unsaid.

 

[blahblah]

I'm aware that his contract is front loaded, i do believe your figures of an actual salary around 7 million for the next two years are correct, but my understanding is that Hortons salary for those two same years was 6 million, which only represents an increase of a million dollars in actual salary for the upcoming seasons

Price of tea in China? Totally irrelevant. Your numbers were wrong. We weren't paying 1.8 million too much based on your numbers. More like 3.5 million per season for two years, based on your estimation. I was pointing our your inaccuracy, nothing more nothing less. You weren't debating with me. You're wasting a lot of keystrokes tonight.

 

[RyanOhReally]

With all due respect you just totally wasted your time. It was meaningless based on the context of the conversation. His contract sucks, everyone on the planet knows it.

I really don't need other fans from other teams acting like voices of reason. When a poster from another fan base starts with "I don't get the hate on", it's just a form of trolling honestly. If they want to come in and give scouting report that's fine; but playing on emotions, in which everyone knows the contract blows and the fan base is justified being upset by it, is just going to get hate and is just best left unsaid.

Hi, right here, not a troll, actual fan of Columbus. Nice to meet you. Clarkson has more upside than Nathan Horton, sorry to say it. He'll play 3rd line. Nathan Horton will sit in a home in Florida. Both would make money out of Columbus' pocket since Horton's contract wasn't insured. Jarmo and JD would much rather have a warm body than a cold one. But hey, you could ACTUALLY quote me, instead of you know, "Quoting me"

 

[Rayban*]

Clarkson's contract is way over blown. He didn't produce in the role the Leafs gave him but he's a serviceable NHL player and far from being the worst contract in the league. And if Columbus has an internal cap there is no reason not to do this.

 

[blahblah]

By all means correct me if i'm wrong, but you guys have spent near to the cap in recent seasons haven't you?

I'll separate this out for you. We aren't going to keep up with the recent cap increases. We weren't anywhere close to the cap to start the season. We aren't going to suddenly be over 70 million in cap space next season.

Injuries pushed us much closer to the cap this season than the team ever expected. I saw a chart that indicated that 94% of the season we had, at least, 5 players on IR. That means we were carrying 5 extra salaries for the season and Leopold was a significant add.

 

[Cor]

This deal made sense for both us, and you guys.

However, watching Clarkson won't be fun for you guys. I'm not going to sugar coat it... he's terrible.

He falls down... more than you can imagine, he can't take or give passes, doesn't have any IQ in his game. He was on our 2PP all year long, and somehow only managed to get like 2-3 points on it. Colton Orr probably would have had better results.

The only positive, is you guys will get something for your money. However, that's more a management/ownership worry, not so much for the fans.

 

[EnglishDevil]

With all due respect you just totally wasted your time. It was meaningless based on the context of the conversation. His contract sucks, everyone on the planet knows it.

I really don't need other fans from other teams acting like voices of reason. When a poster from another fan base starts with "I don't get the hate on", it's just a form of trolling honestly. If they want to come in and give scouting report that's fine; but playing on emotions, in which everyone knows the contract blows and the fan base is justified being upset by it, is just going to get hate and is just best left unsaid.

Price of tea in China? Totally irrelevant. Your numbers were wrong. We weren't paying 1.8 million too much based on your numbers. More like 3.5 million per season for two years, based on your estimation. I was pointing our your inaccuracy, nothing more nothing less. You weren't debating with me. You're wasting a lot of keystrokes tonight.

You're entirely entitled to your own opinion, as am I, just because they differ doesn't make me a troll. I came here to try to offer some insight that would make Jackets fans see more of the upside in this trade, his contract is obviously bad but that doesn't mean he's a bad player or that it was a bad trade in the context of the situation. That said, you aren't debating with me either, at this point you're just being needlessly pejorative, so i'll vacate your forum now. Best of luck with the rest of your season and hopefully Clarkson can produce for you guys.

 

[Tak7]

I don't like the trade for CBJ, purely because there's not a chance you are going to get anything near value of $5.25 million over 5 years out of Clarkson. The jubilation amongst Toronto fans is down to the fact that EVERYONE thought his contract was unmovable. It's a boat anchor of a deal, for a player that just hasn't been that affective.

