Confirmed with Link: Nathan Horton to Toronto for David Clarkson

[blahblah]

Just stop. You're super negative over a minimal issue without the slightest bit of hindsight. They cost roughly the same long term and that's that. Clarkson plays like a 4th liner? Well we're paying him an extra 1 million over the 2 years you're going nuts over, which I mean, is less expensive the Jared Freakin Boll.

Minimal issue? An insured Horton sitting on the sideline on LTIR would have been a minimal issue. If Clarkson produces at his current pace with his salary and we still have a top six RW hole in which we can't fill by adding salary. This team still lost money last season and we're going to lose money this season. No playoffs. If Clarkson doesn't work out we have to pray that our farm system addresses that hole in the top six. If we somehow addressed that hole via trade we probably created a hole in our defense.

With all due respect you don't know jack **** about this franchises situation. Paying 7 million in two years for a role player would be exactly what this franchise needs.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I'll separate this out for you. We aren't going to keep up with the recent cap increases. We weren't anywhere close to the cap to start the season. We aren't going to suddenly be over 70 million in cap space next season.

Injuries pushed us much closer to the cap this season than the team ever expected. I saw a chart that indicated that 94% of the season we had, at least, 5 players on IR. That means we were carrying 5 extra salaries for the season and Leopold was a significant add.

We haven't played a single game (I'm pretty sure) with less than 4 regulars out.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

My initial reaction was like a lot of people. Is this a joke? David f'ing Clarkson? Are we getting Phaneuf as well?

I thought that I heard a report on the way to the game (while I was switching channels on the radio) about it, but it was real quick and I paid it little heed. While at the game, I got a text from the CBJ announcing the trade.

I figured, at the least, that Toronto was retaining the max 50% of salary and that a relatively high draft pick was coming our way. I still didn't understand why anyone would take on Horton.

I was unaware of the insurance fiasco. I'm not sure what to say right now other than John Davidson and Jarmo Kekelainen look like complete buffoons right now. Not insuring an aging, injury-riddled player who was coming on board with a significant injury is beyond the pale.

Enough for now.

Check this out. Date of article August 2014. Source: The Hockey News:

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/the-nhls-10-worst-contracts/

 

[Orfieus]

Listen either no one has said this or it has been buried, but what I am about to say is extremely important!

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF CLARKSON IS THE WORST NHL PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE THIS IS A SMART MOVE FOR COLUMBUS under 1 simple condition,

As longer as Columbus never spends to the cap ceiling this trade is nothing but a net positive for Columbus!

Scenario 1 (the most unlikely): Clarkson returns to form and is productive and worth every penny and is a top 3 forward

Scenario 2 (best case): Clarkson is a good grinder and brings emotion with 10-15 goals and is a bottom 6 player

Scenario 3 (worst case): Clarkson is not an NHL player and is a healthy scratch every season. This is not a big deal because Columbus will never spend to the ceiling and either way they are spending money on a player that isn't playing. The only difference is with Clarkson you have a chance to ice a player.

Now do you see why Columbus went for this trade?!!!

 

[RyanOhReally]

Minimal issue? An insured Horton sitting on the sideline on LTIR would have been a minimal issue. If Clarkson produces at his current pace with his salary and we still have a top six RW hole in which we can't fill by adding salary. This team still lost money last season and we're going to lose money this season. No playoffs. If Clarkson doesn't work out we have to pray that our farm system addresses that hole in the top six. If we somehow addressed that hole via trade we probably created a hole in our defense.

With all due respect you don't know jack **** about this franchises situation. Paying 7 million in two years for a role player would be exactly what this franchise needs.

I am full aware of the franchises situation. Atkinson hasn't worked out. Horton never worked out. Wennberg is still too young. Playoff hopes were gone the second that Bob went down a second time. Clarkson isn't going to be a top 6 guy. You can't seem to get past this contract, its like you think Columbus is paying both him and Horton. Any issue that they wanted to fill through Free Agency hasn't changed because Hortons contract would have still counted to the salary during the off season. Likely scenario is that Joey switches over to become the #1RW, and Boone finally becomes the #2 centre.

Foligno 5.5 - Dubi 5.85 - Joey 4.0
Hartnell 4.75 - Jenner 0.9 - Wennberg 0.9 (or Atkinson depending on your preference of where AW goes)
Rychel 0.9 - AA 3.25 - Clarkson 5.2
Anderson 0.7 - Letestu 2.0 - Morin 0.8
Chaput 0.7 - Collins 0.7

Solid Offense that shouldn't experience the freak injuries that happened this year. If they do happen again, well guess what, no playoffs, and that happens to all teams, Chicago included. And while Wiz is being shopped, I think they desperately need to keep him.

Murray 0.9 - Wiz 5.5
JJ 5.0 - Tyutin 5.0
Connauton 0.8 - Savard 1.3
Prout 1.0

Bob 7.4
McElhenney/Forsberg 0.8

Sits the Salary at $63.85 Million, just fine by me. Wiz's contract goes down after next year to $3 if he isn't traded, AA is most likely released if not dealt at the TDL and if thats the case then expect Tyutin and Johnson gone as well. This team needs playoffs next year, for management, fans and just the general revenue.