Can he turn it around in a new city with a change of scenery? Let's hope so - he's a grade-A guy, who does tons of stuff for fans and the community.

But you have to keep in mind his age, and his style of play. To me, he looked tired and beat up and in bad physical decline far too often.

 

[blahblah]

Clarkson's contract is way over blown. He didn't produce in the role the Leafs gave him but he's a serviceable NHL player and far from being the worst contract in the league.

Nothing like one of your highest paid forwards coming off two seasons in which he produced like a high end 4th liner. Well for this season, the previous one he produced like an enforcer. He's going to get paid similar to Bobby Ryan money for most of the rest of his contact.

If you believe what you wrote, I have some awesome land I want to sell you. It might be under sea level in the past of frequent hurricanes, but your house would only be flooded every two or three years. Totally worth it! The view is amazing!

And if Columbus has an internal cap there is no reason not to do this.

We worked with the hand we were given.

 

[blahblah]

You're entirely entitled to your own opinion, as am I, just because they differ doesn't make me a troll.

In the context of my response why in the world did you think I was saying you were trolling? You came in, initially, with a scouting report. I was clearly talking about someone else. You jumped in the middle of the conversation and took it a direction that it didn't need to go.

I understand all your points and I agree with quite a bit of it. Having said that you are missing the flow of the conversation.

 

[ca5150]

warm body for a hockey dead body...not a big fan of the deal, but I understand it...like many others, don't get the not getting insurance on Horton, but we'll see what type of player Clarkson becomes here...I worry about having another long term $5m+ contract on the books and what that means for some of the youth coming thru...lack of spots for them*

*especially when Wiz/JJ and Cam for Sharp and 1st happens

I don't think our guys would want Sharp if they value their marriages, haha

 

[EnglishDevil]

In the context of my response why in the world did you think I was saying you were trolling? You came in, initially, with a scouting report. I was clearly talking about someone else. You jumped in the middle of the conversation and took it a direction that it didn't need to go.

I understand all your points and I agree with quite a bit of it. Having said that you are missing the flow of the conversation.

After reading back it appears i misinterpreted who that comment was directed at (it was in a reply in which you quoted me), it's late i apologize.

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

good move for both teams really.

Can any of you other leaf fans upload that Clarkson GIF of him looking around on the ice? CLASSIC.

 

[Rayban*]

Nothing like one of your highest paid forwards coming off two seasons in which he produced like a high end 4th liner. Well for this season, the previous one he produced like an enforcer. He's going to get paid similar to Bobby Ryan money for most of the rest of his contact.

If you believe what you wrote, I have some awesome land I want to sell you. It might be under sea level in the past of frequent hurricanes, but your house would only be flooded every two or three years. Totally worth it! The view is amazing!



We worked with the hand we were given.

Do you really not understand that Horton was counting against your team's cap. Before this one of your highest paid forwards couldn't even dress.

 

[blahblah]

Hi, right here, not a troll, actual fan of Columbus. Nice to meet you. Clarkson has more upside than Nathan Horton, sorry to say it. He'll play 3rd line. Nathan Horton will sit in a home in Florida. Both would make money out of Columbus' pocket since Horton's contract wasn't insured. Jarmo and JD would much rather have a warm body than a cold one. But hey, you could ACTUALLY quote me, instead of you know, "Quoting me"

Well this was brilliant. Trying looking at my posts at the beginning of the thread. Thank you for parroting my initial take on the trade. /golfclap

Man I don't know what I would do without this type of insight. Down here in Ohio we're unable to process such complexities. By complex I mean something that I could have comprehended at around the age of 8... I don't know, that might not be giving myself enough credit. 6 maybe.

 

[RyanOhReally]

Nothing like one of your highest paid forwards coming off two seasons in which he produced like a high end 4th liner. Well for this season, the previous one he produced like an enforcer. He's going to get paid similar to Bobby Ryan money for most of the rest of his contact.