 

[GoJackets1]

Was there some rule about not being allowed to put Horton on LTIR because we weren't up against the cap, or am I making that up?

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Listen either no one has said this or it has been buried, but what I am about to say is extremely important!

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF CLARKSON IS THE WORST NHL PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE THIS IS A SMART MOVE FOR COLUMBUS under 1 simple condition,

As longer as Columbus never spends to the cap ceiling this trade is nothing but a net positive for Columbus!

Scenario 1 (the most unlikely): Clarkson returns to form and is productive and worth every penny and is a top 3 forward

Scenario 2 (best case): Clarkson is a good grinder and brings emotion with 10-15 goals and is a bottom 6 player

Scenario 3 (worst case): Clarkson is not an NHL player and is a healthy scratch every season. This is not a big deal because Columbus will never spend to the ceiling and either way they are spending money on a player that isn't playing. The only difference is with Clarkson you have a chance to ice a player.

Now do you see why Columbus went for this trade?!!!

Your assumption about the CBJ not spending to the cap is all wrong. The team is only $5.4 million shy of the cap right now.

Last season, the CBJ were only $2.5 million off the cap.

Next season, Bobrovsky's $7.5 million/year deal kicks in as does Foligno's $5.5 million as well as Dubinski's $5.5 million. The Jackets, with the addition of Mr. Clarkson, will be pushing right up against the cap next season.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Was there some rule about not being allowed to put Horton on LTIR because we weren't up against the cap, or am I making that up?

You don't get any cap savings unless you are close to the cap. So you can put him on the LTIR - you just don't get any of the LTIR benefits

 

[punk_o_holic]

Was there some rule about not being allowed to put Horton on LTIR because we weren't up against the cap, or am I making that up?

Correct but someone pointed out to me that it wouldn't make a difference. If we're not up to the cap, we can't put Horton on LTIR but we still have cap room regardless. But if you're up to the cap and have a player injured long term, you're screwed because you have no more cap space to replace the injured player. That is why they allow you to put them on LTIR to give them some cap space and find a replacement.

 

[pampatus]

First reaction was a shock. Now I understand it. Good trade for both teams.

 

[niflheim]

First reaction was a shock

Nothing extraordinary... Our FFO (yes, not FO, but namely F.F.O ) routine "brick to brick"ing

Can I send these roses to our FFO? Not too casual?

[mod]

 

[Beaninfritz]

The only thing that I can make out of this is that David Clarkson is at least a veteran who can hopefully contribute (but that is questionable).

The Jackets can trade Wiz, Cam, JJ, Letestu, etc for prospects and picks, but having the youngest team in hockey for the next 5 seasons isn't going to cut it. They need some solid veterans and then insert in the rookies so they can learn and grow rather than throwing all the prospects to the wolves like Edmonton has done.

But Clarkson as part of the veteran core...?

If he doesn't pan out, can they buy him out and would that be a better option than what could happen with Horton's contract?

Leafs fan here in peace. The thing with Clarkson, is the whole buyout problem.

Most players earn most of their salary through regular season play. If you buy them out, then a portion of what they'd normally make during a season, counts against the cap for seasons to come. The exact number/percentage eludes me, but let's say theoretically some random guy was making $5.25mil for another 5 seasons. You'd end up with something like $2.2mil per season against the cap for 3-5 years (again, I'm not totally certain what the percentages and years are, it's just a salary and term I'm pulling out of nowhere).

The problem with Clarkson's contract, is that most of his money is made from the annual signing bonus that he gets July 1st every year. I believe it's $4mil. The signing bonus does not diminish as a cap hit if you choose to buy a player out.

If the Leafs elected to buy him out, they would still be on the hook for over $5mil per season for the rest of his contract's duration. Even if you put a rookie with the minimum ELC in the lineup, the team's cap would be even worse.

THAT was the issue with Clarkson's contract. The NMC and NTC was bad enough, but how the deal was structured in terms of signing bonus was the worst thing about his deal. It made buying him out virtually impossible.

I'm honestly amazed this trade happened. But after reading about Horton's health woes, and lack of insurance on his contract, I can understand why your team agreed to the trade.

Really sucks what happened to Horton. I always hated watching him play on Boston (because he was damn good). Hopefully Clarkson bounces back and proves some kind of worth to you guys.

 

[MAHJ71]

Here is the reason for the deal:

Then, this season, #CBJ could not get insurance on Horton because of his back injury. Horton's contract was NOT insured. Per Portzline

This is strictly a financial move. In real world money they owed Horton for the rest of his contract, at least this way they get a player in return. This is essentially Toronto buying their way out of cap problems and us getting a player for the money rather than just paying Horton to "retire".

This.

I had just got into the arena when it came across my phone and honestly I'm happy about it for the exact same reasons outlined above. I'm still surprised we found someone to take Horton and just pay him off...

And to find out all this time we didn't have insurance on him.... so crazy.

 

[BluejacketNut]

The worst thing about this whole mess is that our GM signed an often injured player without insurance. If it wasnt possible to purchase insurance for what ever reason, he should have never been signed for that term! I now have ZERO faith in this GM.... from the Gaborik debacle, to the inaction to this horrible season, to this colossal disaster of a situation. He already told everyone that he wants to trade Wiz, so now he's pretty much stuck with having to trade him since they already pissed him off, so we wont be getting anything good out of that trade since he still has 2 years at a 5.5m cap hit, I hate the fact he has the power to be able to make the trades. Cant put the tooth paste back in the tube on that one. And now i'm hearing $7m on Clarkson????? Nothing is worse for a team who doesnt spend to the cap to spend $5m on a 20-25 point player! Unbelievable....the other worse thing is that this wasnt a dream, crap!

 

[niflheim]

Really, guys who knows our FO mailing address? Our "heroes" deserve these flowers for (MF)filigree job

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Given the revelation about the insurance issue, I understand the trade. Not crazy about it, but I understand it. I think Clarkson does fit well here, but have major doubts about him justifying his price tag. I hope he arrives with a chip on his shoulder and I hope that chip is massive.

The unforgivable to me is the insurance situation. Even if the CBJ couldn't get insurance for Horton's shoulder (which, if I'm understanding it right, seems to be the issue), he'd always been an injury-prone player, had a concussion history and was signed to a seven-year deal.
Insurance of some sort seems prudent, right?

For that matter, wouldn't/shouldn't all contracts be insured to some degree? Tough sport, injuries happen. I would have thought insurance was standard operating procedure.
I don't know what I don't know, but I know I'm perplexed at what seems to be an really foolish decision by the front office.

 

[Bleed Blue and White]

Hey guys, Leaf fan here. Just wanted to say best of luck to you guys and to Clarkson.

As I'm sure you know Clarkson was much maligned here in Toronto over his tenure but I really hope he finds his game with you guys. He has always struck me as a good guy and hope he does well.

I've always liked your team and the way it's built and, if Clarkson can find his game you're even better. I can only hope that my team has a young and up and coming team like yours some time in the near future.

 

[BF3]

Well the Horton acquisition is now officially an unmitigated disaster. Too bad CBJ couldn't just afford to LTIR him and free the cap space, then it would have been fine. Hard money move during an injury riddled, disappointing season.

I guess Jarmo did the best he could given the situation mostly of his own making, more or less.

Hopefully Clarkson can become a competent 2nd/3rd liner for CBJ - change of scenery and systems will probably help a lot.

 

[Heis3nberg]

Here is a good read on Clarkson (warning: advanced stats)

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/1/22/7867635/david-clarkson-is-a-balrog-he-cannot-pass


I am so, so sorry Columbus fans. I wish none of this ever happened and Clarkson was selling cars somewhere like he should be. I honestly hope he turns it around in Columbus.

 

[Fro]

still completely stunned about this...I guess in theory, its a $5m+ low risk, high reward move that we were going to pay that money out to someone...might as well be someone that will actually be on the ice...

 

[BluejacketNut]

Why is this not just a bad dream?!?!

 

[MAHJ71]

still completely stunned about this...I guess in theory, its a $5m+ low risk, high reward move that we were going to pay that money out to someone...might as well be someone that will actually be on the ice...

Exactly, if you think about it like that it doesn't seem too horrible

 

[We Want Ten]

I still think this deal is incredibly short sighted and I completely blame the FO for finding themselves in this position and then trying to sell us that its a good move and we got a top 6 guy out of it. This deal only seems to make sense if we are not a cap team and all I ask is what if we find ourselves to be a cap team in a year or two?

That being said, I hope the guy comes here and gives it his best. I don't blame him for getting paid, but i'd like to see some production to back it up.

Also, can we please quit using Portsline as any sort of source for info on this since he appears to be even more clueless and gullible than many front page posters here.

 

[MAHJ71]

I still think this deal is incredibly short sighted and I completely blame the FO for finding themselves in this position and then trying to sell us that its a good move and we got a top 6 guy out of it. This deal only seems to make sense if we are not a cap team and all I ask is what if we find ourselves to be a cap team in a year or two?

That being said, I hope the guy comes here and gives it his best. I don't blame him for getting paid, but i'd like to see some production to back it up.

Also, can we please quit using Portsline as any sort of source for info on this since he appears to be even more clueless and gullible than many front page posters here.

My biggest gripe/issue/complaint is that we put ourselves in the position of not having insurance. Imagine had we not been able to make this move.... Not the brightest collection of ideas by the FO...

 

[BluejacketNut]

My biggest gripe/issue/complaint is that we put ourselves in the position of not having insurance. Imagine had we not been able to make this move.... Not the brightest collection of ideas by the FO...

This, i wonder who's decision it was, unfortunately we cant fire the owner, but if the owner is making these decisions and not letting the hockey personnel make the decisions, we're f'd anyway. Its not about the trade now, its about the non insured contract. If the contract couldnt be insured, there was no way you sign Horton to that deal, at least not that length