If you believe what you wrote, I have some awesome land I want to sell you. It might be under sea level in the past of frequent hurricanes, but your house would only be flooded every two or three years. Totally worth it! The view is amazing!

Why are you so negative about Clarkson when Horton would be costing the team roughly the same amount, while most likely never playing another game in the NHL? You're just upset that CBJ is stuck with what you hated, and that was Clarkson's contract. You probably loved the fact that Horton never played because at least you could say "Hey, at least our guy had a terrible injury and ended his career, not our fault." But now Jarmo went out and got the very same contract that you hated and guess what, HE'S PLAYING HOCKEY. Management decided he was worth having because he'll actually play and still cost the same internally. You don't think they weighed the options of what this contract means down the line? They'll have the money to sign Boone and Joey, that's gonna happen. Wiz is likely out the door and Hartnell's contract will decline soon. Throw in Rychel, Anderson, Wennberg, Dano, Milano, Heatherington, Collins, Bjorkstrand, this team is fine long term for cash. 5.2-7.0 out of what will be an internal cap of probably 68 million by 2017 is no issue.

 

[RyanOhReally]

Well this was brilliant. Trying looking at my posts at the beginning of the thread. Thank you for parroting my initial take on the trade. /golfclap

Man I don't know what I would do without this type of insight. Down here in Ohio we're unable to process such complexities. By complex I mean something that I could have comprehended at around the age of 8... I don't know, that might not be giving myself enough credit. 6 maybe.

Just stop. You're super negative over a minimal issue without the slightest bit of hindsight. They cost roughly the same long term and that's that. Clarkson plays like a 4th liner? Well we're paying him an extra 1 million over the 2 years you're going nuts over, which I mean, is less expensive then Jared Freakin Boll.

 

[blahblah]

It's been reported that Horton's contract wasn't insured. This move had to be made. He had to go to a cap starved team. The CBJ get back a player, at least.

Wow.. Just wow.

Do you really not understand that Horton was counting against your team's cap. Before this one of your highest paid forwards couldn't even dress.

Ladadeedada...

I clearly didn't understand any of it.

That's just one example.

What amusing is that "counting against the cap" is pretty irrelevant with the CBJ. Horton's salary is what drove this, not his cap hit. I think the estimated cap hit is 74 million next season, we aren't going to keep up with those increases.

We'll see what he does, but if he's not productive this is a huge blow to a non-cap team.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

My first reaction was like alot of yours. Pure agony. Why did we just take on the "boat anchor" contract of David Clarkson even for Nathan Horton who will never play a game?

I get it now, its a business decision and not a hockey decision. At least Clarkson will be able to contribute something. Whether that be in the room or on the ice we'll see. But he's good in the community and for the fans so we'll see if he becomes anything like he was in NJ.

Obviously for hockey reasons its better for us because Clarkson will at least be able to play. He's not worth his contract and never will be, but we will have to live with it.

Toronto fans must not know the LTIR rules and the so called 'salary cap' they have with Horton. Sure, they get to put him on LTIR...the day the season starts. During the offseason they can't spend the extra 5 million they get by putting Horton on LTIR because he must count against their cap until the day of the new season starting or something like that. So sure, they get his cap off when that happens. But its not like they can spend spend spend that 5 million on Free Agents because they have to count Horton under their cap until the season starts. Just like the Flyers will have to be under the cap once the season starts to put Pronger on LTIR. So yes they get 5million in cap savings but only during the regular season.

We'll see how it goes. Clarkson is the most scrutinized player on HF because of his contract and he will bring that here too. We are probably going to kill him for every mistake and brush aside every good thing he does because of his contract unless he does good for a long period of time. It's not fair to him, but that's just how it works around here.

I'm not going to judge the deal until I see him actually play here. I've only seen a few Toronto games since he's been there and he's never really stood out. So we'll see. I hope he can fit in and make an impact. I'm not going to crush him just yet like most of us have on here and all of Toronto fans on here.

I will say this though. I am completely scared what's going to happen this weekend and on Monday.

We'll see how it goes.